Disney slowly losing our dollars.

[alissafalco]

Dear God, when will you understand that I know how to tackle the parks and if I abused the parent swap I would also reduce my wait times, I just choose not to because I don't agree with it. No biggie.

You seem to think that staying at a Universal resort is the best thing for me to claim free passes but when you consider I am flying into Orlando from Scotland on a package holiday, the money spent on staying at the Portofino would be in addition to the money I have already laid out on staying at Disney. If I don't stay at a Universal hotel (why would I when I already have a room at Disney) and just buy the passes, wouldn't that just be the same money you would have me spending at the Portofino? You like going round in circles don't you?

I suppose I could say this until I am blue in the face but I don't agree with Universal selling fast passes so I don't buy them and I won't stay at the Portofino when I already have a room at the Beach Club. I am of the opinion that my park tickets should enable my participation in the fast pass system such as Disney employs.

What the OP is trying to tell you is that for your future trips instead of staying and paying for WDW property, plan your next trip to stay at UNI/IOA, and if you want to go to WDW just buy a day pass for WDW. Why can't you do that?

 

[eddiemcgarrigle]

Hmm, what part of PACKAGE HOLIDAY do you not understand? I am not paying individually for each portion of my holiday, I am paying for everything together. Virgin do not offer a two centre Disney/Universal stay option and while I could have paid separately for hotels and flights, if you cannot marry up your flights and hotel dates (which is no guarantee as GLA to MCO or SFB are extremely busy) then you are pretty much stucck.

I could have opted to stay at Universal for my holidays but I prefer Disney so I'll stay there (otherwise I would probably be discussing this on a forum for IOA or Universal). For the record, I didn't see what all the fuss was about Harry Potter and even though my wife has read all the books, she wasn't overly fussed either. WDW has so much more to offer for my small family so it's Disney for the win.

 

[flynnibus]

Here is one analysis (not the one I was looking for), comparing 1982 to the present (but to be fair it doesn't mention that there are 2 additional parks)

Whoever wrote that is horrid at logic and math. They convert for inflation (which in its own sense.. has little meaning to non-commodity items like Disney) and then compare the non-inflation price to get their shocking 800+% number.

And we all know the parks were too cheap in the past.. which is why raising ticket prices was one of the first things the new Eisner regime did. Comparing back to 82/83 is just shockjock talk. A reasonable comparison would be more to the mid nineties after the expansion, or even in the 2000s. But even there, prices have outpaced income quite significantly. There is no questioning the escalation of prices in the last 5+ years.. but the 'comparing to the old days...' gets tiresome.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Whoever wrote that is horrid at logic and math. They convert for inflation (which in its own sense.. has little meaning to non-commodity items like Disney) and then compare the non-inflation price to get their shocking 800+% number.

And we all know the parks were too cheap in the past.. which is why raising ticket prices was one of the first things the new Eisner regime did. Comparing back to 82/83 is just shockjock talk. A reasonable comparison would be more to the mid nineties after the expansion, or even in the 2000s. But even there, prices have outpaced income quite significantly. There is no questioning the escalation of prices in the last 5+ years.. but the 'comparing to the old days...' gets tiresome.

OK, then let's compare WDW to median household income, which represents a family's ability to afford a WDW vacation.

Disney started offering hopper tickets that included all attractions with the opening of Epcot in 1982. Disney-MGM Studios opened in 1989, followed by DAK in 1998. The following 10-year spans compare median household income with ticket prices, assuming a WDW vacation in 1982 was 3 days (2 days for MK, 1 day for Epcot) and grew by one day as each park was added.

1982
Median Household Income: $19,004
3-Day WDW ticket ($35) price-per-day: $11.67
Ticket/income percentage: 0.0614%

1992
Median Household Income: $29,448
4-Day WDW ticket ($130.46) price-per-day: $32.62
Ticket/income percentage: 0.11076%

2002
Median Household Income: $41,620
5-Day WDW ticket ($243.89) price-per-day: $48.78
Ticket/income percentage: 0.11720%

2012
Median Household Income: $50,054 (estimated)
5-Day WDW ticket ($484.58) price-per-day: $96.92
Ticket/income percentage: 0.19362%

What's obvious is that even the ticket price-per-day has grown tremendously since 1982. In addition, WDW has grown (which is good), meaning that the length of a "full" WDW vacation has grown as well, making it even more difficult for families to afford WDW. Of course, families can simply buy three-day tickets today but, as we all know, today's WDW tickets are heavily front-loaded. Today's WDW comes out significantly less favorable (in terms of cost) when comparing a 3-day ticket in 1982 to a 3-day ticket in 2012.

A 2012 3-day base ticket (i.e. no hopping and no water parks) costs $257.73. Even as recently as 10 years ago, a 3-day Ultimate Hopper (which included hopping & water parks) cost $164.01, or $209.89 adjusted for inflation. Of course, as noted above, a 1982 3-day World Passport (included hopping) cost $35.00, or $83.50 adjusted for inflation. That's less than a one-day base ticket in 2012.

If you don't like those examples, then consider a more recent one:

In 2005, a 10-day Magic Your Way ticket with park hopping, water parks, and "No Expiration" cost $377.00.
In 2012, the same ticket cost $672.00.
That's a compound price increase of 8.6% annually.
That's a price difference of $295.00

According to the U.S. Department of Labor, $377.00 in 2005 is equivalent to $444.41 in 2012.
That's a compound price increase of 2.4% annually.
That's a price difference of $67.41.

Even in the last 7 years, with no new theme parks and few park additions, prices have skyrocketed out of control.

 

[Skibum1970]

The problem for me is that there are so many places that I want to go. So, when Disney makes it too expensive, I will go to those other places without regretting it too much. Our stays are always made with the discounted hotel stays and, if those go away, I don't know that we'll spend so much more for what we get.

 

[wendysue]

At our house there are currently a pair of 10 day no expiration tickets with a couple of days left, two expired WDW annual passes and two current annual passes to SeaWorld. On our next trip we will probably stay on site but only go to MK and Epcot then spend the rest of the time at SeaWorld. Can't see us getting WDW annual passes again and if they discontinue no expiration, I see us spending even less time and money at WDW. There are just too many other options. We enjoy staying on site and will continue to do so, for the most part, but will just spend less time and money in the Disney bubble. We have been going off property for a day or two for several years now. We even spent a week at Wilderness Lodge a couple of years ago and did not set foot in any of the parks or waterparks, just hung out by the pool, hit the outlet stores and resort hopped for a week. Of course, we drive so we have that option.

My wife and 5 others are going to the Princess half marathon in Feb. but are only planning on one day at a Disney park following the race. The rest of the time will be spent driving off property to some other parks and to the outlets in the area. If tickets were more reasonable, they would spend all their time and money at WDW. We can not be the only ones rebelling at Disney cost of admission, no matter how much we love it.

And to top it off, we go at least once per year, sometimes twice, with our Trip this past Sept. being trip number 22, with each trip being 7 plus days, often eating at on site restaurants 3 times a day plus snacks, no free dining. Of course we are small grains of sand in an ocean full of tourists, but Disney's constant price increases and upcoming next gen will save us a ton of money because we will be spending less by going to other places. Will our money be missed? I doubt it. I love Disney, but am slowly reaching the edge of loyalty. Hey that could be the name of a soap opera or country song...The edge of loyalty.

Am I the only one with these kinds of mixed feelings?

Totally agree....we finally got the much coveted "pin code" and are not bothering to use it.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Hmm, what part of PACKAGE HOLIDAY do you not understand? I am not paying individually for each portion of my holiday, I am paying for everything together. Virgin do not offer a two centre Disney/Universal stay option and while I could have paid separately for hotels and flights, if you cannot marry up your flights and hotel dates (which is no guarantee as GLA to MCO or SFB are extremely busy) then you are pretty much stucck.

I could have opted to stay at Universal for my holidays but I prefer Disney so I'll stay there (otherwise I would probably be discussing this on a forum for IOA or Universal). For the record, I didn't see what all the fuss was about Harry Potter and even though my wife has read all the books, she wasn't overly fussed either. WDW has so much more to offer for my small family so it's Disney for the win.

Mince, book as a fly drive and book your hotels separately. Its cheaper.

 

[flynnibus]

OK, then let's compare WDW to median household imcome, which represents a family's ability to afford a WDW vacation.

Yes, this is a 'better' comparison.. as it relates more to what people can afford. But of course you can only draw so much when comparing against the entire country, etc. I never questioned the intensity of price increases - just some of the methods used.

I see in your numbers you try to accommodate longer stays.. and you try to incorporate the no expiration option. While you may be trying to draw apples to apples.. you're also bringing in shifts in policy. No Expiration was a new upsell.. the expiring tickets were not discounted for losing expiration. That is a shift in ticketing/productization.. more so than just straight ticket price increases.

Any attempts at comparing longer stay tickets over many years is extremely difficult because Disney was constantly changing their ticket model. For most of the 90s.. longer tickets could include a mix of minor parks, unlimited minor parks, no minor parks, etc. It's not really 1-to-1 to today's product split unless you compare to the max tickets. And what you can see from the pricing trends of the last few years is.. Disney is increasing ticket prices more on the fully loaded tickets more than the middle of the pack tickets. Further skewing long term trends. Really what you see when you look at the numbers is three trends.. the productization splits.. the general increases.. and manipulation of prices at certain tiers. The last category is really exaggerated in the last few increases.

Here is a chart I made up showing the long term trends for one day, one day park hopper, 4 day base, 4 day PH, 4 day PH+no exp, and 10 day base, 10 day PH, and 10 day PH+no exp

What you see is the long term trends, even heading back into the nineties is pretty consistent except for the last few years where the rates really ramp up. And you notice the 10 day ticket on completely it's own trajectory vs the other tickets. This illustrates the third trend I mentioned in the previous paragraphs.

The chart is drawn assuming 4 days as a middle of the pack because that is a length Disney has consistently offered over the years. It also assumes no expiration is a 'new' product once MYW hits, so you don't compare old tickets to no expiration prices. It also does not compare water parks options, even tho those are included in various forms in the older tickets. Disney has tinkered with that formula over the years making direct comparisions difficult at all but the 'all inclusive' ticket level. But to show trends outside of that level, you need to draw the line somewhere

Check it out.. and pay attention to how must 'steering' Disney is doing to the categories where people are buying up tickets to stash them.

Also.. one thing you can say for MYW.. at least we've had a stable ticket offering for 7+ years. The 90s are a mess

 

[ParentsOf4]

I see in your numbers you try to accommodate longer stays.. and you try to incorporate the no expiration option. While you may be trying to draw apples to apples.. you're also bringing in shifts in policy. No Expiration was a new upsell.. the expiring tickets were not discounted for losing expiration. That is a shift in ticketing/productization.. more so than just straight ticket price increases.

As a business strategy, there's a great deal of sense for Disney to try to "hide" price increases by repackaging their product lines. "No Expiration" options were effectively "free" in many types of tickets, especially in the 1980s and 1990s. Equivalent tickets are offered today which is why, as you note, I feel they are a good apples-to-apples comparison.

Disney has played similar games in the past to hide other price increases. For example, when they eliminated tip and dessert from the DDP.

IMHO, a true multi-decade comparison of WDW prices needs to factor in Disney's attempts to repackage their product. If you want to take into account the "No Expiration" being an upsell today, one possible way would be to discount earlier tickets by an equivalent percentage. For example, today the "No Expiration" option costs $275 for a 10-day MYW ticket. Disney itself has set the prices on upsale components. IMHO, it would be fair to use Disney's current component price ratios to determine the appropriate discount when comparing, for example, tickets in 1982 to tickets in 2012.

No matter how you slice it, WDW ticket prices have outpaced nearly all other measures.

Gold was $402/ounce on October 1, 1982 (Epcot's opening date). Gold finished last week at $1,660.60, 413% of the 1982 price.

A six-day "No Expiration" hopper ticket (tax included) was $60 on October 1, 1982. The same ticket today costs $532.50, 888% of the 1982 price.

It means WDW tickets are twice as good as gold.

 

[flynnibus]

Disney has played similar games in the past to hide other price increases. For example, when they eliminated tip and dessert from the DDP.

The changes tho are more than just 'hiding' the number - they are shifts in how the product is positioned and sold. The point being - the product itself, hasn't been consistent or sold consistently.. even if Disney offers some add-ons that make them near equivalent.

Back in the day, tickets were considered 'good for life'.. not as a pricing option, but because of customer service. Finally at the MYW milestone, Disney wanted to switch to a model where people bought for their length of stay, and to encourage longer stays through heavy discounting. Disney was trying to push stays longer than those 3-5 day stays, and offered longer tickets at heavy discount to drive it. A no expiration policy on tickets would completely undermine that model. You'd be stupid not to just buy the max ticket duration every time unless you never plan on coming back. So Disney had to kill the no expiration. The paid upgrade offered for no expiration is a sort of peace offering.. trying to bridge that customer gap without cutting them off all together. Frankly I'm shocked it has lasted this long.

It's analogous to something that used to be sold by a measure of weight.. that gets swapped to being sold by unit. Certainly the company is going to do some manipulation to get the prices where they want in the transition.. but for how long are the arguments of 'when we bought it bulk by the pound... vs buying it bagged in a supermarket' really gonna be worthwhile comparisons? Eventually you accept 'this is the way you buy it now' and comparing to a method no longer available becomes more and more a rant than value.

Disney's ticketing model has swayed dramatically over the years. The only things really being consistent are the 1day/1park tickets and some sort of 'all you can eat' ticket.. and even that isn't 100% the same.

IMHO, a true multi-decade comparison of WDW prices needs to factor in Disney's attempts to repackage their product. If you want to take into account the "No Expiration" being an upsell today, one possible way would be to discount earlier tickets by an equivalent percentage

To play devil's advocate.. those same tickets from the 90s or 80s didn't offer as many services either. Should we double them because there are 2 more parks now? Or how about normalizing by the # of offerings available on property? Eventually you just need to draw the line at what is common - and the common is the 'middle of the pack' in terms of the product offering.

It means WDW tickets are twice as good as gold.

Gah.. tell that to my wife and she'll NEVER let me continue to cash in our old tickets when we do short stays We still have lots of comp tickets from the 80s and even some residual days left on earlier tickets too.

 

[PhilharMagician]

Also.. one thing you can say for MYW.. at least we've had a stable ticket offering for 7+ years. The 90s are a mess

Can you add an inflation baseline into your spreadsheet to give a relationship to household incomes?

Start with 1990 using the same value as the 1 day base and then add the percentage increase per year for inflation to compare. It would be interesting to see how Disney stacks up against our wallets.

 

[thomas998]

At our house there are currently a pair of 10 day no expiration tickets with a couple of days left, two expired WDW annual passes and two current annual passes to SeaWorld. On our next trip we will probably stay on site but only go to MK and Epcot then spend the rest of the time at SeaWorld. Can't see us getting WDW annual passes again and if they discontinue no expiration, I see us spending even less time and money at WDW. There are just too many other options. We enjoy staying on site and will continue to do so, for the most part, but will just spend less time and money in the Disney bubble. We have been going off property for a day or two for several years now. We even spent a week at Wilderness Lodge a couple of years ago and did not set foot in any of the parks or waterparks, just hung out by the pool, hit the outlet stores and resort hopped for a week. Of course, we drive so we have that option.

My wife and 5 others are going to the Princess half marathon in Feb. but are only planning on one day at a Disney park following the race. The rest of the time will be spent driving off property to some other parks and to the outlets in the area. If tickets were more reasonable, they would spend all their time and money at WDW. We can not be the only ones rebelling at Disney cost of admission, no matter how much we love it.

And to top it off, we go at least once per year, sometimes twice, with our Trip this past Sept. being trip number 22, with each trip being 7 plus days, often eating at on site restaurants 3 times a day plus snacks, no free dining. Of course we are small grains of sand in an ocean full of tourists, but Disney's constant price increases and upcoming next gen will save us a ton of money because we will be spending less by going to other places. Will our money be missed? I doubt it. I love Disney, but am slowly reaching the edge of loyalty. Hey that could be the name of a soap opera or country song...The edge of loyalty.

Am I the only one with these kinds of mixed feelings?

I understand spending more time outside Disney, not just because of prices but because the quality of what you get has declined over the years... Even the quality of the merchandise in the resorts has tumbled, where once they actually had higher end costumes that were special for resorts they now only have the same cheap junk you could pick up outside of Disney... My only real question is why have you not started using some hotels outside Disney... If you are going to spend less time in the resort why give them money for services you aren't using... we only manage to justify the overpriced Disney rooms by the fact that we get free parking, extra hours and things like that which can somewhat justify a premium price, but when we know we are only going to be visiting parks 5 days in a 10 day trip we only stay at a Disney resort the time we need, it save a lot of money and sadly shows you that many options outside Disney provide better rooms and service at a lower price.

 

[Magenta Panther]

I have to admit that after spending 3 consecutive fall/winter visits at WDW, that I have no plans to visit it again in the near future. It'll be either Disneyland or Universal for me if anywhere.

 

[jgage66]

We just returned Saturday from our 11th trip to DW. For my family, it has not lost any magic, although we enjoy the history and back stories in the parks a little more than riding ToT 10 times per trip. I can let everyone know that our last trip was in October of 2010 and included 7 days at the Carribbean Beach resort, free disney dining and 6 day park hoppers for a family of four. When I priced the exact same trip last fall, it would have cost us more than $800 than in 2010 which is why for the first time ever we stayed in a condo off grounds. I can assure everyone here that the price increases have certainly not affected the crowd levels. I was not expecting 2 hour wait's for space mountain the second week of January.

 

[ParentsOf4]

The changes tho are more than just 'hiding' the number - they are shifts in how the product is positioned and sold.

Let me put it this way. If Disney is trying to reposition its product line, why do prices only head in one direction?

Finally at the MYW milestone, Disney wanted to switch to a model where people bought for their length of stay, and to encourage longer stays through heavy discounting.

Weren't the Ultimate Hopper Passes the first length of stay ticket?

Disney was trying to push stays longer than those 3-5 day stays, and offered longer tickets at heavy discount to drive it. A no expiration policy on tickets would completely undermine that model.

I fully agree but that's what has got to irritate them. Originally, the "extra" days were offered at $4/day, an unbelievable discount. Clearly, TDO wanted the extra resort, food, and merchandise sales and was willing to offer huge discounts on incremental ticket purchases to get the longer stays.

I suspect the discount worked. At first. Then WWOHP opened and threw a monkey wrench into TDO's business model. Even at $4/day, TDO couldn't keep guests from visiting The Boy Who Won't Be Named. You'd think TDO would finally realize that it wasn't about price but about product. Instead, they throw another $1.5B into NextGen which is yet another finance-based solution to their problems. NextGen is not going to get people to stay longer. But WWOHP2 will get people to visit Universal longer.

To play devil's advocate.. those same tickets from the 90s or 80s didn't offer as many services either. Should we double them because there are 2 more parks now? Or how about normalizing by the # of offerings available on property? Eventually you just need to draw the line at what is common - and the common is the 'middle of the pack' in terms of the product offering.

I fully agree. I was just having some fun comparing WDW tickets to gold. It wasn't meant to be a serious comparison.

However, ticket prices can be normalized for length-of-stay, etc. In the end, no matter how you slice it, people are paying more than every for a WDW vacation.

Gah.. tell that to my wife and she'll NEVER let me continue to cash in our old tickets when we do short stays We still have lots of comp tickets from the 80s and even some residual days left on earlier tickets too.

I'm still milking the stack of tickets I bought in 2005. I knew I could count on TDO to provide me with a good rate of return on my "investment". And that's what I'm the most angry about. TDO is completely burning all those families desperate for their once-in-a-lifetime-for-the-children vacation saving their pennies to pay for a WDW vacation. Yet these people will never catch up to WDW prices. The gap simply keeps growing so might as well go heavily into debt for a WDW vacation. TDO shows absolutely no remorse with how badly it treats its target market.

 

[bethymouse]

Well- the cost is forcing us to go in 2014 and skip 2013. The deals/discounts are at times when we just cannot go. I guess Disney will lose some of my dollars but not enough to make any difference in how Disney does its business.

 

[real mad hatter]

Holy S.... Iam off after looking at this thread.All these graphs are giving me dizzy turns.

 

[flynnibus]

Can you add an inflation baseline into your spreadsheet to give a relationship to household incomes?

Start with 1990 using the same value as the 1 day base and then add the percentage increase per year for inflation to compare. It would be interesting to see how Disney stacks up against our wallets.

This is not a 10 second job for a few reasons. One, the Census puts out numbers in inflation adjusted dollars. My chart was not inflation adjusted, as it was to show the trend in prices, not necessarily against inflation since Disney's prices aren't really related to inflation. So we would be comparing adjusted vs nominal numbers.

Second - Who do we compare to? The entire country? A region? Or do we focus on Disney's target demographics in some way?

I'll take a stab and explain my methodology. Disney has always been a premium product - so we should compare with the incomes of those actually likely to travel and take vacations at a place like Disney. The Census Bureau splits the households into 5ths. I'll track against the 60-80% range as a 'above average' but not the top group. The line in this chart is divided by 100 to not throw off the scale of the chart.

Since the household number is inflation adjusted, and the others are not, it's not a true comparison.. but if the ticket prices were inflation adjusted, the lines would simply be flatter.. making the trend look even less evil.

As you can see.. what torques people off is.. you see the household line flattening for the last 5 years.. but the ticket lines actually accelerating during that same time period.

Perception is everything to the customer...

 

[flynnibus]

Let me put it this way. If Disney is trying to reposition its product line, why do prices only head in one direction?

To be fair.. when you look at most of the ticket swap-outs.. Disney was pretty honest. There is at least something you can point to as a platform to stand on. It's the last few years that Disney really only has demand-shaping and internal costs (which we can't see) as their only excuses for massive hikes.

Weren't the Ultimate Hopper Passes the first length of stay ticket?

There were several iterations of tickets like these. But its hard to draw comparisions as length of stay were only for resort bookings.. and during that time.. there were gaps between 1 days, and 4/5 day tickets for normal ticket buyers.. and then no longer tickets except for resort length of stay types. Its very difficult to draw universal comparisons because of all these variations.. you really have to pick a 'model' customer and follow them year to year.

An overview (but still not 100% from that page alone) on the ticket types..
http://allears.net/tix/ticketdesc.htm

For the Ultimate Passes..

Introduced in 1993 as the "Be Our Guest Pass". Became "Length Of Stay Pass" in 1995, "Unlimited Magic Pass" in 1999, and "Ultimate Park Hopper" in 2001. Discontinued in 2005 with the coming of Magic Your Way tickets..

I fully agree but that's what has got to irritate them. Originally, the "extra" days were offered at $4/day, an unbelievable discount. Clearly, TDO wanted the extra resort, food, and merchandise sales and was willing to offer huge discounts on incremental ticket purchases to get the longer stays.

I suspect the discount worked. At first. Then WWOHP opened and threw a monkey wrench into TDO's business model

.. and the hotel stay. Remember this is all a wound together plan with Magical Express to get people onsite and trap them. The lure of free transit along with a ticket model to encourage longer stays.. and because you have no wheels.. you're likely to stay more onsite for the length of your stay. I think there is more to the stagnation then just WWOHP (which people can just take a taxi to..) and is a combination of factors.. from Disney pricing, competition, constraints, Disney stagnation, etc.

NextGen is not going to get people to stay longer. But WWOHP2 will get people to visit Universal longer.

But who's to say Disney is still hanging on that 'stay longer' mentality? I would not be surprised to see MYW go away all together and be reworked when the next major park shift happens.

People forget UNI is extremely front-loaded, and virtually gives away days longer than 3.. more so than Disney. But UNI held their guns and didn't make the park cheap to get into just for a day or two.. even after WWOHP. Disney could give up on the 'discounted extended stay park tickets' and be working more towards the old 'length of stay' model.. including more but still holding prices up because of the offerings.

Just speculating.. but just like the FP+ arguments.. we must remember just because something is like this today.. doesn't mean that's the ONLY way the company can go.

Yet these people will never catch up to WDW prices. The gap simply keeps growing so might as well go heavily into debt for a WDW vacation. TDO shows absolutely no remorse with how badly it treats its target market.

I think there is still a heavy bias in this community tho due to the frequency this crowd visits. EVERY year? MULTIPLE times a year? This is still the very 'dedicated' fan base. Disney isn't something most people do that frequently.. especially if they are trying for that 'once in a lifetime trip for jimmy..'

I consider myself a dedicated fan - but I don't go nearly that often. We loved the cruise.. but I still put nearly 2 years between my cruising due to the cost. I modified my frequency to fit the cost. I expect that is what most people will do if they truly want the product.

 

[epcotisbest]

I understand spending more time outside Disney, not just because of prices but because the quality of what you get has declined over the years... Even the quality of the merchandise in the resorts has tumbled, where once they actually had higher end costumes that were special for resorts they now only have the same cheap junk you could pick up outside of Disney... My only real question is why have you not started using some hotels outside Disney... If you are going to spend less time in the resort why give them money for services you aren't using... we only manage to justify the overpriced Disney rooms by the fact that we get free parking, extra hours and things like that which can somewhat justify a premium price, but when we know we are only going to be visiting parks 5 days in a 10 day trip we only stay at a Disney resort the time we need, it save a lot of money and sadly shows you that many options outside Disney provide better rooms and service at a lower price.

We actually have stayed at plenty of off site places, but usually for shorter trips. We stay at Disney property when we are going to be there longer simply because my wife and I both love Disney resorts. The resorts themselves, be it value, mods or deluxe all appeal to us and we love staying there.
We have been to Pop, AoA, BW, BC, OKW, SSR, WL, FW, Poly, Contemporary and others because they are fun to stay at.
Off site in just the last few years we have stayed at the Peabody, three different Marriotts, three different Hiltons, Orange Lake, Hyatt Regency,Omni Worldgate, two different Sheraton Vistanas, Vacation Village and others. We have time share that we use, make TS trades and pay out of pocket.
We both have jobs that allow us four plus weeks off per year (after being in them for a very long time) and live only one state away so we don't have to deal with flights or transportation as we drive. We also do not have kids, so last minute trips happen more often than not, and we avoid summers and holidays.
Yes, some of Disney property is way overpriced, but I like staying there and can justify paying Disney prices (though almost always at a discount) or using TS points, but we just simply don't spend as much time all consumed by Disney as we used to.
We have also stayed at Disney Vero Beach and at Disney Hilton Head Island, simply because we like the resort and how Disney does it. Heck, if Disney had a resort in my hometown in Georgia, we would stay there as well, because we like it.
Yes we are guilty of going very often, and when I mentioned 22 trips, that was week long trips. There have been countless trips of a shorter duration. I guess what it boils down to is maybe the frequency and duration of the trips made them, over the years, become a little less special. And since it is not as special as it used to be (at least for us) then we are spending less time there and more time at other places like SeaWorld and Uni. Some people have the attitude of Walt Disney World onsite or nothing. They will probably never know the wonder that is Discovery Cove, and that is sad.
If Disney ticket prices had not changed so much we would still probably be in that Disney bubble.