News Disney removing plastic straws and more by mid-2019

[s8film40]

People have been conditioned to like ice in a cup. The end.

Oh I totally agree, and I'm definitely on the side of "you have what you want your way, and I'll have what I want my way". I think it's funny though that countless people will come on here and scoff at the idea that anyone should have a problem with Disney taking away plastic straws, yet mention taking away ice and they freak out.

 

[King Racoon 77]

I don’t see why people need to drink sugar water all day in refillable mugs. So I don’t partake.

 

[AEfx]

I specifically said logical reasons. I've been told that it makes the drink fizzier, it makes it two degrees cooler and now that the syrup is somehow someway "specifically formulated for ice" whatever that means. So yeah a bunch of non tangible and relatively insignificant nonsense. But by all means go ahead and call me silly for thinking because a drink is in a cup instead of a bottle it somehow can't be consumed without ice, haha!

It isn't that they can't be, but people explaining why they do.

It is absolutely amazing that you somehow are able to not only absorb some of these things, but can regurgitate them, and still don't get it.

Do you even know how fountain soda works? Do you not understand the science behind it, or realize how many millions of dollars have been spent over the decades to refine formulas and processes? And do you not understand that those formulas and processes are designed around having an iced drink? Both in terms of mix levels and temprature/chemical reactions?

Seriously, you realize that food and beverage science is a thing, right? Have you ever seen behind a machine to realize how many things are going on back there?

What is hilarious is that you don't even know enough about this to realize that it is MOST ENERGY EFFICIENT TO USE ICE! It is far more energy efficient to make ice in a small container within a machine than to have to refrigerate the entire machine and all the canisters within it to deliver the drink at the temprature range that they scientifically decided was optimum for serving and that they people paying the huge prices for it wish it served at.

So yeah, to answer your inane question, we could spend tens if not hundreds of millions to redesign the entire system of fountain drinks to not need ice, but there is no reason to because 99.9% of people like it that way - and it would be less energy efficient to do so.

 

[King Racoon 77]

It isn't that they can't be, but people explaining why they do.

It is absolutely amazing that you somehow are able to not only absorb some of these things, but can regurgitate them, and still don't get it.

Do you even know how fountain soda works? Do you not understand the science behind it, or realize how many millions of dollars have been spent over the decades to refine formulas and processes? And do you not understand that those formulas and processes are designed around having an iced drink? Both in terms of mix levels and temprature/chemical reactions?

Seriously, you realize that food and beverage science is a thing, right? Have you ever seen behind a machine to realize how many things are going on back there?

What is hilarious is that you don't even know enough about this to realize that it is MOST ENERGY EFFICIENT TO USE ICE! It is far more energy efficient to make ice in a small container within a machine than to have to refrigerate the entire machine and all the canisters within it to deliver the drink at the temprature range that they scientifically decided was optimum for serving and that they people paying the huge prices for it wish it served at.

So yeah, to answer your inane question, we could spend tens if not hundreds of millions to redesign the entire system of fountain drinks to not need ice, but there is no reason to because 99.9% of people like it that way - and it would be less energy efficient to do so.

Spoiler: #Fakenews

 

[s8film40]

It isn't that they can't be, but people explaining why they do.

It is absolutely amazing that you somehow are able to not only absorb some of these things, but can regurgitate them, and still don't get it.

Do you even know how fountain soda works? Do you not understand the science behind it, or realize how many millions of dollars have been spent over the decades to refine formulas and processes? And do you not understand that those formulas and processes are designed around having an iced drink? Both in terms of mix levels and temprature/chemical reactions?

Seriously, you realize that food and beverage science is a thing, right? Have you ever seen behind a machine to realize how many things are going on back there?

What is hilarious is that you don't even know enough about this to realize that it is MOST ENERGY EFFICIENT TO USE ICE! It is far more energy efficient to make ice in a small container within a machine than to have to refrigerate the entire machine and all the canisters within it to deliver the drink at the temprature range that they scientifically decided was optimum for serving and that they people paying the huge prices for it wish it served at.

So yeah, to answer your inane question, we could spend tens if not hundreds of millions to redesign the entire system of fountain drinks to not need ice, but there is no reason to because 99.9% of people like it that way - and it would be less energy efficient to do so.

Haha, well if you want to play soda expert please by all means don't let me interfere. I think everyone here can just judge for themselves.

For me like I said to begin with I have drinks with and without ice there's hardly any noticeable difference at all. So for all that tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of soda science they didn't spend they somehow manage to make a product that is pretty much the same either way you have it.

 

[The Mom]

Haha, well if you want to play soda expert please by all means don't let me interfere. I think everyone here can just judge for themselves.

For me like I said to begin with I have drinks with and without ice there's hardly any noticeable difference at all. So for all that tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of soda science they didn't spend they somehow manage to make a product that is pretty much the same either way you have it.

Just for the heck of it, I did a quick experiment to see if there was any difference in how cold iced vs un-iced drinks- from the same bottle at the same temp in the refrigerator - would be. I was surprised that pouring it over ice (and then removing the ice to take the temperature) actually cooled the soda about 15 degrees F cooler than the one poured directly into the same size glass. If the ice had been kept in, it would probably have kept it cooler for a while, but the un-iced drink would gradually reach room temperature.

15 degrees might not be noticable to some, but was very noticable to me when I sipped each one.

 

[AEfx]

So for all that tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of soda science they didn't spend...

That's millions, not thousands.

I mean, do you realize how much money went into the development of the Freestyle machine?

For me like I said to begin with I have drinks with and without ice there's hardly any noticeable difference at all.

I'm really sorry that you don't get to experience what the rest of us do. Explains a lot.

 

[AEfx]

Just for the heck of it, I did a quick experiment to see if there was any difference in how cold iced vs un-iced drinks- from the same bottle at the same temp in the refrigerator - would be. I was surprised that pouring it over ice (and then removing the ice to take the temperature) actually cooled the soda about 15 degrees F cooler than the one poured directly into the same size glass. If the ice had been kept in, it would probably have kept it cooler for a while, but the un-iced drink would gradually reach room temperature.

15 degrees might not be noticable to some, but was very noticable to me when I sipped each one.

And imagine the energy that would be required to keep your entire fridge 15 degrees cooler 24/7, instead!

 

[s8film40]

That's millions, not thousands.

I mean, do you realize how much money went into the development of the Freestyle machine?

I only copied the number you said, you said tens or thousands, you're the soda expert after all. Now you're saying millions, okay I'm good with whatever number you want to use.

Edit: Nevermind I see where you said millions, in any case the number was irrelevant and I only meant to copy what you said, I guess I just couldn't believe it would cost hundreds of millions to research how to make soda two degrees colder.

 

[s8film40]

Just for the heck of it, I did a quick experiment to see if there was any difference in how cold iced vs un-iced drinks- from the same bottle at the same temp in the refrigerator - would be. I was surprised that pouring it over ice (and then removing the ice to take the temperature) actually cooled the soda about 15 degrees F cooler than the one poured directly into the same size glass. If the ice had been kept in, it would probably have kept it cooler for a while, but the un-iced drink would gradually reach room temperature.

15 degrees might not be noticable to some, but was very noticable to me when I sipped each one.

Just curios did you measure this? 15 seems like a lot, I mean if you had a bottled drink refrigerated at 40 and poured it over ice to cool it to 25 that seems pretty cold. Also would you normally just drink the refrigerated bottle without ice? That's kind of my point is most people seem to think it's perfectly normal to drink a refrigerated bottle of soda yet it absolutely ludicrous to drink a refrigerated fountain soda without ice. There's seems to be very little difference yet they are treated very differently.

 

[The Mom]

Just curios did you measure this? 15 seems like a lot, I mean if you had a bottled drink refrigerated at 40 and poured it over ice to cool it to 25 that seems pretty cold. Also would you normally just drink the refrigerated bottle without ice? That's kind of my point is most people seem to think it's perfectly normal to drink a refrigerated bottle of soda yet it absolutely ludicrous to drink a refrigerated fountain soda without ice. There's seems to be very little difference yet they are treated very differently.

Yes, I have a very nice (expensive) laser temperature scanner that I purchased for my son's science fair project (having to do with combustion temperatures of various objects) several years ago. The uniced soda started to lose "coolness" almost immediately, which probably explains the unexpected (by me) variation in temperature. The ice had lowered the temperature more than refrigerator temp (down to 32.5) in one glass at the same time that the other was getting warmer. So, the iced drink hadn't gotten back to the original warmer refrigerator temperature while the uniced drink was getting warmer - up to 47F in the time it took me to remove the ice and then compare temperatures of both drinks.

Now, if I had put the iced drink in glass, and the uniced drink in a thermal cup there probably wouldn't have been as much variation. If this had been done outdoors (today) it would have made a difference. It was a quick test done in my kitchen, not in a 100% controlled environment. But then again, that's how most of us consume our soft drinks. I have no problem drinking soda from a single serve bottle, or can, without ice. But if I pour it into a glass I prefer the ice. Just personal taste, I guess. But I don't use a straw at home, either.

 

[flynnibus]

15 seems like a lot, I mean if you had a bottled drink refrigerated at 40 and poured it over ice to cool it to 25 that seems pretty cold

My thermodynamics education is just exploding in my head...

That's kind of my point is most people seem to think it's perfectly normal to drink a refrigerated bottle of soda yet it absolutely ludicrous to drink a refrigerated fountain soda without ice. There's seems to be very little difference yet they are treated very differently

Because they are different - not the same as you keep believing.
Different temperatures...
Different mixes of product...
Different packaging...
Different overall heat capacity...

What you think is trivial differences in temperature, actually mean a lot when you are dealing with SCIENCE and not just lay beliefs.

The customer satisfaction of the product is a blend of it's taste, it's level of carbonation, and it's temperature. It doesn't take huge swings to make a noticeable impact to the consumer. Soda fountains used to be far more fickle to dial in correctly because of these variations.

 

[s8film40]

My thermodynamics education is just exploding in my head...



Because they are different - not the same as you keep believing.
Different temperatures...
Different mixes of product...
Different packaging...
Different overall heat capacity...

What you think is trivial differences in temperature, actually mean a lot when you are dealing with SCIENCE and not just lay beliefs.

The customer satisfaction of the product is a blend of it's taste, it's level of carbonation, and it's temperature. It doesn't take huge swings to make a noticeable impact to the consumer. Soda fountains used to be far more fickle to dial in correctly because of these variations.

Like I’ve said several times now I’m really only speaking to my perspective. The differences to me are very negligible. Personally to me the difference between drinking through a paper straw and a plastic straw is greater than the difference between a fountain soda with or without ice and or bottled soda at different temperatures. Others here have certainly also pointed out a personal preference in straws and how it affects their experience of the soda. So let’s take everything you’ve said at face value, do you think the soda needs to be refomated for paper straws? Also my understanding is in other parts of the world it’s far more common to serve fountain soda without ice. I have no personal experience with that, but are the fountains and syrup in these other places different. Do they actually sell ice and no ice soda syrup?

 

[flynnibus]

So let’s take everything you’ve said at face value, do you think the soda needs to be refomated for paper straws? Also my understanding is in other parts of the world it’s far more common to serve fountain soda without ice. I have no personal experience with that, but are the fountains and syrup in these other places different. Do they actually sell ice and no ice soda syrup?

You are completely misapplying the other poster's comment about 'formulated for ice' - In a fountain drink, the ratio of syrup to water is a huge factor in taste and 'texture' in the drink (how heavy it is or not). I believe what he was referring to was how the syrup ratios are set expecting an amount of contribution of ice. In both carbonation levels and syrup ratios due to the water contribution - not that they syrup is different itself. Syrup for distribution for fountain drinks is different than bottling plants tho AFAIK.

Second, yes, syrup is different in other parts of the world. This is why you can buy 'mexico coke' now here... we use HFC in the US, many other countries do not... instead using true sugar. The difference is quite noticeable.

As for no ice, yes it's common practice in some other countries... but it's practice and culture that pre-dates soda. The behavior is more tradition than science driven. (stigmas about dirty ice.. or the preference for spirits or wine). You'll also notice that europe prefers carbonated water over non (they call it still water). Where as here, tonic and carbonated water w/o flavor is not common at all except in older people. Why? It's what people are brought up with and cultural expectations. Same thing can be said for portion sizes...

I've read stuff about the properties of carbonation in different containers... foam vs paper/wax, etc.. but I've not seen anything that would suggest significant impacts to customer satisfaction. But I've not researched that specifically either...

 

[DisneyLover]

Chopsticks for all.

That’s a good one, though!

 

[s8film40]

The behavior is more tradition than science driven. (stigmas about dirty ice.. or the preference for spirits or wine). You'll also notice that europe prefers carbonated water over non (they call it still water). Where as here, tonic and carbonated water w/o flavor is not common at all except in older people. Why? It's what people are brought up with and cultural expectations.

It’s interesting I was brought up in this country and always given sodas with ice until I realized I preferred them without ice on my own. For me it’s not about culture and tradition but preference. To me being able to have the soda fill my mouth while drinking from a cup is just far more preferable then sucking it through a tiny straw. I also really like plain carbonated water, again not from culture or tradition but rather something I learned to like on my own. Perhaps I was just born on the wrong continent.

In any case I wonder how prevalent straws are in European countries. Maybe this new straw ban will encourage people here to give soda without ice a try and realize they actually like it better or that at least it’s not really that different.

 

[AEfx]

To me being able to have the soda fill my mouth while drinking from a cup is just far more preferable then sucking it through a tiny straw.

Ouch. Be careful. Drinking soda and fruit juice without a straw is a leading cause of dental erosion, which is why studies recommend using straws when drinking the beverages, period.

 

[s8film40]

Ouch. Be careful. Drinking soda and fruit juice without a straw is a leading cause of dental erosion, which is why studies recommend using straws when drinking the beverages, period.

Haha, you’re just an expert on everything huh. Don’t worry I probably drink a lot less soda than the average person.

 

[_caleb]

B
Biodegradable plant based plastics are not without their own problems

Bioplastics and biodegradable plastics have long been controversial. Manufacturers like to portray them as a magic-bullet solution to the problem of plastics that won't go away. Bioplastics, for example, are touted as saving 30–80 percent of the greenhouse gas emissions you'd get from normal plastics and they can give food longer shelf-life in stores. But here are some of the drawbacks:

• When some biodegradable plastics decompose in landfills, they produce methane gas. This is a very powerful greenhouse gas that adds to the problem of global warming.
• Biodegradable plastics and bioplastics don't always readily decompose. Some need exposure to UV (ultraviolet) light or relatively high temperatures and, in some conditions, can still take many years to break down. Even then, they may leave behind micro-fragments or toxic residues.
• Bioplastics are made from plants such as corn and maize, so land that could be used to grow food for the world is being used to "grow plastic" instead. By 2014, almost a quarter of US grain production was expected to have been turned over to biofuels and bioplastics production; taking more agricultural land out of production could cause a significant rise in food prices that would hit poorest people hardest.
• Growing crops to make bioplastics comes with the usual environmental impacts of intensive agriculture, including greenhouse emissions from the petroleum needed to fuel farm machinery, and water pollution caused by runoff from land where fertilizers are used in industrial quantities. In some cases, these indirect impacts from "growing" bioplastics are greater than if we simply made plastics from petroleum in the first place.
• Some bioplastics, such as PLA, are made from genetically modified corn. Some environmentalists consider GM (genetically modified) crops to be inherently harmful to the environment, though others disagree.
• Bioplastics and biodegradable plastics cannot be easily recycled. To most people, PLA looks very similar to PET (polyethylene terephthalate) but, if the two are mixed up in a recycling bin, the whole collection becomes impossible to recycle. There are fears that increasing use of PLA may undermine existing efforts to recycle plastics.
• Many people think terms like "bioplastic," "biodegradable," and "compostable" mean exactly the same thing. But there's a huge difference between a "biodegradable" plastic (one that might take decades or centuries to break down) and a truly "compostable" material (something that turns almost entirely into benign waste after a matter of months in a composter), while "bioplastic," as we've already seen, can also mean different things. Confusing jargon hampers public understanding, which makes it harder for consumers to grasp the issues and make positive choices when they shop.

Thanks for pasting this, but none of these drawbacks would apply to a Disney Parks adoption of biodegradable plant-based cups/lids/straws.

If they were to adopt compostable bioplastics, Disney would surely implement an industrial (aerated static pile) composting system. This approach is faster, cleaner and safer than landfills, and does not result in the same methane release you'd find in encapsulated (landfill) composting. Because ALL cold cups, lids, and straws would be the same material in the parks, the entire system could be optimized for one specific plant-based material so there wouldn't be confusion between PLA and PET plastics.

Corn and soybeans are already heavily subsidized in the U.S. and we grow more than we need (most is not food-grade corn and is instead used to produce ethanol, alcohol, feed, and HFCS). Farmers use less fertilizer and pesticides for corn and soybeans than for other crops, so the environmental impact is minimal compared to petroleum-based manufacturing.

I don't think Disney has said what alternatives to plastic straws they're considering. But plant-based plastics seem like they might be a good and inexpensive option for a large yet closed operation like the Disney parks.

 

[21stamps]

Take away straws = panic and loss of “freedom” plus a war on Christmas.

Take away ice...

View attachment 300024

I’m offended by the “conservative” reference here.
I’m a right wing nut job and I’m all for less plastics.

To everyone who has been talking about Starbucks, take a look at their company, and what they’ve always been. If we’re calling the Starbucks announcement a marketing ploy, then their entire green mission has been a marketing ploy for years .. you probably should have jumped on the bandwagon back then.