News Disney Riviera Resort announced

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I read that as the "protected inventory" will be what's declared into DVC. The rest will be cash bookings, and could be a brilliant sales strategy.

This was my thinking as well! We'd fit a rack weekend booking in there somewhere to test drive Riviera. (that said, with the recent changes we're very unlikely to consider buying... probably just try booking with our SSR points at 7mo.)

 

[carolina_yankee]

This was my thinking as well! We'd fit a rack weekend booking in there somewhere to test drive Riviera. (that said, with the recent changes we're very unlikely to consider buying... probably just try booking with our SSR points at 7mo.)

I'm really going to be curious at how the resort is received. There will be many reasons, I think, to justify owning a contract there if you want to stay there after it's sold out, and I think there will be many reasons a resale contract would have value even if it's trading ability is more limited.

I have high expectations for Riviera, but time will tell if any of us are right.

Dirk

 

[GoofGoof]

Isn’t this standard practice for any DVC resort? They all open with more cash rooms than DVC available and then as the points sell it moves the other way. DVC owners using points will be competing for the declared rooms and cash guests for the cash rooms. There won’t be any issues with cash guests taking rooms from DVC owners. Just the normal process.

 

[nickys]

Isn’t this standard practice for any DVC resort? They all open with more cash rooms than DVC available and then as the points sell it moves the other way. DVC owners using points will be competing for the declared rooms and cash guests for the cash rooms. There won’t be any issues with cash guests taking rooms from DVC owners. Just the normal process.

But this appears to be the first time they are opening cash bookings ahead of even sales starting. So actually totally unprecedented.

 

[carolina_yankee]

Isn’t this standard practice for any DVC resort? They all open with more cash rooms than DVC available and then as the points sell it moves the other way. DVC owners using points will be competing for the declared rooms and cash guests for the cash rooms. There won’t be any issues with cash guests taking rooms from DVC owners. Just the normal process.

But this appears to be the first time they are opening cash bookings ahead of even sales starting. So actually totally unprecedented.

Also the announcement itself - both a bit of assurance and anticipating damage control. They must know that DVC members on the internet are a bit antsy these days.

We still have no information on a sales date. Usually, there's an announcement that sales begin x date, home priority bookings for owners begin y date, and general DVC bookings begin z date (as little a few weeks out after owners can book when a resort first opens). I don't recall any fanfare or announcement around cash sales. It's just known that happens.

Dirk

 

[Calmdownnow]

Interesting to see the machinations. Disney identifies the need for many more rooms short-term to meet demand for on-site accommodation in the first 18-24 months of Star Wars opening, but doesn't want to bear the cost long-term of building a big new resort. The answer is build a big new resort in the name of DVC, utilize the rooms during the high demand period for cash guests while slowly releasing points to the dvc sales market. Then sell out the resort to DVC buyers over the next three years and recoup the costs of the build as people buy the points.

 

[GoofGoof]

But this appears to be the first time they are opening cash bookings ahead of even sales starting. So actually totally unprecedented.

Also the announcement itself - both a bit of assurance and anticipating damage control. They must know that DVC members on the internet are a bit antsy these days.

We still have no information on a sales date. Usually, there's an announcement that sales begin x date, home priority bookings for owners begin y date, and general DVC bookings begin z date (as little a few weeks out after owners can book when a resort first opens). I don't recall any fanfare or announcement around cash sales. It's just known that happens.

Dirk

I guess I don’t see what the problem is. Cash and DVC bookings are completely separate. They won’t open DVC bookings to current DVC owners looking to trade in before sales start and new Riviera owners get first priority. For cash rooms there’s apparently some big new thing opening at DHS this fall that some people think will be pretty popular and this resort connects with DHS via a brand new transportation experience. It’s a no brainer why they would roll out cash room bookings as soon as they have a firm opening date. I’m sure the cash rooms will be at deluxe+ rates.

 

[MisterPenguin]

But this appears to be the first time they are opening cash bookings ahead of even sales starting. So actually totally unprecedented.

Riviera will have 300 rooms. That's 15,600 DVC weeks, or, 109,500 DVC days.

Maybe WDW just assumes they won't sell out of DVC points immediately, and they'd rather have a mostly-booked resort.

 

[GoofGoof]

Interesting to see the machinations. Disney identifies the need for many more rooms short-term to meet demand for on-site accommodation in the first 18-24 months of Star Wars opening, but doesn't want to bear the cost long-term of building a big new resort. The answer is build a big new resort in the name of DVC, utilize the rooms during the high demand period for cash guests while slowly releasing points to the dvc sales market. Then sell out the resort to DVC buyers over the next three years and recoup the costs of the build as people buy the points.

That’s really what they do with every DVC project. Disney gets paid upfront for most of the profit a hotel would have made over 50 years and the maintenance fees cover the operating costs. In this case, I agree the timing worked out really well with the opening of SW:GE

 

[Calmdownnow]

That’s really what they do with every DVC project. Disney gets paid upfront for most of the profit a hotel would have made over 50 years and the maintenance fees cover the operating costs. In this case, I agree the timing worked out really well with the opening of SW:GE

I think that this is the first new DVC build (as in a total resort since SSR in 2004, or you may count BLT as a new resort) so the first time the build costs will have been relatively high. I don't think it is a question of the timing working out well, I am assuming it is deliberate timing. I suppose that my real concern is that depending on the guest demand for on-site rooms, Disney can delay the release of tranches of rooms/points for sale as long as they like, but ultimately the cost of the building the resort will fall on those who become members at Riviera. The question really is whether DVC is subsidizing the Disney model above and beyond what we already knew when we joined. A forensic accountant could probably have a field day exploring how one part of the corporation said "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours."

Edit: sorry, I forgot AKL Kidani as a new build -- but still some years ago.

 

[GoofGoof]

I think that this is the first new DVC build (as in a total resort since SSR in 2004, or you may count BLT as a new resort) so the first time the build costs will have been relatively high. I don't think it is a question of the timing working out well, I am assuming it is deliberate timing. I suppose that my real concern is that depending on the guest demand for on-site rooms, Disney can delay the release of tranches of rooms/points for sale as long as they like, but ultimately the cost of the building the resort will fall on those who become members at Riviera. The question really is whether DVC is subsidizing the Disney model above and beyond what we already knew when we joined. A forensic accountant could probably have a field day exploring how one part of the corporation said "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours."

AK (Lodge and villas built together), BLT and GF were all new build as well as bungalows at Poly (25% of total points) and the cabins at Wilderness (plus Aulani outside of WDW). The last 2 projects were majority conversion of existing rooms.

DVC is super profitable for Disney. It’s also an independent division with its own targets. I don’t see the management of the DVC division holding back points and not selling them so the rooms can be booked for cash stays. It’s way more profitable to sell the points. The timing is deliberate as it relates to the skyliner project. They had plans for a while to build DVC at CBR and could possibly have moved Copper Creek ahead because Skyliner wouldn’t be built yet. The new River Country project is up next and I wouldn’t be surprised to see the EPCOT parking lot idea come next right after EPCOT gets it’s Guardians love. DVC will time the projects to use new additions to the parks to help sell points if it works out.

I’m not buying the conspiracy theory that they wanted to have a temporary hotel for the open of SW Land, but it would be stupid not to rent those rooms out to cash guests if they aren’t filled.

 

[carolina_yankee]

I guess I don’t see what the problem is. Cash and DVC bookings are completely separate. They won’t open DVC bookings to current DVC owners looking to trade in before sales start and new Riviera owners get first priority. For cash rooms there’s apparently some big new thing opening at DHS this fall that some people think will be pretty popular and this resort connects with DHS via a brand new transportation experience. It’s a no brainer why they would roll out cash room bookings as soon as they have a firm opening date. I’m sure the cash rooms will be at deluxe+ rates.

It’s not a problem to me. It’s just the announcement of the process is new, with emphasis on cash access prior to DVC stays or announced sales.

Dirk

 

[carolina_yankee]

AK (Lodge and villas built together), BLT and GF were all new build as well as bungalows at Poly (25% of total points) and the cabins at Wilderness (plus Aulani outside of WDW). The last 2 projects were majority conversion of existing rooms.

DVC is super profitable for Disney. It’s also an independent division with its own targets. I don’t see the management of the DVC division holding back points and not selling them so the rooms can be booked for cash stays. It’s way more profitable to sell the points. The timing is deliberate as it relates to the skyliner project. They had plans for a while to build DVC at CBR and could possibly have moved Copper Creek ahead because Skyliner wouldn’t be built yet. The new River Country project is up next and I wouldn’t be surprised to see the EPCOT parking lot idea come next right after EPCOT gets it’s Guardians love. DVC will time the projects to use new additions to the parks to help sell points if it works out.

I’m not buying the conspiracy theory that they wanted to have a temporary hotel for the open of SW Land, but it would be stupid not to rent those rooms out to cash guests if they aren’t filled.

That may have not been the plan but it is pretty darn convenient.

 

[peter11435]

AK (Lodge and villas built together), BLT and GF were all new build as well as bungalows at Poly (25% of total points) and the cabins at Wilderness (plus Aulani outside of WDW). The last 2 projects were majority conversion of existing rooms.

I think he meant it was the first entirely new resort since SS. Those others you mentioned while utilizing new builds, were tacked on to existing resorts long after their parent resorts were constructed. They used existing infrastructure and did not require their own dedicated services.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This looks like it'll be a great resort!

Based on????

Anyone else wondering how they can take public bookings this month if they don’t have an opening date?

Not to mention wondering how the *@£#*# they can take public bookings ie: cash, before members are able to book. Shouldn’t those buying at Riviera get first dibs, then existing members, then the public?

This has really p**d me off, big time.

Easy, Newt

Perhaps they have not sold as many points as they anticipated, so they have extra rooms available for the public?

...or any

I guess I'm not that jaded about DVC... yet... But it would be nice to know the size of the block being held aside...

How many DVC policy “enhancements” and price hikes inside “the world” will it take?

...asking for a friend

 

[GoofGoof]

I think he meant it was the first entirely new resort since SS. Those others you mentioned while utilizing new builds, were tacked on to existing resorts long after their parent resorts were constructed. They used existing infrastructure and did not require their own dedicated services.

I don’t have the numbers to quantify it, but if this resort has about the same number of rooms as BLT why would it cost significantly more to build? Inflation aside, they had to knock down existing buildings at both and build a tower on the water and a dedicated lobby, pool area and amenities. Pretty similar projects. The physical amenities shared by BLT with CR are mostly retail and dining which are profit centers anyway so costs wouldn’t be passed on to buyers of Riviera. Transportation, security and maintenance may be shared as well but that’s covered by maintenance fees not initial point sales.

I’m not sure why they would feel the need to lay off some of the cost to build Riviera by holding back points from sales so they can rent out cash rooms. If they sell about 6M points (BLT has 5.7M and roughly the same number of rooms) at $200 a point (the current rumor) that’s $1.2 billion in sales. Billion with a B. Not a typo. Why would they delay bringing in a portion of billions of dollars in revenue to get a few cash rooms rented.

 

[GoofGoof]

It’s not a problem to me. It’s just the announcement of the process is new, with emphasis on cash access prior to DVC stays or announced sales.

Dirk

I get what you are saying. Yes, I think the push for SW is driving the push for cash rooms.

That may have not been the plan but it is pretty darn convenient.

It is. On the flip side, for DVC they will also get a bunch of cash hotel guests to stay at their new resort...lots of potential new sales leads.

 

[NiarrNDisney]

This looks like it'll be a great resort!

It looks like a very toned down version of Lowes Portofino Bay

 

[Lensman]

Maybe Riviera is coming online while they still have a bunch of Copper Creek points remaining to sell? Does anyone know or is able to guess at how far Copper Creek is from selling out?

My thinking is that if they still have a lot of Copper Creek points remaining to sell, they might not need to declare that much of Riviera into DVC immediately. I'd also guess that they'd want to give Copper Creek as much time as possible to get close to selling out.

Anyway, just another idea I wanted to throw into the pot for consideration/discussion.

 

[GoofGoof]

Maybe Riviera is coming online while they still have a bunch of Copper Creek points remaining to sell? Does anyone know or is able to guess at how far Copper Creek is from selling out?

My thinking is that if they still have a lot of Copper Creek points remaining to sell, they might not need to declare that much of Riviera into DVC immediately. I'd also guess that they'd want to give Copper Creek as much time as possible to get close to selling out.

Anyway, just another idea I wanted to throw into the pot for consideration/discussion.

Per dvcnews as of the end of December Copper Creek had sold 65% of the points and was on pace to be sold out by the end of August. There’s about a million points left to sell at Copper Creek but DVC averaged about 180,000 points a month sold at all resorts last year so it’s not as much as it seems.