'Disney Springs' - Downtown Disney expansion officially announced

jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
Lee said:
I totally see your point.
It's gonna take some substantial placemaking work to tie it all together. The architecture of the West End is...challenging.

But then so will be T-Rex, Rainforest, etc.
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T-Rex is the most difficult. But looking at the model it shows much of the building will be surrounded by new structures and well hidden.

The new bridge looks very modern and is another indication to me they do not intend to carry the old Florida theme of the springs throughout DTD. In fact the concept art of the marketplace is decidedly modern and plays up the fact. It is much more an aesthetic you might see associated with the Contemporary Resort. And there is something similarly retro about it that I really like. Like the West End art work it is clearly not old Florida. There are no elements of mission architecture but it does emphasize the water views. Rainforest works here because it has that retro roadside attraction feel to it. Possibly that is intentional or I am grasping at straws. But the marketplace does look modern. Or should I say 'mod'.

West End is designing itself. They should just go with what it is and make this the "PI" element for DTD. The artwork speaks for itself.
 
articos

articos

Well-Known Member
Lee said:
Since the AC end of PI is on a higher elevation, roughly matching the height of the elevated track on the West Side, I am assuming that it is all part of the same old, abandoned rail system.

I see it as different "neighborhoods", with slightly different looks, but all in the same time/place...the "town" of Disney Springs.
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It all goes back to adaptive reuse, and why WDI is looking to places like Pasadena and the High Line for the inspiration. It's actually labelled "High Line" on the plan, as I'm sure you noticed.
 
articos

articos

Well-Known Member
Genie of the Lamp said:
Here's something from the Disney Food Blog talking about the possible restaurants coming to DS and the 10 highly themed food trucks Lee was mentioning as well.
http://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2013/03/15/updates-disney-springs-restaurants/

Not much, but it gives us at least some clues as to what will come/happen.
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The boards with the brands on them were not actual vendors with signed deals, they are mood boards. I'll also point out 10 trucks will not fit in the space next to Wetzels. Not sure where the rest are going.
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
articos said:
Alright. As I said before, you're looking at the concept artwork too literally. The way you're thinking about MK and DAK's trains also doesn't apply. The West Side is not supposed to be different place, or a "city" atmosphere - it's all part of Disney Springs, which is the place/name that encompasses the entire redevelopment. Besides my knowledge of the project, this is referred to in the official information released. Tom says in the presentation "...the whole place will encompass this transformation." Kathy: "And of course there's the West Side, and the West Side is industrial buildings with elevated train trestle that you'll be able to sit on top for a lounge area. It'll be shade during the day, and it's really a big celebratory, sort of exuberant spot. So these four neighborhoods really make up the entire Disney Springs development." It is not within a different place or time. I can't be any clearer. I'm not sure what happened here - you agreed with me in your first response and complimented the post, then all of this. It seems you're reading the art the way you want to, so my suggestion at this point is just wait to see what gets built.


Exactly.
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No, I complimented you on your critique of the Florida vs Cali mission architecture which is valid. But disagreed with your stance on the essence of the west side. And I still do. They plan to call it all "Disney Springs". Likely because there will be water elements in all 4 "neighborhoods". But that does not mean all 4 "neighborhoods" will have the same storyline. Try as I might I see zero elements of old Florida in either the Marketplace or the West Side depictions. This includes both the concept art and the model.

By the way, the model does show the Empress Lily with not only the stacks but also the paddle wheel. Forgot to mention that.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
jt04 said:
I hate to disagree with you as it never seems to end well for me. But if you are right I hope they reconsider unless there is some element like time travel in the storyline because nothing about the West End says "old Florida" to me. Using similar water elements, lighting features and the train concept to create a consistent theming element makes some sense. But trying to claim the West End is 1900's Florida seems forced at best.

Just my opinion.
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You seem to be missing the part where there is no real experiential time travel and that the inconsistencies have been noted. You're not experience Old Florida itself, just some of its built environment. It's still the 21st century.
 
L

Longhairbear

Well-Known Member
articos said:
Alright. As I said before, you're looking at the concept artwork too literally. The way you're thinking about MK and DAK's trains also doesn't apply. The West Side is not supposed to be different place, or a "city" atmosphere - it's all part of Disney Springs, which is the place/name that encompasses the entire redevelopment. Besides my knowledge of the project, this is referred to in the official information released. Tom says in the presentation "...the whole place will encompass this transformation." Kathy: "And of course there's the West Side, and the West Side is industrial buildings with elevated train trestle that you'll be able to sit on top for a lounge area. It'll be shade during the day, and it's really a big celebratory, sort of exuberant spot. So these four neighborhoods really make up the entire Disney Springs development." It is not within a different place or time. I can't be any clearer. I'm not sure what happened here - you agreed with me in your first response and complimented the post, then all of this. It seems you're reading the art the way you want to, so my suggestion at this point is just wait to see what gets built.


Exactly.
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Just a thought on the elevated train. Isn't an elevated train part of Florid'a history as far as crossing water to get to and build on Key West? My memory is very hazy on where I read this. Am I thinking of another location in FLA where a resort was built by a wealthy land baron of the Gilded Age?
 
flavious27

flavious27

Well-Known Member
Genie of the Lamp said:
Here's an article from Jim Hill I found written 2 days ago talking about what drove WDW officials to greenlight Disney Springs and why the announcement was supposed to happen a while back:
http://jimhillmedia.com/editor_in_c...ountered-at-downtown-disney.aspx#.UUVIqRyG0bA

Not a bad read. At least for me.
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Makes sense, but I think one of the reasons that there has been a drop off is because of how much uncertainty over the plans of DTD and PI since the clubs were closed.
 
articos

articos

Well-Known Member
Longhairbear said:
Just a thought on the elevated train. Isn't an elevated train part of Florid'a history as far as crossing water to get to and build on Key West? My memory is very hazy on where I read this. Am I thinking of another location in FLA where a resort was built by a wealthy land baron of the Gilded Age?
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Train bridges have been a part of FL history since rail came into FL. Have to cross all that water in the state. :) You're thinking of Henry Flagler and his Florida East Coast Railway, which connected Jacksonville to Miami with the goal of continuing to holdings in Key West, which resulted in the over-sea railroad. (In 1935, the rail link was devastated by a hurricane and the right-of-way and some of the bridges were then re-used to construct the current Overseas Highway.) Flagler convinced the state leadership he wanted to develop Key West, knowing there was the real possibility of the Panama Canal being completed soon, and he wanted to control the rail link to what he expected would be an important shipping port.

If WDI were talking about a trestle bridge over water elements, I'd be fine with that - it would look great and add visual interest. However, that's not what this particular major scenic/story element is, and that's why I point out the inaccuracy. They needed shade structure, so they came up with this very creative, historically inaccurate idea that unfortunately doesn't fit the location or larger backstory. To me, you can't do that - it violates the public trust in the story that you're trying extra hard in this case to sell. This idea is specifically modelled after the High Line in NYC, with a backstory of delivering goods to the warehouses, like the High Line did...in NYC. Not in FL. It violates the rules of the larger Disney Springs backstory, and in that case, should have been sent back for revision. You don't just greenlight an idea because it's trendy, cool or easy. First and foremost, don't violate your own story. Tell a simple, coherent story, make it believable, and don't violate your own story's inherent rules.
 
The Empress Lilly

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Meh, elevated traintracks aren't pretty to begin with. I think dear mr. Sotto opened a pandora's box when he proposed that elevated train for DLP MS, an idea that sadly never left WDI's consciousness again.

The thing is, in cities that do have elevated trains, these I think are commonly considered an eyesore more than anything else. They belong to industrial areas, to working class neighbourhoods. The fancy, upscale neighbourhoods have their trains and subways (metro/underground) running underground.
Even modern gentrification and repurposing of elevated tracks (I think the idea originated in Paris, before New York) doesn't really turn them into spaces with much more going for them than novelty.

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G00fyDad

G00fyDad

Well-Known Member
Genie of the Lamp said:
Here's an article from Jim Hill I found written 2 days ago talking about what drove WDW officials to greenlight Disney Springs and why the announcement was supposed to happen a while back:
http://jimhillmedia.com/editor_in_c...ountered-at-downtown-disney.aspx#.UUVIqRyG0bA

Not a bad read. At least for me.
Click to expand...

Okay, I want to point something out here about this article. If it is true that one of the chief complaints about DTD is parking, then WTH are they just shifting the parking? What I mean is if you look at the concept art do you really think that the parking garages give more space? Or are they simply removing spaces out of the center and then just stacking them up? It looks like there will be no more parking at DTD (Sorry, DS) then than there is now.

Keep in mind that I am not complaining about parking. I have had a few issues with it before, but now I just park on the far Westside, go to the docks there, take a boat to the Marketplace, and just shop down the property until I am back at my car.
 
J

Joseph Catalano

Member
Genie of the Lamp said:
Here's something from the Disney Food Blog talking about the possible restaurants coming to DS and the 10 highly themed food trucks Lee was mentioning as well.
http://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2013/03/15/updates-disney-springs-restaurants/

Not much, but it gives us at least some clues as to what will come/happen.
Click to expand...

In Arizona there is a place called Italian restaurant it's owned by Famous chef Chris bianco. He gets voted BEST PIZZA IN THE WORLD at his restaurant pizzeria bianco. But he also owns Italian restaurant. I'm hoping the logo in the picture is the same place as his. He's always on the foodnetwork so with the theme of food network places this might not be a long shot.
 

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