'Disney Springs' - Downtown Disney expansion officially announced

[lazyboy97o]

@the.dreamfinder, I think your missing the structure's role as a shading device. The major massing in the West Side is along the south side of the corridor. A shade structure interacting with these buildings would be useless as the buildings themselves would be creating a larger shadow.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

@the.dreamfinder, I think your missing the structure's role as a shading device. The major massing in the West Side is along the south side of the corridor. A shade structure interacting with these buildings would be useless as the buildings themselves would be creating a larger shadow.

I understand that the west side needs more shade and this is their solution. But I'm more concerned with this serving as DECORATION rather than theming. How will this look against say Bongos? or AMC? or Splitsville? If they want to theme this area they need to make the space feel integrated. There are cheaper ways to add more shading to the west side without creating this albatross.

 

[ASilmser]

I understand that the west side needs more shade and this is their solution. But I'm more concerned with this serving as DECORATION rather than theming. How will this look against say Bongos? or AMC? or Splitsville? If they want to theme this area they need to make the space feel integrated. There are cheaper ways to add more shading to the west side without creating this albatross.

Overall, I think the proposed concept for the DD area is very exciting (assuming it actually comes to pass). But I will admit that without thinking too much about the design asthetic, backstory, or history of Florida, my first reaction to the whole "abandoned elevated train track" thing was "heh?!"

Even after reading the posts, researching the company line and thinking about it, I'm not sold. . .

Call me a neophyte, but with stuff like this, if you have to spend too much time and effort explaining why something will work well, then maybe it won't actually work so well.

 

[GoofGoof]

Getting back on track...
I thought it would interesting to compare the high line and how it interacts with the surrounding buildings to the High line clone in the west side of Disney Springs. This will also be an opportunity to bash WDI for adding too much backstory to their environments without properly creating the environment they claim to be creating. While @articos has correctly pointed out that there were no elevated railways in Florida, I'll put that aside for my comparison. I want to use some images of the highline to show how it is part of the space. The high line was originally used to transport meat and produce. It had enclosed stops, like the Chelsea market, which have now been rused as large public spaces in the high line park.

Here are some examples of buildings that were built with the park in mind.
The Standard Hotel

Building being constructed with High Line Phase 3

So both old and new buildings have been built with this structure as an artery of the area. From what we've seen, WDI and the Americana firm have failed/possibly not given enough funds to make their elevated railway be an integral part of the west side. It is essentially a very expensive decoration, NOT THEMING.

A trolley would've been cooler IMHO.

A trolley would have been cool.

I don't think the elevated train is/was ever intended to be a mode of transportation or a way to connect buildings. If I'm not mistaken it is not a continuous platform, but rather several section that are not connected that will have the appearance of old, no longer active sections of elevated train tracks that have been repurposed to provide elevated seating areas and shade underneath. I have to wait to see the finished product before deciding if it works with the surrounding buildings, but if done right it can definitely be part of the post industrial, urban revitalization theme they seem to be going for.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I understand that the west side needs more shade and this is their solution. But I'm more concerned with this serving as DECORATION rather than theming. How will this look against say Bongos? or AMC? or Splitsville? If they want to theme this area they need to make the space feel integrated. There are cheaper ways to add more shading to the west side without creating this albatross.

I think what is being missed is the actual theme. Disney Springs is not really themed to Old Florida. It is much more a lifestyle center themed to a festival marketplace which utilizes an Old Florida site. The story is one of adaptive reuse. You're still in the 21st century, not the early 20th century. The West Side is the old industrial part of the town that has been redeveloped to now house a bowling alley, a cuban restaurant, a waning arcade, a Cirque show, etc. The West Side is aiming to be something like the Chelsea Market. There is no need for there to be a connection between the individual experiences and the overall aesthetic because that is not a concern for adaptive reuse. Chelsea Market uses an old Nabisco factory building but it never attempts to give the experience of a Nabisco factory. It's sort of like Paradise Pier or Chester and Hester's Dino-Rama in that the choice of theme is shallow and undermines the ability of the theme to really define the aesthetics and experiences.

 

[jt04]

I think what is being missed is the actual theme. Disney Springs is not really themed to Old Florida. It is much more a lifestyle center themed to a festival marketplace which utilizes an Old Florida site. The story is one of adaptive reuse. You're still in the 21st century, not the early 20th century. The West Side is the old industrial part of the town that has been redeveloped to now house a bowling alley, a cuban restaurant, a waning arcade, a Cirque show, etc. The West Side is aiming to be something like the Chelsea Market. There is no need for there to be a connection between the individual experiences and the overall aesthetic because that is not a concern for adaptive reuse. Chelsea Market uses an old Nabisco factory building but it never attempts to give the experience of a Nabisco factory. It's sort of like Paradise Pier or Chester and Hester's Dino-Rama in that the choice of theme is shallow and undermines the ability of the theme to really define the aesthetics and experiences.

You are getting closer to the truth now. Well said.

Although I disagree entirely that the concept is shallow. It is perfect. Awesome really.

 

[lazyboy97o]

You are getting closer to the truth now. Well said.

Although I disagree entirely that the concept is shallow. It is perfect. Awesome really.

Getting closer? It's the exact same thing that has been said and that you have previously ignored and rejected.

 

[Sneezy62]

Alright. As I said before, you're looking at the concept artwork too literally. The way you're thinking about MK and DAK's trains also doesn't apply. The West Side is not supposed to be a different place, or a "city" atmosphere - it's all part of Disney Springs, which is the place/name that encompasses the entire redevelopment. Besides my knowledge of the project, this is referred to in the official information released. Tom says in the presentation "...the whole place will encompass this transformation." Kathy: "And of course there's the West Side, and the West Side is industrial buildings with elevated train trestle that you'll be able to sit on top for a lounge area. It'll be shade during the day, and it's really a big celebratory, sort of exuberant, spot. So these four neighborhoods really make up the entire Disney Springs development." It is not within a different place or time. I can't be any clearer. I'm not sure what happened here - you agreed with me in your first response and complimented the post, then all of this. It seems you're reading the art the way you want to, so my suggestion at this point is just wait to see what gets built.


Exactly.

Trying to read this thread in fits and spurts. I'd like to thank you @articos for your patient explanation of the elevated tracks. This was the thing that threw me when I first read the descriptions. Where are there elevated tracks in central FL? What you have said makes sense. I must admit when I first saw the concept art I was thinking that the tracks would be much cooler and fit the story better if they were built to represent the old rows of live oak trees that are so common. They could even have platforms for viewing or sipping drinks. I mean who doesn't love a treehouse?

 

[articos]

Trying to read this thread in fits and spurts. I'd like to thank you articos for your patient explanation of the elevated tracks. This was the thing that threw me when I first read the descriptions. Where are there elevated tracks in central FL? What you have said makes sense. I must admit when I first saw the concept art I was thinking that the tracks would be much cooler and fit the story better if they were built to represent the old rows of live oak trees that are so common. They could even have platforms for viewing or sipping drinks. I mean who doesn't love a treehouse?

Quite welcome. Thanks for the compliment. And agreed - mature live oaks would fit the story and the environment, and provide some shade. That's the line of thought they should have been going with... Trees would not be the full solution, but a combination of trees and other ideas would take care of it, and be in keeping with the backstory.

 

[jt04]

Getting closer? It's the exact same thing that has been said and that you have previously ignored and rejected.

Your assumptions fit the West End but the old PI area will be Florida based. West End looks more Chicago, Boston or New York.

Hope they keep the elevated rail motif for West End. Works well with the current architecture.

 

[c-one]

Stay excited. Just for different reasons. Plus, if they end up partnering, it's still a good thing for the community.

I think partnering up with actual food truck purveyors would be a different route for TDO and a welcome change! Haters can mutter about "hipster" and "trendy" while chowing down on a bland generic cheeseburger if they'd like.

 

[jt04]

Quite welcome. Thanks for the compliment. And agreed - mature live oaks would fit the story and the environment, and provide some shade. That's the line of thought they should have been going with... Trees would not be the full solution, but a combination of trees and other ideas would take care of it, and be in keeping with the backstory.

Mature live oaks are extremely difficult to transplant if not impossible. Is there a Plan B at WDI?

 

[jt04]

I think partnering up with actual food truck purveyors would be a different route for TDO and a welcome change! Haters can mutter about "hipster" and "trendy" while chowing down on a bland generic cheeseburger if they'd like.

I agree. It will be one of my favorite aspects of the new West End.

 

[Sneezy62]

It wouldn't even have to be actual live trees, just carry the same form as rows of trees instead of train tracks.

 

[Genie of the Lamp]

I think partnering up with actual food truck purveyors would be a different route for TDO and a welcome change! Haters can mutter about "hipster" and "trendy" while chowing down on a bland generic cheeseburger if they'd like.

With Danny Cockerell fries on the side. In all honesty though, I'm 50/50 on the food trucks. I'm all for more food options, just not to keen on actual food trucks playing a role here in DS. Now I need to get me a churro.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I agree. It will be one of my favorite aspects of the new West End.

WEST SIDE!!!!!!!
Have you actually been to wdw???

 

[SirLink]

Yes, I agree. Each "neighborhood" will have a story about how that area developed. I will be a regular at Disney Springs. No doubt about it.

There is one cohesive story tying in all the districts of the "town", no inter spacial time machine convoluted nonsense just a simple story a town growing. Not separate stories - just ONE story!

 

[SirLink]

Stay excited. Just for different reasons. Plus, if they end up partnering, it's still a good thing for the community.

Actually I would say in terms of the Food Trucks - wouldn't a cool idea being allowing the chefs de partie the ability to run them - just to test the chefs they have on property, whether it costing or being more imaginative food in terms of showing Disney management that food should be unique.

I presume they will have Vinyl overlays to the Trucks as well?

 

[articos]

Actually I would say in terms of the Food Trucks - wouldn't a cool idea being allowing the chefs de partie the ability to run them - just to test the chefs they have on property.

I presume they will have Vinyl overlays to the Trucks as well?

Think it would be great either way. They have a precedent for bringing local food trucks in already, so they have the relationships if they wanted. Or would be a fun testing ground for in-house F&B. I don't know if they're painting or wrapping the trucks. My assumption is they'll likely be permanent cuisine choices for each truck, though. Menus are generally not changed out on a whim, they have to go through approvals. I'm far removed from these though, so can only offer my opinion, nothing definite.

 

[articos]

I think partnering up with actual food truck purveyors would be a different route for TDO and a welcome change! Haters can mutter about "hipster" and "trendy" while chowing down on a bland generic cheeseburger if they'd like.

Great avatar, btw.