'Disney Springs' - Downtown Disney expansion officially announced

[articos]

Does anyone know if Pollo Campero will be moving locations, or not have a location in Disney Springs at all?

It has also been said that Disney Pin Traders is being knocked down, but I would assume that it will simply move to a new building...

Don't think Campero's future has been set yet, but not sure.

 

[articos]

I didn't know whether they would just go down to 1 location (Marketplace) or whether they would move to a new location - if Wetzels is moving, I was guess that Haagen Dazs is moving as well?

Likely yes, HD will move with as they're both under the same franchise there. I don't believe they'll go to only having the Marketplace kiosk - will relocate to another storefront nearby.

 

[djlaosc]

Don't think Campero's future has been set yet, but not sure.

Thanks, it wouldn't bother me if it went - the food was fine, but I wouldn't necessarily miss it if it was gone, but it seemed to be the only one of the 3 or 4 shops now known to be closing that didn't have anything known about its future (Captain Jacks is going completely, Pin Traders & Wetzels/Haagen Dazs will likely just be moving, Pollo Campero = ?????)

 

[lazyboy97o]

So how do the food trucks fit in? When I think of food trucks, it is at a temporary event, intended to be mobile so they can moved to another temporary roadside event. Almost like a tacky roadside carnival, it reminds me too much of Dino-Rama at AK. It is good for temporary use but not a planned permanent location.

I think it is fitting with the comments by @articos about Imagineers just trying to be trendy. Food trucks and food truck parks are in right now, so in they go. Just like adaptive reuse being trendy and being part of the concepts behind Pleasure Island, Hyperion Wharf and now Disney Springs.

 

[dcibrando]

Please tell me Wolfgang pucks express is staying????

 

[GoofGoof]

When I think of "old" Florida, I always think about food trucks. Is it part of the theming or an cheap alternative?

I think it works as part of the theming. If West side is supposed to be industrial with abandoned elevated train tracks and warehouse style buildings it fits. I think it's a better way to introduce a lot of cheaper counter service food than building a generic food cart. Gourmet food trucks can have really great food too. I think a lot of people think of the generic stainless steel looking lunch trucks with soggy hot dogs and basic snacks. I am hoping for something more sophisticated and trendy. Here's an older WSJ article about the type of trendy lunch trucks they could add.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204456604574201934018170554.html

 

[jt04]

So how do the food trucks fit in? When I think of food trucks, it is at a temporary event, intended to be mobile so they can moved to another temporary roadside event. Almost like a tacky roadside carnival, it reminds me too much of Dino-Rama at AK. It is good for temporary use but not a planned permanent location.

West Side appears to me to be a revitalized urban center/post industrial working class "neighborhood'. A mix of old industrial buildings (DQ) and modernist architecture (Cirque) and revitalized structures (the updated 50's/60's bowling lanes and movie theater) and a bit of the old (HoB) and repurposed elevated rails. Since it is implied this is a vibrant city center that mixes work, entertainment and restaurants than food trucks fit in perfectly. Like I said, it is a way of offering popular street food without the stereotypical food stalls. Perfect!

 

[articos]

Thanks, it wouldn't bother me if it went - the food was fine, but I wouldn't necessarily miss it if it was gone, but it seemed to be the only one of the 3 or 4 shops now known to be closing that didn't have anything known about its future (Captain Jacks is going completely, Pin Traders & Wetzels/Haagen Dazs will likely just be moving, Pollo Campero = ?????)

Of any of the locations at DtD, I think Pollo Campero is the most questionable. It's known to Latin America, but it's still fairly unknown to US consumers. If they wanted an international chain, a Brazilian operation would make more sense. My personal opinion is it was an odd choice to allow a space at DtD.

Please tell me Wolfgang pucks express is staying????

Puck isn't going anywhere.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Don't think Campero's future has been set yet, but not sure.

Im hearing the same thing. Not 100% determined yet.

 

[TalkingHead]

Kathy has responsibility that runs the overall portfolio of the FL property, including Springs and others. She is the principal from WDI on Springs. In the hierarchy, she is beneath Eric, who is SVP to Kathy's EVP, but Eric's portfolio concentrates on the parks. Simple, right? I like KM a lot, and I think she's one of the best people to execute this project in the industry today. She's a truly creative producer.

This brings me to some thoughts...

I do think the comparison to Old Town Pasadena is apt, except it's also completely wrong. This is a problem with today's (young, inexperienced or outsourced, underpaid) California WDI designers. (Not referring to Kathy here) They're too insular and "Cali"/trend oriented. If they had done more research, they'd have realized - as someone else pointed out here - their version of Old Florida, based on the artwork so far, is wrong in a lot of ways. In this case, we have a group of California designers who are looking primarily at the things in their backyard that they go to every day as their frame of reference. But California isn't Florida.

Old Town Pasadena is great if you want to think of it as a shopping/dining/bar district that is all adaptive reuse. I love Old Town, and go often. One of my favorite places to hang out in Southern California. But...it's an organic reuse, that grew over time, and even there, it doesn't feel authentic all the time. And...it's a normal shopping district, with a Gap and an Apple Store. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not "Disney".

I'm noticing the designers put a lot of Spanish and Craftsman architecture in, and they're doing talking points about the architecture choices, thinking that's "Old Florida". Nope. Take a drive, guys. Old Florida isn't Pasadena or Old Town San Diego or Americana. If you're looking for turn of the century winter resort towns that grew up around springs or Old Florida styles, go look around Winter Park or Mount Dora or Thornton Park, or even parts of downtown Orlando. (Also: Ormond Beach, Deltona, Port Orange, Cedar Key, Fort Myers, Lake Worth, Winter Haven...you know, the towns your "town" is supposedly based on.) Because your architecture of Spanish Med and Craftsman were not the prevalent architectures in those towns. FL had more Bungalow than Craftsman, and there is a difference. Spanish was around, but not prevalent in the early 1900s. FL had brick warehouses, but also a lot of plantation style, frame vernacular and other more common FL architecture. Not necessarily the buildings in the concept art.

Also: when the WDI team needed to solve a problem - in this case, shade structure - they had a bright idea: an abandoned elevated rail trestle! It's brilliant, and has been used to great effect in NYC with the High Line, which also has been a very "talked about" design-trend adaptable reuse story (very trendy!) that they're excited to "pay homage" (steal) and use in their story. (Elevated abandoned rail trestles are cool!) Great...it takes care of shade, it looks cool, the guests will talk about it, colleagues will talk about it...except Florida didn't have elevated rail trestles in small or large towns during that time frame. One, there wasn't a need, and two, FL has soft sandy ground and it would have been prohibitively expensive, especially in a sleepy FL "spring" town. I'm not saying don't do it...it does look cool, and if you want to fictionalize a scene, fine. But don't force it into a backstory that you're trying to base on "reality" when it doesn't work, based on the history. Especially if you don't need the backstory in the first place. I'll reserve final judgement til the place is built, but I firmly stand by this is a case where the story actually gets in the way. And yes, I know I'm nit-picking, and it will be beautiful and a lovely, completely fictional place to spend an afternoon when its done. (Grown from a very real historical place, the Village Shopping Center.) The base layer to all of this is this: Disney is looking at this as an outdoor lifestyle center. Nothing more, nothing less. They like to think that because they're Disney, it will automatically be better than anything else because it has story and will be pretty. I hate to say it, but in this case, others have beat them to the punch, and it won't be better just because the brand wants it to be. Which isn't the Disney we want, but it's the Disney we're getting circa 2013. But this is one project. There are others in the pipeline that will be great. And this is a heckuva lot better than Hyperion Wharf.

Thanks for saying what I was thinking but was too lazy to type out.

For my money Cedar Key is the best example of Old Florida that I've found. I imagine it's what they other Keys were like before they were developed and resort-ified (new word alert).

Glad too you pointed out the error of the elevated train. Again, not sure why they think the shopping area needs a backstory. Just make it an enjoyable, coherently-designed place. But I guess that kind of thinking doesn't fill up Official Blog posts and PR statements. Did anyone see the Staggs quote in the Sentinel claiming the "Old Florida" theme is a tribute to Walt's parents meeting in a small town in Central Florida (a ghost town in Lake County)?

What a fitting tribute to his puritanical, agrarian family roots...a dining, shopping, drinking, and entertainment district.

Funny how much they'll spin to try to placate the fanboys.

 

[djlaosc]

Of any of the locations at DtD, I think Pollo Campero is the most questionable. It's known to Latin and South America, but it's still fairly unknown to US consumers. My personal opinion, it was an odd choice to stick in at DtD.

Yeah, I would agree that it was an odd choice for Downtown Disney - the only thing I could think of is that this was going to be a testing location/launching pad for other locations in the US.

But, Wikipedia (I know) states that they opened their first US location in LA in 2002, which had $1million sales in first 47 days, and there are now 50 locations in the US, and overall average sales in the U.S. average $1.9 million per location, and they have been opening outlets in Walmarts since 2008 - however, none of the links to "prove" this work, so who knows if it's true or not. Their website has 3 locations in Florida.

From a quick Google search, it seems that they may be quite successful in the US, so it may not actually be odd that they opened in Downtown Disney after all...

 

[trr1]

Don't think Campero's future has been set yet, but not sure.

I think it would be determined by length the lease was signed for wouldn't it?

 

[articos]

Thanks for saying what I was thinking but was too lazy to type out.

For my money Cedar Key is the best example of Old Florida that I've found. I imagine it's what they other Keys were like before they were developed and resort-ified (new word alert).

Glad too you pointed out the error of the elevated train. Again, not sure why they think the shopping area needs a backstory. Just make it an enjoyable, coherently-designed place. But I guess that kind of thinking doesn't fill up Official Blog posts and PR statements. Did anyone see the Staggs quote in the Sentinel claiming the "Old Florida" theme is a tribute to Walt's parents meeting in a small town in Central Florida (a ghost town in Lake County)?

What a fitting tribute to his puritanical, agrarian family roots...a dining, shopping, drinking, and entertainment district.

Funny how much they'll spin to try to placate the fanboys.

Aha. You're the person whom I was referring to in my post, but I was too lazy to go back through all the posts to find you. Thank YOU. And exactly.

 

[c-one]

So I'm assuming the food trucks themselves won't be permanent, because, duh, they're food trucks, but there will be a permanent place where food trucks will hang out? I love the idea of bringing in reputable food trucks to sling food at the new DTD. Not sure what the Orlando food truck scene is like but if it's anything like NY or Boston or Detroit or Portland... it's really fantastic food for cheap. Beats the everliving snot out of any quick-service place.

 

[articos]

I think it would be determined by length the lease was signed for wouldn't it?

I believe Campero had a short lease. Also, there are all sorts of outs in Disney contracts. If a location isn't working, the company can and will boot the operating partner. (Also, when McDonalds wasn't renewed in that location, Disney knew that building may be going.)

 

[jt04]

Thanks for saying what I was thinking but was too lazy to type out.

For my money Cedar Key is the best example of Old Florida that I've found. I imagine it's what they other Keys were like before they were developed and resort-ified (new word alert).

Glad too you pointed out the error of the elevated train. Again, not sure why they think the shopping area needs a backstory. Just make it an enjoyable, coherently-designed place. But I guess that kind of thinking doesn't fill up Official Blog posts and PR statements. Did anyone see the Staggs quote in the Sentinel claiming the "Old Florida" theme is a tribute to Walt's parents meeting in a small town in Central Florida (a ghost town in Lake County)?

What a fitting tribute to his puritanical, agrarian family roots...a dining, shopping, drinking, and entertainment district.

Funny how much they'll spin to try to placate the fanboys.

Disagree. There is no error with the "elevated" train as it will not be in the springs area. Articos now realizes that assumption was based on false rumors about the west side. You are one of the last hold-outs.

 

[articos]

So I'm assuming the food trucks themselves won't be permanent, because, duh, they're food trucks, but there will be a permanent place where food trucks will hang out? I love the idea of bringing in reputable food trucks to sling food at the new DTD. Not sure what the Orlando food truck scene is like but if it's anything like NY or Boston or Detroit or Portland... it's really fantastic food for cheap. Beats the everliving snot out of any quick-service place.

Keeping in mind, Disney is not inviting local food trucks in. They're having them built. There might be deals being structured to have local operators and a profit share, but again, I don't know. But this is not Disney asking local business to come be a part of Disney Springs. Disney is keeping a firm grasp on things.

 

[scpergj]

Springs is purposefully not based on St. Augustine, although St. Augustine is the original Old Florida. They are going for a specific Old Florida based on the small towns like Winter Haven that sprang up around water timed around the mid-late 1800s-early 1900s.. And the Spanish influence in the art is not St. Augustine influence. The Flagler brick could and should definitely be used more, however.

Everyone should take a drive to St. Augustine at least once.

We're there pretty regularly...proposed to my wife while having a picnick on the grass outside the Castillo de San Marcos. Yet another reason I love living here in north Florida...

 

[articos]

Disagree. There is no error with the "elevated" train as it will not be in the springs area. Articos now realizes that assumption was based on false rumors about the west side. You are one of the last hold-outs.

Articos reminds me of "ReDis".

Wait, what? No, I didn't say that. And I'm not working off of rumors. The elevated trestle does not make sense in the context of the story. The West Side is still a part of the story. And the West Side will get some retheming to bring it into the story. Read back on some of my other replies.

Who or what is "ReDis"?

 

[jt04]

Oooohhhh.....them's fightin' words...

You should be pretty happy right now. I think West End will see the vibrant nightlife you want on property. Now you just got to convince the mouse to give you an AC somewhere on property.