News Disney Riviera Resort announced

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Stupid is a little harsh...but it’s in the ballpark.

I think this should be your new tag line, btw...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think this should be your new tag line, btw...

I resemble that remark

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

But where did you get the historical information from? I can find no reliable source anywhere for resort pricing information.

I can give you the entire rack since about 1999 from memory within about 10%...If you really wanna know

The rate of rack Increase as opposed to DVC increase is usually assumed to be much closer by DVC buyers than it is...

It’s a “self soothing” tactic

 

[xdan0920]

The rate of rack Increase as opposed to DVC increase is usually assumed to be much closer by DVC buyers than it is...

It’s a “self soothing” tactic

Another self soothing tactic is using rack rates as your baseline.

 

[xdan0920]

As for the pride in being members, why not? That has been the case for a long time, remember that slogan “Disney’s best kept secret”?

It’s just a weird thing to be proud of is all.

I agree. That is the only reason people should buy in. It’s why we bought in, and it happens to have paid off, should we want to sell - which we don’t yet. But if we don’t “make” anything when we sell, so be it.

I fail to see any other reason to buy in.

Those that come three or four times a year can probably do so that often simply because they bought in. Those buying for the first time today are unlikely to be able to accumulate points in the same way. Many of the big points owners I know bought when the recession was in full swing.

The old reason for buying in was to save money on your Disney trips. The new reason is to prepay for your Disney trips.

Uncaring? Did they upset you in some way? Are they being unkind to you by buying?

Oh, you mean they don’t care (different thing) .... about what exactly?

They don’t care about the obscene price point or making the numbers make sense. They just wanna “own” a piece of the magic.

Edit to add...

No I’m not upset at Riviera buyers. I don’t know any actually, except maybe you?

 

[Lensman]

Oh man, this thread got a lot more interesting to me with this enjoyable subthread on breakeven analysis.

Ouch.
Did you really just call a bunch of people stupid?

Loads of people are stupid...that’s why most product sells.

Welcome to Earth

I multi-quoted this to respond, but your "harsh but in the ballpark" is in the ballpark. The one thing I have to add that someone else said is that they could instead be uncaring, rather than un-analytical. They could just not care whether it's a good deal. Cars are a good example of purchases that some people make in this price range where value is not foremost in the picture. Luxury goods are also an interesting comparison - even Apple products. Apple might be the most interesting because I'm sure that Disney jumped on the bandwagon for trying to move part of their product line into the high-margin "luxury" category.

Let’s not put words in people’s mouths please. I said “uneducated consumers” on this type of purchase. Having worked in timeshare a bit years ago, I’d say the majority fall in this category when it comes to this type of purchase. There’s a lot to know to determine if it’s actually a good deal for you — and most just plain don’t know what they don’t know on this, and take at face value what salespeople tell them.

I agree. Surprisingly few people know how to do a breakeven analysis and even fewer will bother to. I think they should teach this in school as part of a required "consumer finance" class. On a related personal note, my wife was amazed that I did a breakeven analysis on replacing our old plasma tv with a new 4K LED/LCD screen. I calculated our breakeven at 2.4 years.

It’s indisputable that DVC is becoming less attractive as a pure financial deal than it once was. If I use identical assumptions with my various DVC purchases I arrive at 6-7yrs break even. DRR the best I can get to is 15yrs.

Note that it's still 15 years, so even a half-decent salesperson can make that work. Residential solar PV is working off of 9-12 year breakevens and is selling decently.

If they get the same number of buyers for this as past resorts, this means people were either a) less educated on the purchase on average, or b) are educated, know it may not be a great deal, but bought it anyway for intangible reasons.

I'm not sure being a good financial decision is a factor for that many people. I suspect that for most buyers today, they are "in love with the idea" and would be satisfied to know that it wasn't a complete waste of money like buying a house with a swimming pool.

It will still be a “good deal” for people who [snip] don’t have alternative investments that would produce a better yield over time, etc, etc.

Lower bank account yield is a factor in my analysis of why prices have gone up. It's equivalent to what economists say about how low interest rates can cause an asset price bubble.

Uncaring? Did they upset you in some way? Are they being unkind to you by buying?

Oh, you mean they don’t care (different thing) .... about what exactly?

I interpreted it as uncaring about value-for-money.

I admit we waste a lot of time on this board with misinterpretations about what people say, but that's because people don't take into account that what they write will be read 100's of times and so they should take the time to write clearly and unambiguously, unless they're uncaring. Lol

 

[nickys]

It’s just a weird thing to be proud of is all.

The old reason for buying in was to save money on your Disney trips. The new reason is to prepay for your Disney trips.


They don’t care about the obscene price point or making the numbers make sense. They just wanna “own” a piece of the magic.

Edit to add...

No I’m not upset at Riviera buyers. I don’t know any actually, except maybe you?

If I had the cash I’d consider a small add-on. Enough to give us maybe three or four nights as a split stay on each of our trips, using banking and borrowing.
Most of the people I know who have bought have owned for a fairly long time, and are just adding to their portfolio.

 

[xdan0920]

If I had the cash I’d consider a small add-on. Enough to give us maybe three or four nights as a split stay on each of our trips, using banking and borrowing.
Most of the people I know who have bought have owned for a fairly long time, and are just adding to their portfolio.

Portfolio of timeshares. Even sounds weird.

 

[seascape]

Portfolio of timeshares. Even sounds weird.

Let's see. I own SSR, BWK, CCR and GF. I also own points ar Wyndham. Does that count as a portfolio of timeshares?

In reality though Timeshares are not an investment. You should not buy a timeshare with debt. American's have too much debt and not enough saved for emergencies, retirement and children's education. Remember this, the decisions you make are seen by your children and they learn from your example. Vacations are a luxury and not a necessity. None of us need to visit Disney as much as we do. I know it's fun but it is extremely expensive even with DVC points that are fully paid for.

 

[xdan0920]

Let's see. I own SSR, BWK, CCR and GF. I also own points ar Wyndham. Does that count as a portfolio of timeshares?

In reality though Timeshares are not an investment. You should not buy a timeshare with debt. American's have too much debt and not enough saved for emergencies, retirement and children's education. Remember this, the decisions you make are seen by your children and they learn from your example. Vacations are a luxury and not a necessity. None of us need to visit Disney as much as we do. I know it's fun but it is extremely expensive even with DVC points that are fully paid for.

Ok?

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Let's see. I own SSR, BWK, CCR and GF. I also own points ar Wyndham. Does that count as a portfolio of timeshares?

In reality though Timeshares are not an investment. You should not buy a timeshare with debt. American's have too much debt and not enough saved for emergencies, retirement and children's education. Remember this, the decisions you make are seen by your children and they learn from your example. Vacations are a luxury and not a necessity. None of us need to visit Disney as much as we do. I know it's fun but it is extremely expensive even with DVC points that are fully paid for.

I think that's what trips up a lot of people. People like to compare buying DVC to the "cost of money", and to me, that's just not the way to think about it. DVC is a luxury item, and not for everyone. You only buy DVC to save on future resort costs. Period.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I don't know... ... now that I see this countdown clock in my email, maybe I'll be persuaded to buy... ...

 

[xdan0920]

I think that's what trips up a lot of people. People like to compare buying DVC to the "cost of money", and to me, that's just not the way to think about it. DVC is a luxury item, and not for everyone. You only buy DVC to save on future resort costs. Period.

That’s why people USED to buy DVC. Now the math is way different. “Saving” when your paying $190 a point is fairly difficult.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Portfolio of timeshares. Even sounds weird.

Perhaps because a portfolio is by definition an attempt to gain/grow...
...while a timeshare is by definition a sunk cost/expense?

 

[Lensman]

Portfolio of timeshares. Even sounds weird.

I dunno. What is the collective noun for several timeshares? A gaggle of timeshares? I think portfolio is used as the collective noun for real estate, so I think it applies even though DVC is a real estate interest and not fee simple ownership.

I know I took your post a bit too seriously, apologies, but I thought it was interesting because at first I did think that portfolio might not be correct.

 

[nickys]

Portfolio of timeshares. Even sounds weird.

It’s a word to denote a collection of assets of some kind, in this case DVC contracts.

I can also have a portfolio of my work, my projects, my collection of just about anything. I could photograph my book cases and cal, it a portfolio .....

Let me clarify, I don’t view DVC an investment of any sort.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I dunno. What is the collective noun for several timeshares? A gaggle of timeshares? I think portfolio is used as the collective noun for real estate, so I think it applies even though DVC is a real estate interest and not fee simple ownership.

I know I took your post a bit too seriously, apologies, but I thought it was interesting because at first I did think that portfolio might not be correct.

A “poopton” of annual fees??

I’d settle for a “pod” or a “bloat”

 

[xdan0920]

It’s a word to denote a collection of assets of some kind, in this case DVC contracts.

I can also have a portfolio of my work, my projects, my collection of just about anything. I could photograph my book cases and cal, it a portfolio .....

Let me clarify, I don’t view DVC an investment of any sort.

Yeah, not sure what to call it. I guess portfolio works, it just sounds strange. Like, who wants a portfolio of time shares?

 

[ChrisFL]

bumpercrop? bushel?

edit: Shedload

 

[Rteetz]