News Disney Riviera Resort announced

[dennis-in-ct]

Renting points works pretty well too, especially with direct prices where they are today. It’s hard to find a break even point vs renting points when buying direct.

When I suggested buying a small contract and using it every 3rd year I meant resale not direct. In my example, if the resale price at Riviera really hit $100 a point or 50% of the rumored direct price and you bought a 50 point contract for $5,000 you could bank and borrow 3 years worth of points to get to 150 points every 3rd year which should get you a week in a studio most times of year. Assuming $6 a point in MFs to start you would be paying $300 per year plus a small increase or roughly $1,000 for the 3 years of points. If you rented 150 points at the going rate of $17 a point you would be paying $2,550 for the points for the week. That’s a savings of $1,550 per stay MFs vs renting. If you assume MFs and point rental rates go up about the same % each year then the increases aren’t really relevant. At the rate of saving around $1,500 a stay after 4 stays or 12 years you would more than break even on your $5K upfront cash payment and still have years of use or potential resale of the points. This is simple math not including time value of money but even with that thrown in you won’t stretch it more than 5 stays or 15 years.

At the $200 direct price it would take 30+ years to break even and depending on assumptions you probably never will.

what is MFs ?

I agree, If I ever bought a DVC, it would be a small contract as you said and use every three years.

 

[GiveMeLibertyTreeTavern]

I was thinking something similar but I read in another thread they are targeting the direct price for Riviera north of $200. How far will resale really drop? If it drops 50% would it be worth buying resale yet at Riviera knowing you can never trade in for another resort? Maybe a small contract that you could use every 3rd year. I’m not a huge fan of staying at the same place every year.

I expect Riviera will come in around $200 direct. What resale prices will be, particularly after the first year or two of sales, is really a wildcard. If they implement the restriction that Riviera resale can only stay at Riviera that will have a HUGE impact on the price.

I'm also not a huge fan of being tied to the same resort every time. The flexibility of the exchange system is extremely valuable. It could settle at $100/pt resale, but maybe even lower? Who knows? If I did buy Riviera resale, and that's a big if, it wouldn't be for several years anyway. It will need to blow me away and the price will need to be really low for me to commit to it. I'm still excited to stay there though, hopefully there will be 7 month availability in 2021!

 

[GoofGoof]

How long before DVC goes after the rental market? That’s a market they don’t get to “wet their beak”.

Anything is possible these days. I see the rental market as another backstop for owners who have a short term hiccup. Maybe you have a financial issue come up or a new job with little vacation time or a new baby and you want to take a year or 2 off you can rent your points out and more than cover the maintenance fees then go back to using it if things change instead of having to sell the points for a short term issue.

The rental market would be a tough one to regulate. How could they differentiate me renting my points for profit vs reserving a room for a good friend or family member. I guess they could require the owner to be present at check in but that’s pretty restrictive. I wonder if there is anything within timeshare law that prevents them from stopping you renting it out.

 

[GoofGoof]

what is MFs ?

I agree, If I ever bought a DVC, it would be a small contract as you said and use every three years.

Maintenance fees.

 

[artvandelay]

Anything is possible these days. I see the rental market as another backstop for owners who have a short term hiccup. Maybe you have a financial issue come up or a new job with little vacation time or a new baby and you want to take a year or 2 off you can rent your points out and more than cover the maintenance fees then go back to using it if things change instead of having to sell the points for a short term issue.

The rental market would be a tough one to regulate. How could they differentiate me renting my points for profit vs reserving a room for a good friend or family member. I guess they could require the owner to be present at check in but that’s pretty restrictive. I wonder if there is anything within timeshare law that prevents them from stopping you renting it out.

They could do what RCI does. If you book a week and it’s not your name on the reservation, you pay a gift, or transfer fee. I thinks it’s around a $125 fee.

 

[GoofGoof]

They could do what RCI does. If you book a week and it’s not your name on the reservation, you pay a gift, or transfer fee. I thinks it’s around a $125 fee.

If it happens I’m blaming you now

I’m surprised they don’t already do it though. It would be easy money.

 

[artvandelay]

If it happens I’m blaming you now

I’m surprised they don’t already do it though. It would be easy money.

I’m surprised too!

 

[GiveMeLibertyTreeTavern]

They could do what RCI does. If you book a week and it’s not your name on the reservation, you pay a gift, or transfer fee. I thinks it’s around a $125 fee.

I can see its utility to both curb the scalpers and generate even more money for Disney. There are people out there that own thousands of points with no intention of using them that go in and scoop up a dozen reservations for in-demand times and rent them out. The people making a business out of it kind of ruin availability for everyone else. If they charged a $150-$250 transfer/gift fee for each reservation I could still pay my maintenance fees, so I guess it's something I could get behind.

 

[GoofGoof]

I can see its utility to both curb the scalpers and generate even more money for Disney. There are people out there that own thousands of points with no intention of using them that go in and scoop up a dozen reservations for in-demand times and rent them out. The people making a business out of it kind of ruin availability for everyone else. If they charged a $150-$250 transfer/gift fee for each reservation I could still pay my maintenance fees, so I guess it's something I could get behind.

It is against the rules to rent out points as a business. I have no idea if or how they enforce it. I think it may be a limit on the number of rentals in a year per owner.

From the member site:
Vacation Points Overview - Frequently Asked Questions
Q.
As a Disney Vacation Club Member, can I rent my Vacation Points?
A.
Members may rent their Vacation Points. However, the use of your Vacation Points for commercial purposes is expressly prohibited. Commercial purpose includes a pattern of rental activity or other occupancy by a Member that the Board of Condominium Association, in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

How about just renting DVC point when you actually want to visit every couple years instead of handing over THOUSANDS and paying fees every year.

I guess it is similar to not buying a car but rather paying for an Uber when you need one.

Cause the people that Buy DVC don’t want to go every couple of years?

The fundamental tie to DVC is That probably 90% of them are fanatics...just only 10% admit it. But the truth is the truth.

 

[GoofGoof]

Cause the people that Buy DVC don’t want to go every couple of years?

The fundamental tie to DVC is That probably 90% of them are fanatics...just only 10% admit it. But the truth is the truth.

I own DVC and only go about every other year... I probably still consider myself a fanatic though

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What was there is no longer relevant. After all, it's not like you'd walk out your door and step on shards from the rubble of Barbados that they forgot to clear. Barbados and half of Martinique were completely leveled and cleared. If your concern is that you don't like the proximity of Riviera to Caribbean Beach, then make that point. For me, that's of little concern. I'm slightly curious to know how they are going to keep CBR guests out of the pool areas, but I don't go in the pools, so I don't particularly care about that.

From the latest concept art it reminds me a bit of the Grand. It certainly looks more distinctive than BLT, which I thoroughly enjoyed after actually staying in but was quite reluctant prior to that. In any case, for me, it's what on the inside that counts. As of today, we still have no information on that other than it including a rooftop restaurant with views of the parks.

This is awesome...I know NOTHING about Caribbean. Not a thing. Not every tidbit, every square inch...revenue...how it’s operated...or all the WDW resorts for that matter...logistics, marketing, business streams and overhead costs.

Now finally I can learn.

I agree it’s a lot like the “grand”...if you accept that the grand isn’t really that great. I don’t know a thing about that place either

 

[GiveMeLibertyTreeTavern]

Cause the people that Buy DVC don’t want to go every couple of years?

The fundamental tie to DVC is That probably 90% of them are fanatics...just only 10% admit it. But the truth is the truth.

I own and only go every 3 years usually. I go through waves of fanaticism.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I own DVC and only go about every other year... I probably still consider myself a fanatic though

You are...

There are generally two types: Those that are and those that lie about it.

I’m not saying you have to wear pins and wheel yourself to chef Mickey’s....certainly you can use it in other ways. But fundamentally your are accepting all that’s in the “big basket of Disney” by tethering yourself to them

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I own and only go every 3 years usually. I go through waves of fanaticism.

But you admitted the fanaticism. How do you go? Five nights in a studio or 14 in an overdesigned unit? Or do you go 3 weeks that year?

We get to the same point in most cases.

 

[GiveMeLibertyTreeTavern]

This is awesome...I know NOTHING about Caribbean. Not a thing. Not every tidbit, every square inch...revenue...how it’s operated...or all the WDW resorts for that matter...logistics, marketing, business streams and overhead costs.

Now finally I can learn.

So you worked at a division that oversaw it? That's cool, although also not relevant to your point about not liking Riviera because it was built on former CBR land - unless you lost your job because they tore part of CBR down or you designed CBR. In which case, I apologize.

But since you know every square inch, I'm curious if you know the story of the plot of land where the Skyliner main hub is being constructed. Was that intended to be part of CBR at some point or was there something else there previously? From aerials it looks like something was there prior to the hub. A staging area for construction maybe?

 

[Creathir]

Cause the people that Buy DVC don’t want to go every couple of years?

The fundamental tie to DVC is That probably 90% of them are fanatics...just only 10% admit it. But the truth is the truth.

Isn’t just about every single member of this board a fanatic as well?

 

[GoofGoof]

You are...

There are generally two types: Those that are and those that lie about it.

I’m not saying you have to wear pins and wheel yourself to chef Mickey’s....certainly you can use it in other ways. But fundamentally your are accepting all that’s in the “big basket of Disney” by tethering yourself to them

I have enough points to bank and borrow and go every other year in the room type I want. I like going other places on vacation too so I don’t go every year. I’m not sure how tethered I am considering I could sell my points right now for quite a bit more than I paid for them, but I have no intention of selling any time soon. I’m still happy visiting WDW every few years. If that ever changes I’ll sell and never look back.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Isn’t just about every single member of this board a fanatic as well?

That would be a “roger” on that...
...which is why it’s funny when somebody wades into a DVC discussion and says “why don’t you just be NORMAL and pay but not buy it?”

That is the opposite of “normal” here...

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

You should be transparent with your DVC rep about how you may not be interested in buying Riviera anymore because of concerns about resale due to the changes in policies. Or at least that it would be a concern of yours. I wonder if your rep would be allowed to confirm or deny the rumor?

I did discuss this with him -- told him that would most definitely factor into our decision-making (we've actually since decided that we're just going to hang onto our SSR points now and not buy Riviera unless something major changes). DVC has confirmed the resale changes -- it's not a rumor at this point.

Statement posted on DVCMember.com:

"Effective January 19, 2019, only Members who purchase directly from Disney will be able to use their Vacation Points at the 14 existing Disney Vacation Club Resorts or future Resorts—such as Disney’s Riviera Resort or Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge. Resale contracts purchased for the existing 14 Disney Vacation Club Resorts will only be able to exchange Points into those 14 Resorts.

This change does not apply to contracts purchased prior to January 19, 2019. Contracts gifted to family members will continue to have the same Resort access as before the ownership transfer.

The eligibility rules for Membership Extras and RCI access remain unchanged.

The Buena Vista Trading Company Disclosure Guide has been amended accordingly."