'Disney Springs' - Downtown Disney expansion officially announced

[djlaosc]

Yes, but there are all of FOUR TopShops in the US, so that is fairly unique for most US visitors

Yes, I am aware that there are 4 Topshops in the US (as well as selling their clothes in 19 Nordstroms), and have mentioned that in previous threads on the subject - I'm just saying that that will be one of the shops that likely won't be a big draw for UK Guests (same as I mentioned Superdry, which is also British), unless the prices are cheaper than over here - however, I understand (and have already said) that they could be a big deal for US customers, in the same way that some of the US's everyday brands could be of interest to us!

I'm not saying "no to Topshop" - just saying that "Topshop to Brits is no big deal" - same way that others are complaining about the possibility of US stores that are everywhere could be going into Disney Springs...

 

[montyz81]

Did I see a "Friendship" boat in the renderings? I have to ask, will there be new waterways built to Epcot and HS? I can't see the Friendship boat going to the resorts. If I think of where they need to go, there isn't really much space for them to turn around (thinking about Port Orleans: Riverside). I am not sure about Key West.

 

[GLaDOS]

Did I see a "Friendship" boat in the renderings? I have to ask, will there be new waterways built to Epcot and HS? I can't see the Friendship boat going to the resorts. If I think of where they need to go, there isn't really much space for them to turn around (thinking about Port Orleans: Riverside). I am not sure about Key West.

I think it was just an artist taking liberties. I wouldn't look into it too far.

 

[dupac]

I think the PI-like area isn't viable any more. I think the days of closed off adult only sections are over.

While Disney obviously isn't concerned about the demographic, I think there is a demand for adult only venues (not admission gated areas) after a certain time of night.

Disney really needs to go upscale though. Church Street and Uni have their demographic. Disney should look into gastro pubs, tap rooms, and wine bars that are open until a reasonable hour to the general public then are closed off to the under 21 crowd.

Having been a CM, I can understand Disney not wanting to cater to that crowd. We were cheap.

Yes! This is what I think DS needs!!! I don't know why gastropubs and tap rooms wouldn't work.

 

[OFTeric]

In regards to clubbing and adult entertainment at Walt Disney World:

People go on a Disney vacation to escape. Disney sells escapism. I danced with MANY people at Pleasure Island over the years who had NEVER been to a club before their Disney vacation. People were able to escape themselves for a night, and simply be whomever they wanted to be.

That is the very embodiment of what theme parks, and themed entertainment delivers.

I think the model for Pleasure Island is still viable, and I dearly miss it, as it was a very important part of my 20s.

I just wish that Universal would revamp some of their club offerings to make them a little bit more relevant, so that I would not have to wish Disney would renter the market.

 

[Eeyore]

I just wish that Universal would revamp some of their club offerings to make them a little bit more relevant, so that I would not have to wish Disney would renter the market.

Maybe this could have been a small part of the problem with PI? I imagine it would take a fair amount of capital to keep nightclubs up to date and relevant to people in their 20's.

 

[luv]

I think Disney's biggest problem with DTD was that they had no direction. They never figured out what they wanted to do there, which is why we ended up with Kiddie Bars. People weren't even sure what to expect, there were so many different ads in such a short time.

It sounds like they now have a clear vision. Hope it works!

 

[flynnibus]

Maybe this could have been a small part of the problem with PI? I imagine it would take a fair amount of capital to keep nightclubs up to date and relevant to people in their 20's.

Well it was the problem because Disney didn't want to invest in turning them over and keeping them current. Its a vicious cycle when you don't invest, revenue goes down, and then you find it harder to invest to turn it around because... revenues were down.

Clubs are insanely high margin businesses.. but they require constant investment to keep them relevant. A concept that seems foreign to Florida management...

 

[MichWolv]

In regards to clubbing and adult entertainment at Walt Disney World:

People go on a Disney vacation to escape. Disney sells escapism. I danced with MANY people at Pleasure Island over the years who had NEVER been to a club before their Disney vacation. People were able to escape themselves for a night, and simply be whomever they wanted to be.

That is the very embodiment of what theme parks, and themed entertainment delivers.

I think the model for Pleasure Island is still viable, and I dearly miss it, as it was a very important part of my 20s.

Dead on. I always spent most of my PI time in the Adv Club, but the dance venues were a place for many people who would never go "clubbing" in general to experience the atmosphere just a little bit, in an environment where they were able to feel comfortable while stepping out of their normal routine evening activities.

 

[wdwmagic]

I haven't watched the video, so I have to ask......was George there?

No he wasn't.

 

[MichWolv]

I've always thought the downfall of PI was brought on by the building of the West Side, prompting a need for a way to allow people to travel quickly from Marketplace to West Side, making it necessary to open PI to younger guests at night. That caused a great need to make the PI atmosphere more "family friendly".

The Disney Springs expansion seems to provide a way to get from Marketplace to West Side without going through the island, by walking through the "Town Center". I really wish they had decided on this explansion before closing PI. Maybe if they had, they'd take the opportunity offered by the new area to "gate" PI again at night, allowing it to be again what it was meant to be originally.

 

[MattM]

I think the PI-like area isn't viable any more. I think the days of closed off adult only sections are over.

Agree with your ideas for what Disney could do, but disagree with your comment "the days of closed off adult areas are over." I don't mind being around kids in general public spaces, theme parks, malls, etc. But it is nice to have an area where there are only people your age, or, above a certain age.

See: Disney Cruise Line.

 

[scpergj]

I stayed there in Jan 2004 as well. Doesnt really make much difference between Christmas 2003 & Jan 2004.

Very true! POP was very new and clean then...we stayed there in I think September of last year, and it was nowhere as neat or clean..

 

[WDW1974]

I think a good word be sophisticated. A place that doesn't need to beat you over the head with the experience.

Was going to stay away from this discussion as, right now, I've said all that I feel is worth saying. I think the presentation and the way it was handled speaks volumes and people will read into that whatever they choose based on their preconceived World views and/or knowledge ... BUT ... I like what you said there.

Sophisticated was what the original WDW Shopping Village at LBV was. And while Disney ran many of the shops, there was exactly ONE Disney merchandise shop. But Disney did run all the food and beverage. Over the years, the place got more sophisticated (other words to be used could be classy or adult). The LBV Club was more like a country club dining locale ... and the Empress Lilly featured some of the highest caliber dining in Central Florida well before the Grand Flo was even built with V&As. It was quite profitable and didn't cater to simpy the stroller brigade.

But that's the difference between WDW in the 70s and 80s and 90s and today. WDW has always been a family resort destination, but that never meant every location, every experience had to cater to the likes of a 5-year-old. There have always been bars, spas, restaurants that were places for ADULTS to congregate (akin to adults only areas on DCL).

The biggest thing WDW has lost in the last 10-15 years has been sophistication. Sure you can have all the alcohol you want. Just go to EPCOT at one of the now TWO Food and Wine Fests ... (wait,until someone suggests they make some aspect of them a permanent deal!) Want a club? Go to Atlantic Dance or Jellyrolls or Rix, just make sure you have money for a cab to get you back.

There is a class/sophistication factor that disappears everytime Disney adds carpeting with obvious Mickeys to a supposed deluxe resort ... or takes the theme of a resort and throws it away for rooms dedicated to the Disney BRAND and franchises ... or makes the Castle a place that only 4-year-old Princesses and their Mommies and Daddies and Gammies and Gampies can dine and shop at.

Disney believes it's adding 'class' back to DD, but all it's doing id bringing more of the outside world into its MAGICal realm. I don't really have an issue with it beyond the fact that yet again folks don't travel to WDW for DD (unless they're locals). There are four parks that need work, that have also lost that sophistication ... that class ... they once had.

I bet George Kalogridis can tell you all about how classy The Top of the World was and The Gulf Coast Room and how they weren't places for kids (well, except for those amazing Sunday Brunches that I used to go to as a kid, no characters included) ... if someone could actually find him.

 

[WDW1974]

Relaxing is another good word. Far too much of the Walt Disney World experience has been geared towards the GO! GO! GO! crowd. Yes, it's good for moving people through, but it creates a very different atmosphere. Part of the Old Florida idea being more theme than decor is going to be creating an experience that reflects the romantic ideas of Old Florida, and I do not see hustle and bustle fitting into that concept.

That just keys into what I just posted about the WDW experience when it was The Vacation Kingdom of the World versus The Timeshare Kingdom of the World.

WDW catered to a more discerning guest. One who could spent a day or multiples on Disney property and never (YOU BETTER SIT DOWN!!!) set foot in a theme park. That was why they had spas and golf courses and tennis and boating and horseback riding and biking and fine dining.

Now, you have people who spend 10 days at the Poly and never even go to the pool or sit on the beach.

There is absolutely nothing relaxing about most folks' WDW vacations and I'd argue that has more to do with Disney's pricing and marketing than it does to a fundamental shift in guests.

Every Disney resort on the planet has a far more relaxed vibe than WDW does now ... maybe that's why I get less out of my trips there as I like to RELAX while on vacation.

 

[TinkerBell9988]

I think @WDW1974 just nailed it on the proverbial head. That's the word I could never find to describe what Walt Disney World has been lacking since I was a ten year old.

Sophistication.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

 

[WDW1974]

Maybe this could have been a small part of the problem with PI? I imagine it would take a fair amount of capital to keep nightclubs up to date and relevant to people in their 20's.

This was a huge factor.

Anyone who knows the club scene in LA or Vegas or SoBe will tell you that you can't have a club get stale like a theme park, and by the mid 90s clubs needed to be changed and they weren't. It isn't a cheap business, but, if done right, is VERY profitable. Disney just decided it didn't want to be in the business, so it killed the business.

 

[flynnibus]

WDW catered to a more discerning guest. One who could spent a day or multiples on Disney property and never (YOU BETTER SIT DOWN!!!) set foot in a theme park. That was why they had spas and golf courses and tennis and boating and horseback riding and biking and fine dining.

Now, you have people who spend 10 days at the Poly and never even go to the pool or sit on the beach.

Yes - I've covered this in the past as well... the shift to park commandos has has a long negative impact on WDW. It's no longer a resort.. just theme parks with free transportation to a hotel.

I don't know how to unwind it now tho..

 

[Cody5242]

Lou was on Fox 35 Orlando to talk about Disney Springs. It seems like he was trying to look like an insider