Disney slowly losing our dollars.

tsaintc

Well-Known Member
And, sadly, your emotions are why TWDC feels it's possible to raise ticket prices 7-to-9%, DDP 12.5%. That's why a buffet at CRT costs $60/adult. That's why WDW can charge $600/night for a room costing $60/night. Why WDW can let quality slip, let animatronics on attractions go unrepaired for years. It that irrational emotional attachment to all things Disney that allows corporate to take advantage of their so called "guests". I don't know about you but that's not how I treat my guests.


Ticket prices are a function of supply & demand, simple business. Most people would agree that WDW is busier than ever, despite a poor economy and tough, local competition. The recent theme park stats posted on this very site confirm this truth. Read a book, specifically one about microeconomics. Not sure where you are getting you $60/night baseline; that is just not accurate.

Also, not sure you would take a shot at me and my 'irrational' emotion attachment. I take offense to your poor choice of words. My experiences @ WDW encapsulate my childhood memories, specifically those of my late mother who was the catalyst of the WDW craze in my family. These emotions and memories also include priceless time with my wife and kids. These emotions are mine, and you have no right to classify them in any way.
 

SherlockWayne

Active Member
It just starts to become petty class warfare when people start bringing up the compensation of executives, in any field not just disney. You can talk about a decline in quality all day but when you start with the "and he makes 50 million, while his workers make peanuts" it just makes people look bitter. Oh look, he's a one percenter!!! Good for him, he dedicated a lot of time and effort to educate himself in such a way to place himself in an advantageous position in the company and is now reaping the benefits.

There is a fine line between reaping the fruits of your labor and over harvesting. I believe there's a bigger issue at hand then just class warfare. One of the main complaints brought up often is the declining quality of cast. While I feel the cast of WDW still do a great job, it's the legacy of a brand they love that maintains that quality. Eventually though, that nostalgia will fade. Just as current management is outsourcing, and there by devaluating the creativity that built the company, with time, that legacy too will start to fade, if kept on the same track. It's hard to want to do a good job if the company you serve makes it increasingly more apparent that they do not care about you in the slightest. As a Disney shareholder, I am personally appalled that Bob makes so much while the people truly responsible for the company's success make so little. Personally, I don't believe anyone deserves to make as much money as Iger and other CEOs. If the leader of the free world, literally the man with the power to end the world if he so chose makes a salary of 400K, I have a hard time justifying 50 million dollars. I have no problem with people making money off their own work. If someone earns royalties on a book or film, absolutely, you earned that money. The issue I have is that Bob only is able to make that much because the company pays so meagerly. If I ran a company where I had full-time employees whose earnings placed them below the poverty line, I would be ashamed, and I would consider my company, and myself, a failure.

I believe quality begins with the workforce. To have a workforce that provides quality, you have to prove that you consider your workforce valuable. Disney could make a commitment to provide its full-time workforce with a living wage, they choose not to under the guise of competitive wages. Because of this, Bob's compensation is more than just unjustified, it's insulting. I don't care what the insanity of modern business education says, a happier, stronger, more content workforce will equal a stronger company.
 

Skippy's Pal

Well-Known Member
There is a fine line between reaping the fruits of your labor and over harvesting. I believe there's a bigger issue at hand then just class warfare. One of the main complaints brought up often is the declining quality of cast. While I feel the cast of WDW still do a great job, it's the legacy of a brand they love that maintains that quality. Eventually though, that nostalgia will fade. Just as current management is outsourcing, and there by devaluating the creativity that built the company, with time, that legacy too will start to fade, if kept on the same track. It's hard to want to do a good job if the company you serve makes it increasingly more apparent that they do not care about you in the slightest. As a Disney shareholder, I am personally appalled that Bob makes so much while the people truly responsible for the company's success make so little. Personally, I don't believe anyone deserves to make as much money as Iger and other CEOs. If the leader of the free world, literally the man with the power to end the world if he so chose makes a salary of 400K, I have a hard time justifying 50 million dollars. I have no problem with people making money off their own work. If someone earns royalties on a book or film, absolutely, you earned that money. The issue I have is that Bob only is able to make that much because the company pays so meagerly. If I ran a company where I had full-time employees whose earnings placed them below the poverty line, I would be ashamed, and I would consider my company, and myself, a failure.

I believe quality begins with the workforce. To have a workforce that provides quality, you have to prove that you consider your workforce valuable. Disney could make a commitment to provide its full-time workforce with a living wage, they choose not to under the guise of competitive wages. Because of this, Bob's compensation is more than just unjustified, it's insulting. I don't care what the insanity of modern business education says, a happier, stronger, more content workforce will equal a stronger company.



Nice post. The nostalgia will truly fade, and is doing so as I write this. As an "aging Baby Boomer" who grew up on Disneyland the TV show, I visited the parks with my family and saw them through the eyes of the kid I used to be. While I did my best to give my kids the same sense of appreciation, Walt is no more real to them than Betty Crocker, and THEIR "Disney nostalgia" belongs to the era of Lion King and Little Mermaid, and the special touches in the parks that my generation sees are largely lost on them. The next generation - who knows? As my generation fades from the scene - or gets to the point where they can no longer treat the family to Disney trips - the "value proposition" of the parks experience vs. the cost could get very different.

We are looking forward so much to our 2014 trip to Disneyland, but honestly, what with the quality issues, lack of reinvestment, decline in food quality and homogenization of restaurant experiences, the looming FP+ and apparent need to tether one's park experience to a mobile device I'd rather not have to bother with, the apparent rationing to 3 FP+'s per day, Dismey's terrible track record with their software and infrastructure -- quite honestly, I am relieved that WDW isn't in our sights now, and I'm not sure when it will be again. That's an honest statement, and honestly, it hurts to say it.
 

luv

Well-Known Member
We are planning to visit Universal in the coming years, once my youngest is tall enough to ride everything; we are roller coaster fans. I hope it lives up to the expectations.
Contrary to popular lies, Uni is not all about thrill rides. The thrill rides they do have ARE the real deal, unlike Disney and their wimpy thrill rides. But the Uni parks also have many, many regular, themed rides, just like the Disney parks...and some kiddie rides that may or may not have teens turning up their noses. One ride is limited to small children and their accompanying adult.

The idea that Disney is for everyone and Uni is for teens who like coasters is a fabrication.

I think your kids will like Uni, but do prepare them for the fact that Uni's theme parks are just like Disney's - family parks - that happen to have real thrill rides instead of coasters that barely qualify for name "coaster." Hate to have the teens thinking they were going to a park with 30 major thrill rides and have them end up mad about Cat in the Hat!!
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Ticket prices are a function of supply & demand, simple business. Most people would agree that WDW is busier than ever, despite a poor economy and tough, local competition. The recent theme park stats posted on this very site confirm this truth. Read a book, specifically one about microeconomics. Not sure where you are getting you $60/night baseline; that is just not accurate.
Working backwards ...

First, Disney is required to charge DVC member annual Maintenance Fees (MF) according to cost. Looking at these fees, you'll find many DVC studios are available for $60/night or less. Nearly all are available for under $100/night, even during the busiest times of year. Comparable rooms at the same Deluxe Resorts often charge over $600/night. Disney's Deluxe Resorts are highly profitable. Disney is, for example, charging $671.62/night for a Standard View room at the Boardwalk Inn this Christmas. (Rooms are still available, by the way. There seems to be a plentiful supply at those prices.) A similar studio at the Boardwalk Villas for the same nights is $98.46/night using DVC points.

Second, please consider reading WDW's quarterly transcripts more closely. Domestic attendance at the theme parks is flat to declining as a growing number of U.S. residents are priced out of a WDW vacation. The little attendance gains WDW have had of late are driven largely by a strong South American economy, primarily in Brazil and Argentina, and a weak U.S. dollar, providing a favorable exchange rate for most international vacationers.

Third, WDW tickets are not governed by the law of supply and demand.

In its simplest terms, the law of supply and demand involves the relationship between the availability of a good or service and its price. Without getting into a drawn out discussion of microeconomics, when demand increases, then prices increase. When supply increases, then prices decrease. In the case of WDW tickets, Disney has the capability to print millions of more tickets for pennies, and incrementally support these additional WDW guests for a few dollars more at the parks. As a result, the potential supply of WDW tickets far exceeds current demand.

Instead, WDW ticket prices are governed by the principle of "price discrimination". Price discrimination, commonly represented in the phrase, “whatever the market to bear”, dates back centuries. It’s based solely on what someone is willing to pay, regardless of supply or demand. In an ideal price discrimination system, a company selling something is able to charge each individual consumer the maximum they are willing to spend. The price of something has no bearing on its cost or what someone else is paying for it.

In the traditionally demonized example, "whatever the market will bear" means charging someone thousands of dollars for a drug they need to survive, even though it costs only pennies to develop and manufacture that drug and the supply of that drug is plentiful.

Disney has been working towards price discrimination for some time and, with the information they are collecting from MyMagic+, will be able to move towards something called “perfect price discrimination”. In a nutshell, it means getting you to spend the absolute greatest amount possible for your WDW vacation even if the person next to you is paying significantly less for essentially the same vacation. To achieve perfect price discrimination, Disney needs as much information about you as possible. MagicBand is designed to allow Disney to collect sufficient information so they can crunch this data in a computer and determine what your threshold of pain is. Since perfect price discrimination is illegal (WDW cannot, for example, charge you $200 for a ticket because that's what you're willing to pay while charging me $20 for that same ticket because that's what I'm willing to pay), Disney will have to modify this to offer slightly different packages to groups of consumers so it could legally argue that two different groups aren’t paying substantially different prices for identical vacations.

Looking at this simplistically, Disney is not going to offer you (for example) “Free Dining” if you are willing to book your vacation without it, even if every other person in the park is receiving “Free Dining”. We already see this principle at work, with many receiving "Free Dining" PINs for October to December, something that's not available to the general public. As Disney collects more data through MyMagic+, they will be able to target this sort of incentive more effectively, making sure the only "guests" who receive those discounts are those who would not visit WDW without them.

People who say “I love Disney so much that I’m willing to pay any price” are effectively telling Disney to charge them more even though their next door neighbor might be paying thousands less for a nearly identical vacation. “I go to WDW because it makes me happy and I don’t care how much it costs.” This is Disney’s ideal consumer

Go to WDW for whatever reason you like. But your willingness to pay essentially any price for your WDW vacation affects all of us. Me, I've been going to Uni lately because I believe they care about their paying customers, the way WDW used to, and provides a better value today. (As recently as 5 years ago I felt WDW provided a better value but, oh my, how things have changed in 5 years.) I rarely visit WDW despite having purchased a large stock of WDW tickets back in 2005 before prices started getting out-of-hand in the last few years. I could visit WDW today using tickets I purchased 8 years ago. Instead, I'll continue to spend most of my Orlando vacations elsewhere until WDW decides to start treating its paying "guests" with a little more respect.

We all have our thresholds of pain. Would you feel the same way about WDW if they charged $1000 per day for a ticket? $10,000 per day? I have many emotional attachments to WDW as well, having vacationed there for over 35 years. The only difference between you and I is that, at their current prices, I've reached my threshold of pain.
 

EOD K9

Well-Known Member
Hey @sweetpee_1993 Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday, but your DME is booked. Is this how @Disneyfalcon feels helping people out? In reference to Disney getting too expensive, I believe it is, but I don't regret buying into DVC. Now, I will change how I vacation, but my DVC will get used via renting or using it in conjunction with a cruise.
 

asianway

Well-Known Member
People who say “I love Disney so much that I’m willing to pay any price” are effectively telling Disney to charge them more even though their next door neighbor might be paying thousands less for a nearly identical vacation. “I go to WDW because it makes me happy and I don’t care how much it costs.” This is Disney’s ideal consumer

Anyone who makes that statement is a huge part of the problem, and are the reason why I cannot wait until the @WDW1974 Disney fan mental health book hits the shelves. It really is fascinating how people become attached to the brand.

Even moreso how people then project that attachment to people like Lou who have made themselves seem as though they are part of that to make a living off of it.
 

asianway

Well-Known Member
And, sadly, your emotions are why TWDC feels it's possible to raise ticket prices 7-to-9%, DDP 12.5%. That's why a buffet at CRT costs $60/adult. That's why WDW can charge $600/night for a room costing $60/night. Why WDW can let quality slip, let animatronics on attractions go unrepaired for years. It that irrational emotional attachment to all things Disney that allows corporate to take advantage of their so called "guests". I don't know about you but that's not how I treat my guests.

Something jumped out at me recently, a small but minor thing but bears mentioning.

Anyone remember when the Resorts would have free lemonade and cookies out in the lobby around check in time?

How much can that possibly cost? A couple thousand a month, at most? Its been gone at least ten years if I recall correctly and is fairly standard at other hotels around the country that are not classified in the Deluxe/upscale category.
 

BryceM

Well-Known Member
We are planning to visit Universal in the coming years, once my youngest is tall enough to ride everything; we are roller coaster fans. I hope it lives up to the expectations.
You may be disappointed. Universal only has three major roller coasters between both Universal Studios and Islands of Adventure. There are The Incredible Hulk Coaster and Dragon Challenge (technically two roller coasters) at Islands of Adventure and then Hollywood Rip, Ride, RockIt at Universal Studios. Universal Studios also has Revenge of the Mummy, but it's focuses more on being a themed dark-ride experience than being a roller coaster.

It's a very common misconception that Universal is all roller coasters.

Most of Universal focuses on greatly themed ride experiences, not massive steel roller coasters. Heck, when you see The Incredible Hulk Coaster you'll realize that it's not very tall compared to massive steel giants located throughout the rest of the country. It's only about 110 ft. tall. Universal is pretty much just like Disney.
 

sweetpee_1993

Well-Known Member
Hey @sweetpee_1993 Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday, but your DME is booked. Is this how @Disneyfalcon feels helping people out? In reference to Disney getting too expensive, I believe it is, but I don't regret buying into DVC. Now, I will change how I vacation, but my DVC will get used via renting or using it in conjunction with a cruise.

You rock! Seriously. Without even throwing rocks at you! LOL!

I'm so glad you're still finding great ways to utilize your DVC so you can still vacation YOUR way. I was thinking myself that having some points wouldn't be a bad thing because I'd be doing the same as you: renting them out or using for short stays in conjunction with cruising. I would definitely ONLY purchase on the secondary market because the restrictions between buying direct or secondary don't really affect what we'd want to use the points for anyway. Maybe later this year once my car is paid off we'll take another look. ;)

Thanks again! I appreciate ya sooooo much!!!!
 

sweetpee_1993

Well-Known Member
CEO (and senior executive) compensation is a joke. In the heyday of modern business, the typical CEO made 30 times the average worker. That ratio is now 300-to-1.

CEO compensation has no bearing on the health of a company. Plenty of CEOs have been paid multimillions as their companies collapsed. Instead, CEO compensation today is driven primarily by their takeover of compensation review boards, boards that are supposed to look out for companies' best interests but now are dominated by CEO cronies.

Yep. Think of all the CEOs that get paid big chunks to LEAVE a company. There's something inherently wrong with the way businesses work nowadays. Some may say, "Oh well. It is what it is. You can't change it." No, I can't change it but I'll never accept it or agree with it. I'm a mom. Accountability is a huge part of my life. If I have an opportunity to impose accountability on these overpaid divas/CEOs (who largely have little to no common sense regardless of their overpriced pieces of paper that state otherwise) I will. Don't even get this hot-blooded girl started. I may not make their bazillions but at least I still have integrity and a functioning brain in addition to happiness and contentment with my life. That's something money OBVIOUSLY cannot buy.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
The idea that Disney is for everyone and Uni is for teens who like coasters is a fabrication.

When anyone takes things to extremes... it becomes invalid. But to say UNI is more focused on young adults and adults vs small children is very much rooted in truth. UNI is dominated by more mature themes.. and with lots of rides with significant height restrictions. That isn't to say UNI has nothing for small children.. but they have far less to do.

I would not recommend someone with only kids under 8 or so goto UNI.. they'd just sit out the majority of things. USO has the kid area, and IOA has Suess.. but the pallette is pretty thin for the younglings.
 

Soarin2u

Well-Known Member
But...WDW does not exceed TDS in your opinion, right? Only other regional amusements?

TDS was downright gorgeous, unique and quite, yes, but lacked the full Disney feeling and experience. So they are very much equal. Yes, I did say WDW because it, as whole, is better than other parks but not other DISNEY parks... Do you see what I mean? ...
 

asianway

Well-Known Member
TDS was downright gorgeous, unique and quite, yes, but lacked the full Disney feeling and experience. So they are very much equal. Yes, I did say WDW because it, as whole, is better than other parks but not other DISNEY parks... Do you see what I mean? ...
Interesting. Not sure how to respond to the thought that TDS lacked the Disney experience. To each their own.
 

thomas998

Well-Known Member
Not at all, with the lack of serious re-investment in the parks, newer and better offerings off-site and at comparable resorts (under the Disney name or not), I'm sure their are plenty of others.


I hope there are lots, it will make the parks less crowded for the people that don't mind higher prices. Frankly I wish they would double prices and eliminate AP tickets. Imagine a visit with 25-40% fewer people... would be like heaven.
 

Soarin2u

Well-Known Member
Interesting. Not sure how to respond to the thought that TDS lacked the Disney experience. To each their own.

Wow, living in Asia sure does mess up the way I explain things. Things in this language are much more simple so a lot of logic and context clues are required. TDS is its own experience and amazing one at that, but I did not feel as if I was in Disney... Only one section of the park did, and it was as if you were under the sea.. All of this may just be because I was overwhelmed and in a different country, but I still love it's uniqueness and it had its own magic, but not the kind that I'm use to.
 

ddbowdoin

Well-Known Member
There is a fine line between reaping the fruits of your labor and over harvesting. I believe there's a bigger issue at hand then just class warfare. One of the main complaints brought up often is the declining quality of cast. While I feel the cast of WDW still do a great job, it's the legacy of a brand they love that maintains that quality. Eventually though, that nostalgia will fade. Just as current management is outsourcing, and there by devaluating the creativity that built the company, with time, that legacy too will start to fade, if kept on the same track. It's hard to want to do a good job if the company you serve makes it increasingly more apparent that they do not care about you in the slightest. As a Disney shareholder, I am personally appalled that Bob makes so much while the people truly responsible for the company's success make so little. Personally, I don't believe anyone deserves to make as much money as Iger and other CEOs. If the leader of the free world, literally the man with the power to end the world if he so chose makes a salary of 400K, I have a hard time justifying 50 million dollars. I have no problem with people making money off their own work. If someone earns royalties on a book or film, absolutely, you earned that money. The issue I have is that Bob only is able to make that much because the company pays so meagerly. If I ran a company where I had full-time employees whose earnings placed them below the poverty line, I would be ashamed, and I would consider my company, and myself, a failure.

I believe quality begins with the workforce. To have a workforce that provides quality, you have to prove that you consider your workforce valuable. Disney could make a commitment to provide its full-time workforce with a living wage, they choose not to under the guise of competitive wages. Because of this, Bob's compensation is more than just unjustified, it's insulting. I don't care what the insanity of modern business education says, a happier, stronger, more content workforce will equal a stronger company.

you do realize he is CEO of The Walt Disney Corporation...not just Disney parks.

If the leader of the free world, literally the man with the power to end the world if he so chose makes a salary of 400K, I have a hard time justifying 50 million dollars. I have no problem with people making money off their own work. If someone earns royalties on a book or film, absolutely, you earned that money.

The President makes all his money in either the house or the senate.. Barry's net worth is high, very high.

I have no problem with people making money off their own work

His job is to provide a positive return for his investors, which he continues to do, hence... yes, he does his job.
 

ddbowdoin

Well-Known Member
There is a fine line between reaping the fruits of your labor and over harvesting. I believe there's a bigger issue at hand then just class warfare. One of the main complaints brought up often is the declining quality of cast. While I feel the cast of WDW still do a great job, it's the legacy of a brand they love that maintains that quality. Eventually though, that nostalgia will fade. Just as current management is outsourcing, and there by devaluating the creativity that built the company, with time, that legacy too will start to fade, if kept on the same track. It's hard to want to do a good job if the company you serve makes it increasingly more apparent that they do not care about you in the slightest. As a Disney shareholder, I am personally appalled that Bob makes so much while the people truly responsible for the company's success make so little. Personally, I don't believe anyone deserves to make as much money as Iger and other CEOs. If the leader of the free world, literally the man with the power to end the world if he so chose makes a salary of 400K, I have a hard time justifying 50 million dollars. I have no problem with people making money off their own work. If someone earns royalties on a book or film, absolutely, you earned that money. The issue I have is that Bob only is able to make that much because the company pays so meagerly. If I ran a company where I had full-time employees whose earnings placed them below the poverty line, I would be ashamed, and I would consider my company, and myself, a failure.

I believe quality begins with the workforce. To have a workforce that provides quality, you have to prove that you consider your workforce valuable. Disney could make a commitment to provide its full-time workforce with a living wage, they choose not to under the guise of competitive wages. Because of this, Bob's compensation is more than just unjustified, it's insulting. I don't care what the insanity of modern business education says, a happier, stronger, more content workforce will equal a stronger company.

the leader of the free world travels to Hawaii and it costs the US tax dollars 8 million... round trip to San Francisco 1.8 million

ALL FOR CAMPAIGN FUNDRAISING!

So the man makes WELL over 400K... plus, they make their net worth in the senate and house.
 

willtravel

Well-Known Member
Working backwards ...

First, Disney is required to charge DVC member annual Maintenance Fees (MF) according to cost. Looking at these fees, you'll find many DVC studios are available for $60/night or less. Nearly all are available for under $100/night, even during the busiest times of year. Comparable rooms at the same Deluxe Resorts often charge over $600/night. Disney's Deluxe Resorts are highly profitable. Disney is, for example, charging $671.62/night for a Standard View room at the Boardwalk Inn this Christmas. (Rooms are still available, by the way. There seems to be a plentiful supply at those prices.) A similar studio at the Boardwalk Villas for the same nights is $98.46/night using DVC points.



SSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHH.......Stop telling everyone this.
 

rob0519

Well-Known Member
Not at all, with the lack of serious re-investment in the parks, newer and better offerings off-site and at comparable resorts (under the Disney name or not), I'm sure their are plenty of others.

No, There are a lot of us out here that are losing the fascination with WDW. We're going back on the 24th of this month and I have to say, it may be our last visit for a while. We're doing our first Disney Cruise in April 2014 and as of now we are not planning on any WDW time.

The value and quality we pay for at the Deluxe resorts combined with the condition of the parks and the length of the lines is nearing our breaking point.
 

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