'Disney Springs' - Downtown Disney expansion officially announced

[Longhairbear]

Train bridges have been a part of FL history since rail came into FL. Have to cross all that water in the state. You're thinking of Henry Flagler and his Florida East Coast Railway, which connected Jacksonville to Miami with the goal of continuing to holdings in Key West, which resulted in the over-sea railroad. (In 1935, the rail link was devastated by a hurricane and the right-of-way and some of the bridges were then re-used to construct the current Overseas Highway.) Flagler convinced the state leadership he wanted to develop Key West, knowing there was the real possibility of the Panama Canal being completed soon, and he wanted to control the rail link to what he expected would be an important shipping port.

If WDI were talking about a trestle bridge over water elements, I'd be fine with that - it would look great and add visual interest. However, that's not what this particular major scenic/story element is, and that's why I point out the inaccuracy. They needed shade structure, so they came up with this very creative, historically inaccurate idea that unfortunately doesn't fit the location or larger backstory. To me, you can't do that - it violates the public trust in the story that you're trying extra hard in this case to sell. This idea is specifically modelled after the High Line in NYC, with a backstory of delivering goods to the warehouses, like the High Line did...in NYC. Not in FL. It violates the rules of the larger Disney Springs backstory, and in that case, should have been sent back for revision. You don't just greenlight an idea because it's trendy, cool or easy. First and foremost, don't violate your own story. Tell a simple, coherent story, make it believable, and don't violate your own story's inherent rules.

Thanks, that is what I was trying to remember.

 

[GoofGoof]

Actually I would say in terms of the Food Trucks - wouldn't a cool idea being allowing the chefs de partie the ability to run them - just to test the chefs they have on property, whether it costing or being more imaginative food in terms of showing Disney management that food should be unique.

I presume they will have Vinyl overlays to the Trucks as well?

Food network has some sort of food truck challenge reality show. My wife loves the food network, I personally prefer eating the food over watching people make it, but its on a lot in the background. They also regularly feature a food truck challenge as part of the next food network star show. Maybe ABC can work this into a reality show too. Has to be more entertaining than the bachelor season 54.

 

[articos]

Thanks, that is what I was trying to remember.

Anytime.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Back when this area was just the Marketplace, it didn't need a backstory to make it a more worthwhile experience than Disney Springs sounds like it will be.

That's modern day Walt Disney Imagineering for ya!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yes, but that's the double edged sword Disney faces. If you skip any backstory or overall theme for the area and just build a freakin' mall then a lot of people would complain that it's nothing different than what they have back home and not unique at all and say they expect better from Disney. If you try to have a theme and a backstory and make it more than just a bunch of generic buildings housing stores and restaurants people complain that the backstory is lame. Either way you can't please everyone. I prefer some consistent theming in the overall area and IMHO the backstory works to help create the environment. It's not perfect, but it's much better than a generic mall.

First, in this case the backstory is incredibly weak. It is trying to explain something, adaptive reuse, that is already occurring around the country. Why are fake old buildings holding trendy shops more immersive, more "Disney," than real old buildings holding trendy shops?

Second, Disney could just create a great design. They could accept this is a lifestyle center and, instead of pretending it is a festival marketplace, make it the best lifestyle center. Make every other one look like an out of date, run down mall. Go for the purity of design. This is what was done with what is now the Marketplace and I think a big part of its continued success is its good design. There is plenty of great architecture in the world that is not themed. No reason to be generic.

 

[GoofGoof]

Without the backstory and "theming" (and I use that term loosely), Disney Springs is really not going to be all that different from a generic mall in terms of the types of stores you can find there. Nothing of any significance is going to be built in the theme parks themselves for the foreseeable future, so the backstory is there just to impress the rubes and the Lifestylers while the parks continue to stagnate. Back when this area was just the Marketplace, it didn't need a backstory to make it a more worthwhile experience than Disney Springs sounds like it will be.

Since they still haven't released a vendor list I can't really agree or disagree that the stores will be the equivalent of a generic mall. Based on the concept art and assuming it actually gets built this time it will be a lot better than any mall near my house IMHO.

You're mixing up 2 different points. I never said anything about preferring this project over building something in the parks (I don't and I haven't heard anyone who has said that). I said this before but I'll repeat it again. It doesn't have to be black and white. It's possible to have issues with lots of things related to WDW as far as the parks not getting new attractions, declines in maintenance, decreased hours, etc and still think this project is a good thing, a step in the right direction. Approving of the look of this one project doesn't mean that I'm giving my blanket approval of all things done at WDW. It's possible for me to judge things independently and to think some things are well done while others are lacking. Whether its this, new bathrooms, FLE, etc... I can view the positives and be impressed along with the negatives. I guess that makes me a rube since I'm not a Disney Life styler.

 

[GoofGoof]

First, in this case the backstory is incredibly weak. It is trying to explain something, adaptive reuse, that is already occurring around the country. Why are fake old buildings holding trendy shops more immersive, more "Disney," than real old buildings holding trendy shops?

Second, Disney could just create a great design. They could accept this is a lifestyle center and, instead of pretending it is a festival marketplace, make it the best lifestyle center. Make every other one look like an out of date, run down mall. Go for the purity of design. This is what was done with what is now the Marketplace and I think a big part of its continued success is its good design. There is plenty of great architecture in the world that is not themed. No reason to be generic.

I agree that it's not the only option and there are probably other better options, but this is the one they went with and I don't think it's bad. I'm not blown away by it, but it's not terrible either. I will say that most Disney guests expect a backstory and a theme. I hear over and over how people don't like the contemporary resort because it lacks a good theme. I know it's not necessarily great architecture either, but people expect a theme and a backstory.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I agree that it's not the only option and there are probably other better options, but this is the one they went with and I don't think it's bad. I'm not blown away by it, but it's not terrible either. I will say that most Disney guests expect a backstory and a theme. I hear over and over how people don't like the contemporary resort because it lacks a good theme. I know it's not necessarily great architecture either, but people expect a theme and a backstory.

How many people wandering around Downtown Disney are wondering about the backstory? They're there for the retail. The one part that did have one had it whittled away over the years before it was all shut down.

 

[Wisconsin]

Anyone remember the backstory for PI when it opened? IIRC, it centered around Merriweather Pleasure, a shipping magnate from the turn of the last century. PI was his land and each building had it's own backstory. I recall the revolving dance floor in Mannequinn's was from his factory located in that building. The Portobello Yacht Club was his residence, his greenhouse became Neon Armadillo, etc. I believe Raglan was originally a food court...

 

[bcalltimandanna]

What if they had an AC type bar or restaurant themed around an "Old Florida" cast of characters? Think Flagler/Rockefeller types. With some sort of time travel element.

 

[Genie of the Lamp]

It seems in addition to Meg, Tom, and Kathy being present at the presentation announcement on Thursday, Bruce Vaughn was their as well.

 

[GoofGoof]

How many people wandering around Downtown Disney are wondering about the backstory? They're there for the retail. The one part that did have one had it whittled away over the years before it was all shut down.

You are probably right that most people don't care or even know about the backstory. I think they mostly use the story to help guide the overall theming of the areas not as an attempt to necessarily tell people a story. I still prefer some theme (even if its not historically accurate) to the area over a generic mall, but again that's just my opinion and I may be in the minority.

 

[GoofGoof]

I'm not trying to argue or put words in your mouth; I'm just offering my opinion as to why Disney is going to such trouble to create a backstory where it is not needed. I agree with what @lazyboy97o has been saying. DTD/Disney Springs is a shopping mall. There is no expectation of a theme or backstory, and the backstory they have concocted is pretty flimsy. That is all.

OK. We can agree to disagree on this. I definitely prefer some theme to the place over a generic mall, but I can respect your opinion that its just a mall and doesn't need any.

 

[JEANYLASER]

I don't know! I think Disney Springs it's a great name for Downtown Disney! What about World of Disney they will expansion of World of Disney.

 

[luv]

When I think "Springs", I think, "Pretty." Open space, grass, trees, light colors. I do not think "train tracks." Leave the train tracks with the horrible Wharf idea. What is visually appealing about industrial things? Nothing.

Don't much care if its historically accurate or not, but very much enjoy the idea of shopping somewhere pretty. THAT would be a bonus over amazon.

I'm a fan of Orlando food trucks. For people who are unfamiliar, they are very different than your typical city dirty-dog carts or carnival-type fare. They may be a fad, but I like them.

 

[Funmeister]

I have a feeling that the food trucks will be real trucks as much as the "newer" ticket booths for PI were real train cars.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Mature live oaks are extremely difficult to transplant if not impossible. Is there a Plan B at WDI?

[pesky & mean]
jt, you know, you really ought to try to make your first visit to WDW one of these days. They have this park, the MK, and smack dab in the middle of its best land stands a massive live oak that Disney transplanted there as a fully grown, 40 ton, 100 year old mature oak. With the technology of 42 years ago.
[/pesky & mean ]

 

[GoofGoof]

[pesky & mean]
jt, you know, you really ought to try to make your first visit to WDW one of these days. They have this park, the MK, and smack dab in the middle of its best land stands a massive live oak that Disney transplanted there as a fully grown, 100 year old mature oak. With the technology of 41 years ago.
[/pesky & mean ]

They must have missed that one when they were ridding the MK of its trees. Good thing the execs never actually visit the parks or they may have caught that mistake

 

[The Empress Lilly]

They must have missed that one when they were ridding the MK of its trees. Good thing the execs never actually visit the parks or they may have caught that mistake

Heaven forbid they ever cut that tree!

It is essential to Liberty Square! For aesthetics - LS must feel old, leafy and natural, early colonial. Plus the tree so nicely fills in the square, that all too wide pathway. And secondly, for Walt - it was Walt himself who envisioned a Liberty Square with a Liberty Tree in the middle. He couldn't realise it in DL. But his brother could. In the park he dedicated to Walt's memory, the MK.

 

[Nmoody1]

It seems in addition to Meg, Tom, and Kathy being present at the presentation announcement on Thursday, Bruce Vaughn was their as well.

is it me, or do the three of 'em in this picture look like they are thinking 'lets hope this actually works and they buy into the hype that this new mall paints over the fact we are building hardly anything out here in Florida'

I bet Meg is yearning for a project like Carsland. Distant memory!