Disney springs not doing so well.....

[deeevo]

I don't have numbers to prove it, but I would bet the vast majority of on-site guests never even consider leaving the Disney bubble.

Agreed... once I am in I stay in unless I need good coffee or meds for the kids.

 

[flynnibus]

And if they do so because they don't know any better, because they have been "influenced" or "manipulated"- then shame on them for being an idiot.

Or you're an idiot if you think you are isolated or immune from such manipulative behavior... because you're not.

 

[21stamps]

Or you're an idiot if you think you are isolated or immune from such manipulative behavior... because you're not.

Do you not realize that this applies in so many areas of life?

Why do some car dealerships give free oil changes?
Why do stores give you extra discounts if you're a cardholder?
Why do museums give their members discounts to certain exhibits or events?
The list could go on and on.

You didn't discover some big secret, people, at least most people, walk in to something with their eyes wide open.

 

[COProgressFan]

I am only on page 3, but it doesn't surprise me that the Marketplace is struggling, the place is a dump. Every time we walk through there, we comment on how decrepit the buildings look, especially the Art of Disney building. I think it's going to be hard to sell higher end products in a building that looks and feels like that place does. And every time they've removed a cabinet, and now I hear they've removed a bunch of the art from the walls. All the money they have dumped into Disney Springs and none of it to freshen up the Marketplace.

Even newer stores like WoD and Once Upon a Toy, all the fun, kinetic elements have been allowed to rot or been removed for something I'm guessing is, "easier and cheaper to maintain." All of the retail spaces that have been recently renovated have left me feeling turned off by shopping. The new Animal Kingdom megastore feels dark and cavernous. Things like moving the Art of Disney merchandise to the Muppet store where pricey items are left to be handled and broken by dozens of little hands. And the CM's don't know their merchandise either.

I can't imagine anyone with real retail management experience would look at how Disney sells their products and the environments and rate it acceptable. And the fact that no face-lifting has been done at the Marketplace other than the Co-Op building, I'm left feeling that it is intentional.

We walked through the new areas on our last trip. The only store we even went into was Uniqlo. It was very bright, airy, modern, and had reasonably priced merchandise. What a concept. The fact that there was so much Disney stuff too was an added bonus.

I forgot we also went in the Coke store, and had the same feeling we get from Disney. It was too small, the aisles were too narrow, displays felt cheap and thrown together. It felt like no one cared about presentation and the retail experience.

Decrepit? Stores being allowed to rot?
I have the opposite feeling. The marketplace has a charm to it. Feels homey and comfortable walking around that area. Maybe it's just me but I enjoy it there over name brand stores no matter how new they look.

There certainly is a bit of homey charm to the old marketplace area. There was a reason it used to be called Disney Village. It was a casual, outdoor shopping complex, and serene lake views (pre Pleasure Island/west side/Saratoga) and low-slung buildings and landscaping added to that.

By today's standards, though, the design of the buildings appear dated, and the physical structures a bit worn. It's quite obvious that many of the buildings have served various uses over the years, with lots of paint and refreshing of entrances, etc, but the original 70's design remains. I'd love this area to stay more quaint as well, but let's face it, it could use some help, especially in comparison with all the new stuff up the way.

The buildings are not falling apart, but they haven't been lovingly cared for either. Especially toward the end, by the Christmas Store and Art of Disney which are both horribly dated and seem stuck in the 1990s.

That said, I've heard there are plans for a next phase to refurbish these areas in the next few years. We know how often future planned phases don't happen at Disney. But if sales really do slump down the Marketplace end, I can see them getting the motivation to finally do something about it.

 

[drizgirl]

Yes, we are all aware of the problems people face. And if I were on a discussion board dedicated to these world problems it would be very crass of me to discuss my WDW vacation preferences. But I'm not on the Famine website, I'm on a WDW vacation site. Therefore I am amazed when people on a trip planning website accuse me of being privileged, as if it it something abhorrent. Isn't everyone on this discussion board privileged?

I am not on this website to discuss catastrophes. I am here to discuss and share my love of Disney with like minded people. Isn't that why everyone else is here too?

No joke! Well stated!

 

[Otterhead]

There was a reason it used to be called Disney Village. It was a casual, outdoor shopping complex, and serene lake views

I have fond memories of the Disney Village. On my first few visits to WDW as a kid, we'd drive down, stay in motels off-property, and drive back and forth from the parks to eat meals in the motel room to save money. Visiting the Village was a way to do Disney stuff on days that we didn't have park tickets. Compared to the parks in mid-summer, the Village was very quiet and relaxed, with laid back stores and restaurants. I remember one store that had record-store bins with just stacks of animation cels and drawings to leaf through -- this was in the mid-80s when that stuff wasn't very collectible yet, maybe $30-$40 each. I once ran into Donny Osmond and his kids at the big wooden slide they used to have there.

 

[Hakunamatata]

The HOB manager.

 

[Disone]

That's funny. I always used to include DTD in our plans, but now I have no desire to fight parking and access issues trying to visit DS. I don't desire to shop at the high end stores. I liked the bus access down near the Marketplace. Now it just seems like a PITA getting to WOD, EOS and the few little shops on that end I enjoyed visiting.

Parking is infinitely easier now then it was for DTD. The 2000 spot lime garage is right next to the WOD. The 4000 spot Orange is more centrally located, but for the Lime garage, park, and go left after you walk out of the garage and WOD is right there! There is SO much more parking near WOD then DTD ever had.

 

[Disone]

Maybe the Magic Kingdom needs a bus stop in Fantasyland as well as the one at the front of the park as well...

Correct! It just convoluted now the way they have it now, just dropping you off in front and then only a train to take you to the east and west sides of the park.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

After experiencing Toothsome's I have to wonder what Universal Creative could have done with The Empress Lilly.

 

[drizgirl]

Parking is infinitely easier now then it was for DTD. The 2000 spot lime garage is right next to the WOD. The 4000 spot Orange is more centrally located, but for the Lime garage, park, and go left after you walk out of the garage and WOD is right there! There is SO much more parking near WOD then DTD ever had.

Yes, someone pointed that out upthread. The lime garage was not open yet last time we were there.

I also said that next time we are there with a car, I would give it a go, but that we would likely pass on the trips where we take DME from the airport and rely on Disney transportation.

 

[Disone]

Yes, someone pointed that out upthread. The lime garage was not open yet last time we were there.

I also said that next time we are there with a car, I would give it a go, but that we would likely pass on the trips where we take DME from the airport and rely on Disney transportation.

Sorry, I read your other posts AFTER. The hazards of 11 pages of catching up

 

[roj2323]

So, is there an American Girl store? I hope not, since that is the only reason we would be visiting if they do.

They built one at Florida mall since this project was announced in 2013. It opened about 2 years ago roughly. http://www.americangirl.com/corporate/new-store-orlando

 

[CDavid]

The idea of waiting 10 minutes for a boat to take you somewhere you could easily stroll in that timescale is just bizzare to me.

Most people do more walking in the theme parks than they would really prefer, and thus readily jump at options to sit down and ride for a bit. Indeed, the amount of walking required to get around Walt Disney World - from the parks to the resorts - is something that never seems to be considered in the design - but should. After a few days of all that time of your feet, it is not surprising that many people balk at the idea of significant walking within a shopping complex.

 

[drizgirl]

Most people do more walking in the theme parks than they would really prefer, and thus readily jump at options to sit down and ride for a bit. Indeed, the amount of walking required to get around Walt Disney World - from the parks to the resorts - is something that never seems to be considered in the design - but should. After a few days of all that time of your feet, it is not surprising that many people balk at the idea of significant walking within a shopping complex.

Yes. Exactly that.

 

[flynnibus]

You didn't discover some big secret, people, at least most people, walk in to something with their eyes wide open.

You are the one who took offense to the comment that it was happening... so make up your mind.

 

[SorcererMC]

Or you're an idiot if you think you are isolated or immune from such manipulative behavior... because you're not.

Why? One doesn't need a PhD to know that a company like Disney uses various strategies (offering property-wide bus transportation) and tactics (new products/experiences) in trying to separate your money from you. Consumer choice - whether rational or irrational - is the intervening variable as to whether the company is successful in doing so.

I'm not entirely sure where the disagreement lies, both you and @21stamps are right. You seem to be saying that Disney consumers are irrational (or unwittingly susceptible) in making that choice, while 21stamps is saying that consumers are rational (thinking it through). Both exist, and often co-exist in any one individual. Neither of you should be taking offense IMO . It's 2 sides of the same coin.

 

[21stamps]

Why? One doesn't need a PhD to know that a company like Disney uses various strategies (offering property-wide bus transportation) and tactics (new products/experiences) in trying to separate your money from you. Consumer choice - whether rational or irrational - is the intervening variable as to whether the company is successful in doing so.

I'm not entirely sure where the disagreement lies, both you and @21stamps are right. You seem to be saying that Disney consumers are irrational (or unwittingly susceptible) in making that choice, while 21stamps is saying that consumers are rational (thinking it through). Both exist, and often co-exist in any one individual. Neither of you should be taking offense IMO . It's 2 sides of the same coin.

You're completely correct.
I gave up, you can't speak rational to people who refuse to look at anything rationally.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting that same results.. That's the definition of something, just can't remember what .

 

[flynnibus]

You seem to be saying that Disney consumers are irrational (or unwittingly susceptible) in making that choice, while 21stamps is saying that consumers are rational (thinking it through)

No.. people are making choices within a system Disney has STRUCTURED to steer those choices and heavily influence them. This isn't just advertising, discounts, etc... Disney physically changed how people buy, stay, and move.. and rewrote the rules to steer this exact behavior. The idea that people 'opted' to not get a rental car for instance is not an independent decision.. It's a decision heavily driven by factors Disney manipulated to abnormal conditions (free long haul bus transport) to make the decision lopsided to Disney's intended behavior. The decision can't be made independent of Disney's manipulation because Disney has inserted themselves into so many dimensions of your trip.

It's not people are not aware of Disney's influence, it's people generally forget how much Disney has actually changed behaviors and made it that much more undesirable to go against the grain. Selling the Dining Plan so aggressively for instance... sure is going to cut into your ambition to venture out and check out a Dinner show off-property when you've already paid for a meal. Or people forget how Disney has steered people into 100% Disney vacations vs what was common just 20 years ago. (steering those extra 2 days to Disney vs exploring, etc).

Not everyone recognizes the behavior shaping these product strategies can have because they steer and influence behavior, not necessarily forbid behavior. So yes, you can uber off property to Sea World.. but Disney has successfully discouraged a lot of that behavior by how it packages its own products. It's like vendor lock.. but vacation lock

 

[lazyboy97o]

You're completely correct.
I gave up, you can't speak rational to people who refuse to look at anything rationally.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting that same results.. That's the definition of something, just can't remember what .

That even the most rational person can be influenced to do something seemingly irrational is right out of Psych 101. The larger irrational behavior is often the result of smaller, more rational behaviors. Choosing lower per day costs is a rational choice. Choosing easier transportation is a rational decision.

You also seem to be confusing observation with personal behavior.