'Disney Springs' - Downtown Disney expansion officially announced

[jt04]

I like you JT, I really do, but this was just meant to antagonize me, right?

No. Just giving the other viewpoint. It is never personal.

 

[baymenxpac]

teens, and even moreso males in that age range don't want to go to disney... they want the thrill rides at universal. Disney can EASILY counteract universal in this area by creating a few more thrill rides in each park, or hell create a 5th gate themed more towards this age range... marvel, thrill rides, and put in a star wars land and BOOM... you have just provided a major blow back to uni.

Look at the interest in rockin' roller coaster, tower of terror, space mountain, and everest and what are the average ages

that's painting a very large demographic with a very, very broad brush. it's also letting disney off the hook by saying, "well, what should we do..become like SIX FLAGS?!?!" and all the mommy bloggers gasp and cover their children's ears, and say blood mary three times while hopping on one foot to cleanse themselves of the idea.

e-tickets are gigantic, multi-million (the way disney does things nowadays, multi-billion) dollar investments which are a good way at enticing some in those age groups, but they aren't the only thing that attracts teens, 20 somethings, DIWKs (dual income without kids), empty nesters, etc.

 

[Mickey_777]

teens, and even moreso males in that age range don't want to go to disney...

I don't know about that. I'm a mans man. Always been into cars and sports and even married a hot chick etc...but I didnt' visit WDW until I was almost 13 yet it wasn't the thrill rides (or lack there of depending on who you ask) that made me fall in love with the place. Now, if you're talking about what could initially draw a teenage boy to want to visit WDW then yes I see your point. Uni doesn't really push their coasters in advertising though. At least from what I've seen.

 

[luv]

Uni doesn't have more thrill rides than Disney. They just have better ones. They are true to their concepts. If you're going to spend a bunch of money on a thrill ride, make it thrilling! Easy enough.

I get why Disney makes rollercoasters for people who don't actually like them. But if they made one for people who DO, they would line up to ride it!

 

[ctxak98]

Uni doesn't have more thrill rides than Disney. They just have better ones. They are true to their concepts. If you're going to spend a bunch of money on a thrill ride, make it thrilling! Easy enough.

I get why Disney makes rollercoasters for people who don't actually like them. But if they made one for people who DO, they would line up to ride it!

UNI does have some good thrill rides but I honestly think Hulk and Rip Ride Rocket are horrible. The hulk Hurts and I feel rip ride rocket doesn't fit into anywhere! I also think there thrills are not as well themed as when Disney does them...making it easier for more intense rides with huge drops and loops!

 

[ctxak98]

Disney has no desire to "provide a major blow back to uni." They aren't locked in this mythical epic struggle against one another where one has to beat the other to be successful.

You mention teens, but teens are crappy guests. Teens don't buy merchandise. They don't eat at table service restaurants. They don't stay in deluxe resorts. They don't stay on property, period. They're rude. They damage things. They're often unsupervised. Most importantly, areas that become "teen hang outs" are areas that Joe and Sally Suburbs tend to avoid with their family of five that DOES spend money on all those things. There's not enough incentive to cater directly to teens because they're low-margin guests who can hurt your appeal to the family crowd. Universal just learned this lesson. They were perceived as a thrill park and they were legitimately failing until they introduced Harry Potter as a family-friendly featured land.

ummmm......Don't speak for all teens because just a few short years ago I was one. And I also was a kids once too and I can assure you I was not rude or damage things. I am always respectful to the parks and rides!

 

[jt04]

http://www.vegaschatter.com/story/2...rlo+To+Be+Transformed+Into+Park-Like+District

Vegas is going big into the 'lifestyle center' trend. Although I am sure nobody will be calling it 'just a mall'. Because they are much more than that.

 

[luv]

UNI does have some good thrill rides but I honestly think Hulk and Rip Ride Rocket are horrible. The hulk Hurts and I feel rip ride rocket doesn't fit into anywhere! I also think there thrills are not as well themed as when Disney does them...making it easier for more intense rides with huge drops and loops!

I am not a big Hulk fan. It is okay. My son likes it, though. So I rode for him. I like RRR. Used to love DD before they took away the cool part. Still like it, though. And the Mummy, of course, is a lot of fun.

Don't like BTMR at all. Like RnRc. Like EE. Space is great.

 

[JenniferS]

I tend to believe Universal is aimed/marketed more towards teens and young adults whereas Disney is more aimed/marketed towards kids, tweens, and families. There are obviously cross-overs but this is just how I see it based on offerings from both.

Having experienced both parks, I agree.
There are more high octane rides at Uni, whereas Disney has more classic, low key rides. There are very few rides that an average sized 6/7 year old cannot ride at WDW. Way more prohibited rides for the younger set at Universal.

 

[GoofGoof]

You mention teens, but teens are crappy guests. Teens don't buy merchandise. They don't eat at table service restaurants. They don't stay in deluxe resorts. They don't stay on property, period. They're rude. They damage things. They're often unsupervised. Most importantly, areas that become "teen hang outs" are areas that Joe and Sally Suburbs tend to avoid with their family of five that DOES spend money on all those things.

Although its a generalization, this is mostly true (not sure about the rude part - see plenty of rude people of all age groups). However, as a parent of 2 young kids I can say they definitely damage things too. As I was reading this my 3 year old threw a Darth Vader action figure at my TV. Luckily his aim was way off

 

[GoofGoof]

Having experienced both parks, I agree.
There are more high octane rides at Uni, whereas Disney has more classic, low key rides. There are very few rides that an average sized 6/7 year old cannot ride at WDW. Way more prohibited rides for the younger set at Universal.

This is true. We are going to be in Orlando this spring visiting family and are planning a few day trips to non-Disney theme parks. We decided on Sea World and Legoland. I really, really wanted to do IOA but when we looked at the height restrictions on the rides we realized it would be a big problem, especially for the 3 year old. Can't wait until they get a little bigger in a few years. By then Universal should have all of these new attractions open too.

 

[Tim_4]

ummmm......Don't speak for all teens because just a few short years ago I was one. And I also was a kids once too and I can assure you I was not rude or damage things. I am always respectful to the parks and rides!

That's my point. You're NOT the type that's "too cool for Disney. " The "too cool" crowd is the group I was describing.

 

[Tim_4]

Although its a generalization, this is mostly true (not sure about the rude part - see plenty of rude people of all age groups). However, as a parent of 2 young kids I can say they definitely damage things too. As I was reading this my 3 year old threw a Darth Vader action figure at my TV. Luckily his aim was way off

Sure, but collateral damage from a rowdy toddler is much more reasonable to Disney maintenance than a high school sophomore who draws genitalia on the walls of the Small World queue.

Yes, I over generalized but my main point is that Disney shouldn't change its identity to appeal to punk kids who think family attractions are "gay" or "retarded" (their vernacular, not mine). Have you been to CityWalk on a Saturday night? Teenage girls dressed like strippers and legitimate thugs loitering . I'm fine if Disney isn't cool enough for those folks.

 

[GoofGoof]

Sure, but collateral damage from a rowdy toddler is much more reasonable to Disney maintenance than a high school sophomore who draws genitalia on the walls of the Small World queue.

Yes, I over generalized but my main point is that Disney shouldn't change its identity to appeal to punk kids who think family attractions are "gay" or "retarded" (their vernacular, not mine). Have you been to CityWalk on a Saturday night? Teenage girls dressed like strippers and legitimate thugs loitering . I'm fine if Disney isn't cool enough for those folks.

Agreed. My kids mostly just damage my house and stuff. They are surprisingly well behaved in public. Nobody believes me that they can be little terrors some times.

In general the teen to young adult crowd isn't the most profitable for Disney. I know around my area I have seen numerous teen centered entertainment complexes open and then go out of business. I think its mainly due to the fact that kids will just hang out without spending much. Most likely Disney couldn't really do much to appeal to the type of people you are talking about anyway.

There is a sizeable demographic of adults without kids (empty nesters or those who don't have kids) that is both financially lucrative and somewhat ignored. I think there is a happy middle ground between what currently exists and teenage girls dressed like strippers. A revitalized DTD with more adult offerings can go a long way towards that.

 

[Tim_4]

Agreed. My kids mostly just damage my house and stuff. They are surprisingly well behaved in public. Nobody believes me that they can be little terrors some times.

In general the teen to young adult crowd isn't the most profitable for Disney. I know around my area I have seen numerous teen centered entertainment complexes open and then go out of business. I think its mainly due to the fact that kids will just hang out without spending much. Most likely Disney couldn't really do much to appeal to the type of people you are talking about anyway.

There Is a sizeable demographic of adults without kids (empty nesters or those who don't have kids) that is both financially lucrative and somewhat ignored. I think there is a happy middle ground between what currently exists and teenage girls dressed like strippers. A revitalized DTD with more adult offerings can go a long way towards that.

I agree with everything until your last sentence. A lot of twenty-somethings are just as immature as teenagers, but they can legally drink alcohol. This includes a certain number of Disney's own college program. It might suck for responsible adults who want to drink and dance, but the rowdy crowd is "why we can't have nice things." Heck, even Epcot has some legitimate fall-down drunks during Food and Wine, and those people paid $90 to get in. With free admission, Downtown Disney as a vibrant bar scene wouldn't be sustainable while maintaining a family atmosphere. Maybe if the "bar district" were completely isolated from the rest of Downtown Disney it would work, but not sprinkled in with family restaurants, shops, movies, and bowling.

 

[GoofGoof]

I agree with everything until your last sentence. A lot of twenty-somethings are just as immature as teenagers, but they can legally drink alcohol. This includes a certain number of Disney's own college program. It might suck for responsible adults who want to drink and dance, but the rowdy crowd is "why we can't have nice things." Heck, even Epcot has some legitimate fall-down drunks during Food and Wine, and those people paid $90 to get in. With free admission, Downtown Disney as a vibrant bar scene wouldn't be sustainable while maintaining a family atmosphere. Maybe if the "bar district" were completely isolated from the rest of Downtown Disney it would work, but not sprinkled in with family restaurants, shops, movies, and bowling.

Food and wine is a huge draw and is very profitable for Disney. Try to get a room at An EPCOT resort during that time. The people they are drawing in for food and wine is the exact crowd I'm talking about. If you want to just go somewhere and get drunk there are plenty of bars and clubs all around Orlando you can go to outside WDW. It's not cheap to drink at Disney and they are pretty responsible with checking IDs and curbing underage drinking. I don't see Disney as an ideal place for 20 something's to go just to get drunk.

Here's my take on it. The place doesn't need to be dry because some people can't be responsible drinkers. Having alcohol available for adults along with adult entertainment (music and bowling type stuff, not strippers) does not go against the family environment. The 2 can coexist without hurting each other. What I would like to see is additional offerings like Raglan which combine good food and a place to unwind with a drink or 2. Most adults traveling without kids would be more than satisfied with that. The hard core club crowd and college spring break crowd that are just looking to get wasted isn't coming to Disney anyway.

 

[Tim_4]

Food and wine is a huge draw and is very profitable for Disney. Try to get a room at An EPCOT resort during that time. The people they are drawing in for food and wine is the exact crowd I'm talking about. If you want to just go somewhere and get drunk there are plenty of bars and clubs all around Orlando you can go to outside WDW. It's not cheap to drink at Disney and they are pretty responsible with checking IDs and curbing underage drinking. I don't see Disney as an ideal place for 20 something's to go just to get drunk.

Here's my take on it. The place doesn't need to be dry because some people can't be responsible drinkers. Having alcohol available for adults along with adult entertainment (music and bowling type stuff, not strippers) does not go against the family environment. The 2 can coexist without hurting each other. What I would like to see is additional offerings like Raglan which combine good food and a place to unwind with a drink or 2. Most adults traveling without kids would be more than satisfied with that. The hard core club crowd and college spring break crowd that are just looking to get wasted isn't coming to Disney anyway.

I agree with all that but it seems like the majority of the "Save Pleasure Island" crowd would be dissatisfied with Raglan Road-y places. They seem to want flat-out night clubs. Maybe I'm mistaken.

On a semi unrelated note, my wife almost smacked a bachelorette party at Flower and Garden yesterday when the bride-to-be was throwing a hissy fit at one of her bridesmaids for not "paying for her own f***ing drinks."

 

[luv]

I agree with all that but it seems like the majority of the "Save Pleasure Island" crowd would be dissatisfied with Raglan Road-y places. They seem to want flat-out night clubs. Maybe I'm mistaken.

On a semi unrelated note, my wife almost smacked a bachelorette party at Flower and Garden yesterday when the bride-to-be was throwing a hissy fit at one of her bridesmaids for not "paying for her own f***ing drinks."

That is extremely typical and what turns me off of F&W - the 20-something's arguing with each other. And I've heard worse language! I'm a bit of a potty mouth, but there are at least two words I don't say, both of which I've heard at F&W while young couples were drunkenly yelling at each other.

Your typical alcoholic sitting in a corner bar is FAR better behaved than some of the drunks at Epcot.

The whole "We're so cool because we drink alcohol!" is silly enough. But that's what young people do. Laugh loud, hoot and holler...whatever. But the fighting and language...it's annoying.

I just avoid F&W for the most part. The drunks are happy. Disney is very happy. I'm happy.

It pains me that Disney has brought this drunkenness into F&G, though.

 

[PhotoDave219]

That is extremely typical and what turns me off of F&W - the 20-something's arguing with each other. And I've heard worse language! I'm a bit of a potty mouth, but there are at least two words I don't say, both of which I've heard at F&W while young couples were drunkenly yelling at each other.

Oh I go right for the naughty words in an argument....

 

[luv]

Oh I go right for the naughty words in an argument....

Will you next be telling me the sky is blue, airplanes go faster than cars, I like to swim and that it gets hot in Florida in the summertime?