puntagordabob
Well-Known Member
Oh Ok... lol you have to be careful changing gears like that... took my train and tossed it off the tracks and into the river! lol...
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Disney Springs Plans: What do they mean?
- Thread starter WDW1974
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Oh Ok... lol you have to be careful changing gears like that... took my train and tossed it off the tracks and into the river! lol...
dupac
Well-Known Member
Here's my thought. Why not get em for life? You hook em when they're kids. You get them to keep coming as young adults without their parents by providing exciting nightlife along with the parks they've come to love. Then, naturally, they create their own spawn and bring them with them to the place they've always loved. You cover the entire life cycle.
Of course, even if they don't pro-create, things that 20-somethings enjoy older adults can enjoy as well. They keep coming. Children or not.
Of course, even if they don't pro-create, things that 20-somethings enjoy older adults can enjoy as well. They keep coming. Children or not.
Genie of the Lamp
Well-Known Member
Yeah the majority go to WDW to visit/step foot in their 4 (very stale) theme parks. So far it plays a small/very small part for the majority however with this new project at hand, hopefully we at least see it play some sort of revenue roll/mid size part for WDW guests which it looks like it definitely will. Hey, I need reasons to go to WDW and if they aren't going to build anything that's the latest and greatest, why bother going when UNI is doing it now. I've gone a decent number of times to WDW and honestly I've concluded that I have reached an oversaturation with the WDW product. Now that there's decent competition now in the O-Town Theme Parks (which Disney isn't concerned with), I would expect them to take notice and give me what I want and not what they think I want. They darn well should counter attack Potterland be it with Avatarland/Carsland/SW Land/or something else of that nature cause it sickens me that they're pulling out of the attractions business and focusing more importantly on lesser means like interactive queues, DVC's and M&G's (in other words guest experiences). I just wish these projects would have that intention in mind (build a draw) even if they weren't intended to get me to WDW just for that. Just think of what Uni is doing now, building more newer attractions over time leads to more repeat visits and you know the rest. It's also important to know that one decision could make or break a company although one of Disney's size that's not in play too much here. All in all, I just want what's best for Disney since I care so much about them and it sickens me as to how they've (Burbank/TDO) treated WDW parks over the years. I want them (bluesuits) to give a damnation about the WDW parks and not just the numbers on the spreadsheet(s). Kind of goes back to that blue ocean concept Spirit introduced me to and his analogy on entrees/desserts/appetizers,etc which I use/refer to a lot.
You get where I'm going at here Goof?
dhall
Well-Known Member
It's been a few years since I stayed at the Swolphin, but aren't there a couple of places there that have later hours?
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I get what you are saying and I agree. I want new and exciting things. i want WDW to compete with Uni. I still enjoy visiting WDW (despite its issues) but I wouldnt be critical of you or anyone else who say they are done with WDW and are just going to Universal now. to each their own. With that being said, I highlighted this phrase from your post because if they built Carsland or Avatar or even Star Wars it won't be a potter swatter. People will inevitably compare it to Potter and then dismiss the new WDW attractions as not good enough to live up to Potter. Look through the Avatar and Carsland threads there are already many, many posts with those sentiments and shovel hasn't hit dirt on either. I'm not saying its wrong to have the opinion that these things will not be as good as Potter (I happen to agree with that) but IMHO something can be a positive and an enhancement to your vacation experience (like FLE or this new Disney Springs project) without being the sole reason to visit or without beating out Potter.
TarzanRocked99-
Well-Known Member
Yes Kimonos is open late night with Karaoki until 2:00. Bluezoo, Shula's, and Il Mulino fluctuate their closing times between midnight and 1:00 depending on occupancy levels.
dhall
Well-Known Member
If this has already been covered, I am sorry, but I'm old and do not have enough of my life left to go through all 39 pages, but, I would like to say that I don't know of anyone that has ever gone to WDW because of Downtown Disney. Even at it's prettiest, it is just a fancy shopping center. Always has been and probably always will be. It's a place to go to fill in a day that isn't connected with a park ticket and suck whatever extra money you have away from your possession. But as an enticement for a trip because of it, I have a hard time thinking that is possible. Any improvement that they make there will just be an extra and intended to draw you there once you have gotten to WDW, not to get you to WDW. Carry on with whatever the topic is at this point in the discussion.
I actually have, a couple of times. When we happened to be in central florida anyway and wanted a pixie dust fix without paying full rate to the dealer, we've stayed just one night on points somewhere in the hotel plaza and then just walked DTD and took the water taxi up to PO & DxL.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
At DTD Raglan Road has live music until midnight most nights and is probably open later (never stayed that long) and HOB is open until 2am most nights. Other than that not sure there is much else open late night.
dhall
Well-Known Member
I'm not too much younger than Goofyer's dirt, but I remember quite a few substance-aided good times had at WDW in my 20's: sometimes the parks, sometimes the beach at the Poly, ...
It was almost a rite of passage for locals to party at WDW at some time or another. In my case, PI didn't open until a few years later.
Genie of the Lamp
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the response.
I guess the question is then what do we as a community here define as a sole Potter Swatter? Here's what I'm thinking my next O-Town week trip will consist of as I find more effective ways to spend my casholla and get a decent ROMI: Uni- 3 days SW: 2 days Wet n Wild: 1 day Traveling covers up the rest/other day(s) for me all while staying at the Marriot resort they have down there. The way I see it, I'm just benefiting everyone else (in this case the out of town guests and locals at WDW). I don't want to be ehanced, I want to be immersed in my/WDW Property surroundings. That Spirited change can't come soon enough. But I will end on this note saying no matter how you look at Disney Springs, we here will/can all agree that these plans will make this area 100% better than what is currently in place now (Westside was like a ghostown the last time I was there).
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure can go through with the commitment to create a "Potter Swatter." That would require a commitment to theme far beyond what they believe "works." It's popular, but I don't think even Buena Vista Street or Cars Land [re]push the medium in the way done by The Wizarding World of Harry Potter.Thanks for the response.
Funmeister
Well-Known Member
Pleasure Island was a flawed concept in various ways from the day it opened. How many remember when it first opened there were no turnstiles and it was basically a cover-charge-as-you-go type business model? The Cage? (awesome theme but not family friendly enough from the resort's point of view) The Roller Rink? (logistics and legal nightmare!) Once some shady people started perving the island (basically some seedy locals who were NOT the target demographic), Disney wanted to clean it up and purge the trash of the island. This was a good move and "Club Hop Non-Stop" was born.
As City Walk and other complexes opened and were refurbished (see Church Street Station), it was known that the Disney Village Marketplace and Pleasure Island had to do something to maintain market share.
***You may disagree with this next part but it is the truth and may be hard for some to swallow.
Towards the end of Pleasure Island's demise it was a money LOSER and had not posted a real profit for years. (Do not confuse this with profit that was being generated at the Disney Village Marketplace...they were still considered two separate entities at this time.) Desperation set in. Here are the main reasons PI went away:
- Cast Members became their main customers. Guess who does not buy food and merchandise at Pleasure Island? Cast Members
- Disneyana fans (fanbois as some call them). Camping out at the Adventurer's Club NOT buying drinks yet taking up all of the seating around the club and in shows = NO REVENUE!!!
- Comedy Warehouse - *See Adventurer's Club
-Mannequins - It became hook-up central for Cast Members who do not buy drinks as much as tourists.
-Fireworks Factory - The ONE place that made money off of Cast Members because they bought drinks...lol..ironic. Unfortunately it could not sustain business for the entire island.
-Rock & Roll Beach Club - "Hey, let's go see Frankie and the West End Boys in concert at the Beach Club while we don't buy drinks before we head out and see Frankie and the West End Boys perform at the West End Stage!" Seriously?
- Neon Armadillo - Can't drink while you are line dancing.
- BET Soundstage - Was not marketed properly.
- Wildhorse Saloon - ** See Neon Armadillo.
You get the point...they were not making money. The clubs were fun and unique but they were not making "Disney money" so that was the end of that. The end of Pleasure Island was being discussed to my knowledge as early as 1995. Adding bachelor party packages to Disney Weddings was a last ditch effort to try to breathe new life into a possible new revenue stream...it did not work. (A bunch of guys together for a bachelor party...Comedy Warehouse at PI? or THE Dollhouse on OBT? You do the math.)
West Side was the the straw that broke the camel's back. A new bypass walkway was constructed from the West Side to the Disney marketplace. The walkway was considered by many to be the first actual phase of ridding the complex of Pleasure Island. Makes common sense...why would you ever divert guests from possibly buying a ticket (for almost $30) to other money making possibilities? The knew what was happening. Many business models were tested (pricing, etc.) to try to make it work and it just didn't. Around 1997 the realization was made that PI had worn out it's welcome and that the price per square foot was worth a hell of a lot more as retail or restaurant space then the world's largest revolving dance floor.
If they do indeed build Trader Sam's I have a suggestion for all of you out there salivating to get the first seat. BUY DRINKS! SUPPORT THE BAR! BUY MERCHANDISE IF IT IS SOLD! If not you can kiss it and any other unique offerings goodbye within the first five years!
The problem is as others suggested is that Disney does not care even if it is making money. Unfortunately this is real. I can give you one prime example. How many dines at Ohana's when it first opened at the Poly? Anyone remember how many sauces they offered with the pork dumplings and apps? compared to what they offer now? When the restaurant first opened it had 6 to 8 different dipping sauces. From what I can recently recall I believe now you get 2 or 3. Why does this matter? Because they no longer have to spend the money on the extra sauces which is what made part of the meal great. This is also applied to broken effects in attractions...people will still ride it...sad...but true.
Not sure where I was going with all of this but hopefully it gives you a little insight on some of the history of PI. I guess to sum this up I will quote what we heard for years every night..."Out with the old, in with the new, pleasures untold waiting for you...." >sigh<
As City Walk and other complexes opened and were refurbished (see Church Street Station), it was known that the Disney Village Marketplace and Pleasure Island had to do something to maintain market share.
***You may disagree with this next part but it is the truth and may be hard for some to swallow.
Towards the end of Pleasure Island's demise it was a money LOSER and had not posted a real profit for years. (Do not confuse this with profit that was being generated at the Disney Village Marketplace...they were still considered two separate entities at this time.) Desperation set in. Here are the main reasons PI went away:
- Cast Members became their main customers. Guess who does not buy food and merchandise at Pleasure Island? Cast Members
- Disneyana fans (fanbois as some call them). Camping out at the Adventurer's Club NOT buying drinks yet taking up all of the seating around the club and in shows = NO REVENUE!!!
- Comedy Warehouse - *See Adventurer's Club
-Mannequins - It became hook-up central for Cast Members who do not buy drinks as much as tourists.
-Fireworks Factory - The ONE place that made money off of Cast Members because they bought drinks...lol..ironic. Unfortunately it could not sustain business for the entire island.
-Rock & Roll Beach Club - "Hey, let's go see Frankie and the West End Boys in concert at the Beach Club while we don't buy drinks before we head out and see Frankie and the West End Boys perform at the West End Stage!" Seriously?
- Neon Armadillo - Can't drink while you are line dancing.
- BET Soundstage - Was not marketed properly.
- Wildhorse Saloon - ** See Neon Armadillo.
You get the point...they were not making money. The clubs were fun and unique but they were not making "Disney money" so that was the end of that. The end of Pleasure Island was being discussed to my knowledge as early as 1995. Adding bachelor party packages to Disney Weddings was a last ditch effort to try to breathe new life into a possible new revenue stream...it did not work. (A bunch of guys together for a bachelor party...Comedy Warehouse at PI? or THE Dollhouse on OBT? You do the math.)
West Side was the the straw that broke the camel's back. A new bypass walkway was constructed from the West Side to the Disney marketplace. The walkway was considered by many to be the first actual phase of ridding the complex of Pleasure Island. Makes common sense...why would you ever divert guests from possibly buying a ticket (for almost $30) to other money making possibilities? The knew what was happening. Many business models were tested (pricing, etc.) to try to make it work and it just didn't. Around 1997 the realization was made that PI had worn out it's welcome and that the price per square foot was worth a hell of a lot more as retail or restaurant space then the world's largest revolving dance floor.
If they do indeed build Trader Sam's I have a suggestion for all of you out there salivating to get the first seat. BUY DRINKS! SUPPORT THE BAR! BUY MERCHANDISE IF IT IS SOLD! If not you can kiss it and any other unique offerings goodbye within the first five years!
The problem is as others suggested is that Disney does not care even if it is making money. Unfortunately this is real. I can give you one prime example. How many dines at Ohana's when it first opened at the Poly? Anyone remember how many sauces they offered with the pork dumplings and apps? compared to what they offer now? When the restaurant first opened it had 6 to 8 different dipping sauces. From what I can recently recall I believe now you get 2 or 3. Why does this matter? Because they no longer have to spend the money on the extra sauces which is what made part of the meal great. This is also applied to broken effects in attractions...people will still ride it...sad...but true.
Not sure where I was going with all of this but hopefully it gives you a little insight on some of the history of PI. I guess to sum this up I will quote what we heard for years every night..."Out with the old, in with the new, pleasures untold waiting for you...." >sigh<
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Honestly, I can't say there is anything I have heard even rumored that would truly be a Potter Swatter. Maybe Star Wars has the potential if Disney dropped a billion or 2 on a whole immersive land (not just a new ride, a restaurant/gift shop and themed bathrooms) but that would probably take 25 years to build with the pace Disney moves at so I'm not holding my breathe.Thanks for the response.
I plan on being in FL in June and we are splitting time between the beach, SW, legoland and possibly Universal. I really want to hit up IOA but my kids are still too little for most of the rides so it may be a waste of money. We all love Sea World already and we are trying Legoland for the first time.
A nice resort bedroom ...
OK, I'll just have to realize that I am older then dirt and accept that people of my generation would have more self respect then to go to WDW to party. Family atmospheres are hardly conducive to party animals. I'll bet that they hardly ever had a decent wet t-shirt contest or anything.
And that is a shame because my manboobs drive the fanbois mad with passion!!!
You are waaaaay too smart to be a current WDW exec. Seriously!
BTW, great video of MIA WDW Prez George Kalogridis on the Hub where a WDW Ambassador does the 10 questions at EPCOT. All CMs should check it out, if only to see what he looks like.
Pentacat
Well-Known Member
I knew I shouldn't have read these forums right before bed.
I can't imagine going to the MK totally sober again ... and I'm off the Pixie Dust :-(
I dunno ... they are pretty damn close. They are the best products stateside from both companies by far.. ... although I haven't see any discounted WWoHP merchandise anywhere, I did buy some Cars Land merchandise at about 80% off recently!
Funny. Fanbois generally enjoy reading me before bed ... and at least 2-3 more times daily!!!
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