Disney springs not doing so well.....

[21stamps]

A lot of them are staying off property and are there as part of their Disney vacation.

All I was saying is that if DS isn't your cup of tea, and it's not one of your park days, there is more in Orlando to do than just lay in bed at your hotel watching rerun movies on cable.

That's the one downside to Magical Express, but it isn't the fault of the system, it's a person's choice. There are so many great things to do in Orlando! My kid loves Medieval Times and like I said, he absolutely loves Fun Spot and the Slingshot & Vomatron, as well as the Orlando Eye. Our upcoming trip will be the first time ever that I will be in Orlando spending my time only at WDW...it was a tough decision, but there is just so much Christmas stuff going on that we just won't have time for anything else. (It will also be my first time ever in Florida without going to the coast, still coming to grips with that)

 

[rael ramone]

Thoughts:

Who is the primary target for DS? Resort guests arriving by Magical Motorcoach, or locals/outside the bubble guests arriving by car?

If it is outside guests, then having the 'dead center' of the park by a parking garage makes sense. If it is Resort Guests, not so much.

On the surface it would 'seem' that having the Bus depot 'left of center' is better then putting it at the other side. IIRC, before expansion the Marketplace got the huge part of the business. But now, with the bus landing being a 'mini spoke' of 3 sections, and the Marketplace being the far off 4th, it means the Marketplace needs to make up for it's lack of convenience by delivering content that guests arriving via the Magical Motorcoach are willing to walk over to. With the AK now having a 'Emporium' like store, there is even less reason to go to the Disney Store for general Disney plush - every park has a big place where you can get it. You need something GREAT at the other end by the Rainforest Cafe. Guests who work sedentary jobs and live sedentary lives are already doing far, far, more walking then they normally do in a month by touring the swamps. They don't want to do more, especially if it is for stuff that they can get in the parks...

Not having a boat dock near the bus hub reminds me of a ski mountain that doesn't have a lift all the way to the top - the gondola only get's you 3 quarters of the way up, then you have to ski a few hundred yards to get to a chairlift that get's you the rest of the way to the top.

If guests never chose walking over waiting to save time, the Friendship boats would not exist.

Guests not having bags - is it Resort Guests, or Outside Guests? Resort Guests can have their purchases sent back to their hotel (I assume that this is true at non Disney run stores as well).

For non Disney businesses there, it just isn't about sales - it's about Brand Awareness. But Brand Awareness only goes so far if guests aren't buying your product.

So, when some of these businesses eventually fail, who takes their place? Or since they have empty places in the parks, they'll extend that to empty places in DS as well...

 

[21stamps]

Thoughts:

Who is the primary target for DS? Resort guests arriving by Magical Motorcoach, or locals/outside the bubble guests arriving by car?

If it is outside guests, then having the 'dead center' of the park by a parking garage makes sense. If it is Resort Guests, not so much.

On the surface it would 'seem' that having the Bus depot 'left of center' is better then putting it at the other side. IIRC, before expansion the Marketplace got the huge part of the business. But now, with the bus landing being a 'mini spoke' of 3 sections, and the Marketplace being the far off 4th, it means the Marketplace needs to make up for it's lack of convenience by delivering content that guests arriving via the Magical Motorcoach are willing to walk over to. With the AK now having a 'Emporium' like store, there is even less reason to go to the Disney Store for general Disney plush - every park has a big place where you can get it. You need something GREAT at the other end by the Rainforest Cafe. Guests who work sedentary jobs and live sedentary lives are already doing far, far, more walking then they normally do in a month by touring the swamps. They don't want to do more, especially if it is for stuff that they can get in the parks...

Not having a boat dock near the bus hub reminds me of a ski mountain that doesn't have a lift all the way to the top - the gondola only get's you 3 quarters of the way up, then you have to ski a few hundred yards to get to a chairlift that get's you the rest of the way to the top.

If guests never chose walking over waiting to save time, the Friendship boats would not exist.

Guests not having bags - is it Resort Guests, or Outside Guests? Resort Guests can have their purchases sent back to their hotel (I assume that this is true at non Disney run stores as well).

For non Disney businesses there, it just isn't about sales - it's about Brand Awareness. But Brand Awareness only goes so far if guests aren't buying your product.

So, when some of these businesses eventually fail, who takes their place? Or since they have empty places in the parks, they'll extend that to empty places in DS as well...

I think the target market is - Both.

People can ship their purchases home from any store. I always do it while on vacation.

 

[Bandini]

What factual information do you base your certainty?

The HOB manager.

 

[toeknee]

The whole 'Showrooming' thing is a cop out on the retailers part for not having adequate inventory management systems, Example I wanted a specific Panasonic LED TV which 'supposedly' my local Sears had in stock, Went down confirmed that that was indeed the one I wanted. Went to purchase, 'Sorry we don't have it in stock', Me then sell me the Display, 'Cannot do that' 'Why Not?' 'Company Policy' but we can order it for you if you pay in advance and it will take 14-21 business days to get to the store. Would you like to buy a service contract with that?. Sorry no, Buh-Bye.

Ordered it from Amazon saved some money and had it next day, Sears WOULD have had my money if they actually had the product IN STOCK and ready to sell, I even would have been happy with the floor model. When I hear retailers whining about online sales - people will buy in the stores if the store has the product ready to sell.

One local auto parts chain is whining about the competition from Amazon, Price is about the same but amazon delivers NEXT DAY and they take 3-5 days to get it from the 'warehouse'. Who do you think I shop with?

Yes some people will always shop for the absolute lowest price, But they are the ones whining about no after sale service etc - the iron law of economics always rules, you get what you pay for.

This!

 

[danlb_2000]

Ok well, my fault, I didn't realize that Disney locked their gates to keep everyone inside.
.

I don't have numbers to prove it, but I would bet the vast majority of on-site guests never even consider leaving the Disney bubble.

 

[21stamps]

I don't have numbers to prove it, but I would bet the vast majority of on-site guests never even consider leaving the Disney bubble.

I completely agree with you, but not because they are "trapped". They are making a choice to stay within the resort property.

 

[Otterhead]

I would bet the vast majority of on-site guests never even consider leaving the Disney bubble.

It's not so much about not considering it, it's about looking at the cost and hassle of renting a car, getting an Uber, or hiring a taxi to get offsite versus exploring the crazy amount of things you can do within reach of the Disney buses. My group would've loved to have gotten to Universal this past visit, but when we looked at the price of transportation and the tickets for one day there, we decided Typhoon Lagoon and a visit to DS was much more affordable for the ten of us.

 

[21stamps]

It's not so much about not considering it, it's about looking at the cost and hassle of renting a car, getting an Uber, or hiring a taxi to get offsite versus exploring the crazy amount of things you can do within reach of the Disney buses. My group would've loved to have gotten to Universal this past visit, but when we looked at the price of transportation and the tickets for one day there, we decided Typhoon Lagoon and a visit to DS was much more affordable for the ten of us.

Orlando is one of the most inexpensive places in this country to rent a car. So it's really about if someone wants to or not, the transportation part is easy.

I would have also loved to go to Universal this trip, I was planning on it. In the end I just couldn't justify the price of 1 day park to park + express pass tickets, so we're not going. Added to that is all of the Christmas events and decorations as well as "extras" at the resorts at Disney, and I made the choice to spend our entire time doing those things.

You really should try out Fun Spot if you haven't yet..it's a great time, especially with a large group!

 

[Otterhead]

Orlando is one of the most inexpensive places in this country to rent a car. So it's really about if someone wants to or not, the transportation part is easy.

Sure, but for ten people, a one-day car rental would've been pretty pricey. Add to that the Universal costs, and yikes. Suffice it to say that deciding not to do Universal made it possible for us to all eat at Victoria & Alberts.

 

[xdan0920]

I don't have numbers to prove it, but I would bet the vast majority of on-site guests never even consider leaving the Disney bubble.

Does going to USO count? If we are gonna say "theme park bubble" instead, then I'd agree. Also, I have been to WDW dozens of times. Never once went anywhere that wasn't Disney/USO. No desire to either.

 

[21stamps]

Sure, but for ten people, a one-day car rental would've been pretty pricey. Add to that the Universal costs, and yikes. Suffice it to say that deciding not to do Universal made it possible for us to all eat at Victoria & Alberts.

Nice! Yeah, the one day tickets for Universal park to park are crazy..and no way I would do it without an express pass.

Here's a tip I don't think people realize on the car rental though, I got an amazing deal on a car from MCO.. We used ME to WDW when I arrived. I didn't need a car for the first part of the trip, then the day before check out I took the ME to the airport to pick up the rental, yes a bit of a hassle but it really wasn't bad and saved $170 over renting from Alamo or National on Disney property.
I had asked ahead of time if I would be able to use the Magical Express for this, and was pleasantly surprised when they said yes.

 

[flynnibus]

Ok well, my fault, I didn't realize that Disney locked their gates to keep everyone inside.

I guess the resorts completely isolated from everything but Disney and door to door (so most don't have a car) transportation... having an effect of trapping people is a new revelation to you?

It's not unintentional... the entire MYW and Magical Express concept was for this very reason.. convince people to dedicate themselves to Disney's property.

 

[flynnibus]

I completely agree with you, but not because they are "trapped". They are making a choice to stay within the resort property.

Words to study tonight...
- Influence
- steer
- encourage

People's choices are independent, but they are not in isolation. Disney has encouraged behavior based on their pricing, advertising, layouts, and more to make sure that family vacation is a 'DISNEY vacation', not a 'Orlando vacation'. Disney steers the center of the mob with their strategy to lock people up so its less attractive to venture outside the bubble.

 

[Cesar R M]

Right, and this is a Disney Forum. So anything being discussed is a #firstworldproblem

Depends on the way its mentioned.
Some people complain like it somehow affects their entire life and capacity to survive. Hence why the term #firstworldproblem hashtag came to be.
aka to mock those who have minimal problems and explode them like they were going to die.
While in other areas of the world, people can barely have to eat and have huge troubles to just stay alive thanks to wars, famine, destruction,accidents,catastrophes, natural events, etc..

 

[DisneyJayL]

So, the issue is not that people aren't going but the stores aren't selling anything? Hmmm....

 

[21stamps]

Words to study tonight...
- Influence
- steer
- encourage

People's choices are independent, but they are not in isolation. Disney has encouraged behavior based on their pricing, advertising, layouts, and more to make sure that family vacation is a 'DISNEY vacation', not a 'Orlando vacation'. Disney steers the center of the mob with their strategy to lock people up so its less attractive to venture outside the bubble.

Of course they advertise that way. It's quite smart. You can basically make a WDW trip an all inclusive vacation, and in case you don't know, all inclusive resorts advertise the same way. As does Atlantis, which isn't technically an all inclusive resort either. Any one who visits any of these places can spend their entire time on property, or they can venture out. I've spent entire trips only at Atlantis (on short stays), and I've spent others taking a day or evening to go into Nassau.
When I've stayed in "all inclusive" resorts on other islands I always venture out..even though the idea wasn't provided for me on their website, amazingly I actually thought for myself and googled what was around me. - I've never had a rental car on any of these trips btw.

You and others talk about vacationers like they are some helpless morons. I'm sure that some of them are, but it's not Disney's fault, and it's not due to Disney's advertising.

Since you're so graciously offering study subjects, I'll offer you one as well- try learning or experiencing Travelling, outside of WDW

 

[flynnibus]

You and others talk about vacationers like they are some helpless morons. I'm sure that some of them are, but it's not Disney's fault, and it's not due to Disney's advertising.

I'm not going to spend a lot of time reliving this so you can understand how Disney directly manipulates and influences this behavior. It's not just advertising.. It's things like
- tickets dropping to fractional cost per day when you stay longer (to discourage splitting trips)
- bundling room and ticket offers
- free transportation from the airport to discourage people having their own cars (which would make them more mobile)
- expiring tickets
etc

The model is setup to steer customers away from doing things like 5 days at disney, than 2 days at USO, etc... because people start comparing $30 bucks a day at Disney vs $90 at USO (because the day is so cheap at Disney due to MYW).. vs comparing $90 to $90, etc. It becomes less attractive to stay in a Disney hotel, and go somewhere else for the day because the disney park day is so cheap. The ticket structure makes it attractive in 'value' to have as many DIsney days as possible.

These are not happen-stances... this is intentional product design to steer and influence customer behavior. And by structuring the product in such ways, customers who buy in, further lock themselves into the strategy, making it less attractive to go outside Disney. This is by design... and yes, Disney is trying to trap it's guests onsite and make it less desirable, reasonable to go elsewhere while on the vacation.

The creation of the MYW tickets and MagicExpress were plans to steer this behavior.. not simply 'customer perks'.

 

[21stamps]

I'm not going to spend a lot of time reliving this so you can understand how Disney directly manipulates and influences this behavior. It's not just advertising.. It's things like
- tickets dropping to fractional cost per day when you stay longer (to discourage splitting trips)
- bundling room and ticket offers
- free transportation from the airport to discourage people having their own cars (which would make them more mobile)
- expiring tickets
etc

The model is setup to steer customers away from doing things like 5 days at disney, than 2 days at USO, etc... because people start comparing $30 bucks a day at Disney vs $90 at USO (because the day is so cheap at Disney due to MYW).. vs comparing $90 to $90, etc. It becomes less attractive to stay in a Disney hotel, and go somewhere else for the day because the disney park day is so cheap. The ticket structure makes it attractive in 'value' to have as many DIsney days as possible.

These are not happen-stances... this is intentional product design to steer and influence customer behavior. And by structuring the product in such ways, customers who buy in, further lock themselves into the strategy, making it less attractive to go outside Disney. This is by design... and yes, Disney is trying to trap it's guests onsite and make it less desirable, reasonable to go elsewhere while on the vacation.

The creation of the MYW tickets and MagicExpress were plans to steer this behavior.. not simply 'customer perks'.

Of course they were designed to steer people to stay on property. I'm not debating that.
It's not an evil scheme, it's a great plan.
Disney has 2 rental car locations on their property though, oddly enough you forgot to mention that when talking about someone's mobile ability.

What a person chooses to do with their time there, regardless of if spending entire time on property or not, is completely up to that individual.. And if they do so because they don't know any better, because they have been "influenced" or "manipulated"- then shame on them for being an idiot.

 

[Bandini]

Depends on the way its mentioned.
Some people complain like it somehow affects their entire life and capacity to survive. Hence why the term #firstworldproblem hashtag came to be.
aka to mock those who have minimal problems and explode them like they were going to die.
While in other areas of the world, people can barely have to eat and have huge troubles to just stay alive thanks to wars, famine, destruction,accidents,catastrophes, natural events, etc..

Yes, we are all aware of the problems people face. And if I were on a discussion board dedicated to these world problems it would be very crass of me to discuss my WDW vacation preferences. But I'm not on the Famine website, I'm on a WDW vacation site. Therefore I am amazed when people on a trip planning website accuse me of being privileged, as if it it something abhorrent. Isn't everyone on this discussion board privileged?

I am not on this website to discuss catastrophes. I am here to discuss and share my love of Disney with like minded people. Isn't that why everyone else is here too?