News Disney removing plastic straws and more by mid-2019

[jaklgreen]

See, this is the exact reason I use when people ask how I would want to order soda without ice. The soda is served cold and it’s too hard to drink through a straw, yet everyone seems to think they “need” ice.

I think you are the only person that I have ever heard say that soda is "hard to drink through a straw".

 

[HockityPockity]

When you look at "mismanaged plastic" (IOW, not recycled, not sequestered, just dumped somewhere) that winds up in the ocean, there are several Asian countries that are out of control with just dumping all their plastic there. Their wanton disregard dwarfs what other countries do. It can make what other countries do look trivial **by comparison**.

But in absolute terms, hundreds of thousands of metric tons of 'mismanaged' plastic is getting into the oceans via the U.S. per year. That's not good. Pointing out that there are countries doing twenty to fifty times worse doesn't mean we shouldn't be doing better.

So, the comparison is purposely meant to trivialize a still-important issue (thanks, big petrol and knee-jerk wingnuts!).

Further trivializing the issue is pointing out how much of the U.S.'s plastic is straws. Such a tiny, tiny fraction! But the problem with straws is the outsized effect they have on aquatic animals. Also, a tiny fraction of hundreds of thousands of metric tons is still... a lot.

Getting back to the country comparisons... do you know why the U.S. dumps *relatively* little plastic into the ocean *compared to* those Asian countries? It's precisely because of efforts to *manage* our plastic garbage through reduction in use, re-use in recycling, and disposing in landfills rather than the ocean. It's because of efforts like McDonald's using recycled paper and paper board and all the other stuff like switching to papers straws that we don't have as much plastic garbage to dump in the ocean as the Philippines. Or do you think that somehow the Philippines are producing ten times the amount of garbage overall than the U.S.? Nobody beats our consumption!!

It's not our low consumption that makes us relatively light polluters of the ocean, it's our efforts to manage plastic waste effectively. If we weren't doing all this environmental 'stuff' like switching to paper, we'd be right up there with China.

And that's why the comparison chart doesn't prove that switching to paper straws is an idiotic fool's quest, but it proves that all our efforts of conservation are working.

The comparison chart also made me stop and think, “Wait a minute. Where are we GETTING our plastic products from? Are we producing them here in the U.S.? Or are we buying them from those top three Asian countries in the chart? If those countries are the top MAKERS of the plastic products that the rest of the planet uses, then, yeah, they are going to be the top plastic polluters. But until sales go down, until we stop demanding the plastic products, we are just as responsible for the pollution as those countries. Strongest opinion I’ve ever posted on here. I will now brace for impact. Some of you play HARD!

 

[s8film40]

I think you are the only person that I have ever heard say that soda is "hard to drink through a straw".

Sorry I mistyped that. What I meant is it’s hard to drink straight out of cup with ice hence the need for a straw.

 

[jaklgreen]

Sorry I mistyped that. What I meant is it’s hard to drink straight out of cup with ice hence the need for a straw.

LOL well that does make more sense. I agree with that and I prefer a straw when there is ice in the cup. Too many times the stupid ice came crashing down on my mouth making the soda spill everywhere.

 

[s8film40]

You ever turn on your faucet and notice how cold the water is? Your normal tap water will be in the mid to low 50s in temperature.

The passive heat exchanger frequently used (as mentioned above) drops the temp down quickly to try to get to about 40deg - but it's just a quick pass through a heat exchanger on it's way through - not high volume system storing the fluid cold. Basically, the machines use the ice box and a heat exchanger to lower the temp to ease and reduce the pressure needed to dissolve the co2.

Different dispensers use different systems... but at best, some use a two pass heat exchanger system as the water or syrup pass through. They don't store or accumulate the water to chill - unlike a water fountain with chiller. They steal the benefit of the icebox (or use a peltier cooler) to do the quick and dirty.

Every soda fountain I’ve ever seen the water (non carbonated) that comes out is significantly colder than tap water and is on par with every beer I’ve ever had on tap. So regardless of the differences the outcome is the same.

Because people don't want watered down beer... but watered down soda doesn't taste all that different. We don't generally drink beer in 'to go' situations... so we address the need to keep beer cold with other tricks like cold glasses.

Beer is a horrible comparison. It's dispensed entirely different from soda. It's taste profile is entirely different.



No, it's simple science. The cup with ice will be colder, hence holding more co2 and it will hold it's temperature longer than the cup without ice. Simple conservation of energy.

Now overfilling the ice? Yes, that's purely about cheating on portions.

I don’t like my soda watered down any more than I like my beer watered down.

Science would say that as long as a drink is properly chilled adding ice won’t make it colder. Also why are people okay with bottled sodas since there’s no ice there? I really think the mass public appeal of ice in soda is purely psychological it just makes no sense logically.

Anyway I find it interesting that people can willingly be okay with banning plastic straws, but not so much ice. Removing ice would also have great environmental benefits and make for cleaner more efficient facilities and at the same time eliminate the need for straws either paper or plastic. It’s a win-win.

 

[flynnibus]

Science would say that as long as a drink is properly chilled adding ice won’t make it colder

Incorrect - because you refuse to actually learn the specifics of the matter at hand. Iced water is colder than the water dispensed from fountains. The fountain if setup optimally will dispense at around 40deg. Refridgerated water should be around 37 degrees.. and iced water will be closer to 32deg.

Your 'properly chilled' drink never even STARTS anywhere near the temp of the iced drink...

Second, the iced drink will be able to absorb far more heat before raising the overall temperature of the drink. So while you may feel your non-iced drink is 'cold enough' - it will warm significantly faster than the drink with ice in it.

Also why are people okay with bottled sodas since there’s no ice there?

For one... the drink is normally purchased refrigerated... which we've already covered is starts off COLDER. The packaging also reduces the outgassing of the carbonation. Notice most people CAP their soda bottle ?

And for beer... understand, it normally is targeted for 38deg dispensing and storage. Again... colder.

 

[JennSmith]

Reasonably cold is in the eye of the beholder. Maybe some things taste better to someone icy cold versus reasonably cold, while with others it doesn't matter as much. The same with piping hot versus reasonably hot - some people prefer some foods at a hotter temperature.

This exactly. When I worked at Starbucks and wanted water to drink, I would fill the cup to the top with ice and then fill it with the hot water for the tea. Perfect temp...for me!

 

[_caleb]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned plant-based plastic alternatives. There are several companies that manufacture cups, lids, and straws that look and function exactly like the plastic versions, but biodegrade completely. I bet many of us have used them and not even known it.

I'm in favor of removing plastic straws, whether it's for marketing/appearances, cost-saving, or genuine concern for the environment. We use too much plastic in general, and moving away from when possible it is always a good idea.

 

[Gitson Shiggles]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned plant-based plastic alternatives. There are several companies that manufacture cups, lids, and straws that look and function exactly like the plastic versions, but biodegrade completely. I bet many of us have used them and not even known it.

I'm in favor of removing plastic straws, whether it's for marketing/appearances, cost-saving, or genuine concern for the environment. We use too much plastic in general, and moving away from when possible it is always a good idea.

Blaze Pizza uses plant-based plastics. Has anyone tried their straws and noticed a difference?

 

[John park hopper]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned plant-based plastic alternatives. There are several companies that manufacture cups, lids, and straws that look and function exactly like the plastic versions, but biodegrade completely. I bet many of us have used them and not even known it.

I'm in favor of removing plastic straws, whether it's for marketing/appearances, cost-saving, or genuine concern for the environment. We use too much plastic in general, and moving away from when possible it is always a good idea.

B
Biodegradable plant based plastics are not without their own problems

Bioplastics and biodegradable plastics have long been controversial. Manufacturers like to portray them as a magic-bullet solution to the problem of plastics that won't go away. Bioplastics, for example, are touted as saving 30–80 percent of the greenhouse gas emissions you'd get from normal plastics and they can give food longer shelf-life in stores. But here are some of the drawbacks:

• When some biodegradable plastics decompose in landfills, they produce methane gas. This is a very powerful greenhouse gas that adds to the problem of global warming.
• Biodegradable plastics and bioplastics don't always readily decompose. Some need exposure to UV (ultraviolet) light or relatively high temperatures and, in some conditions, can still take many years to break down. Even then, they may leave behind micro-fragments or toxic residues.
• Bioplastics are made from plants such as corn and maize, so land that could be used to grow food for the world is being used to "grow plastic" instead. By 2014, almost a quarter of US grain production was expected to have been turned over to biofuels and bioplastics production; taking more agricultural land out of production could cause a significant rise in food prices that would hit poorest people hardest.
• Growing crops to make bioplastics comes with the usual environmental impacts of intensive agriculture, including greenhouse emissions from the petroleum needed to fuel farm machinery, and water pollution caused by runoff from land where fertilizers are used in industrial quantities. In some cases, these indirect impacts from "growing" bioplastics are greater than if we simply made plastics from petroleum in the first place.
• Some bioplastics, such as PLA, are made from genetically modified corn. Some environmentalists consider GM (genetically modified) crops to be inherently harmful to the environment, though others disagree.
• Bioplastics and biodegradable plastics cannot be easily recycled. To most people, PLA looks very similar to PET (polyethylene terephthalate) but, if the two are mixed up in a recycling bin, the whole collection becomes impossible to recycle. There are fears that increasing use of PLA may undermine existing efforts to recycle plastics.
• Many people think terms like "bioplastic," "biodegradable," and "compostable" mean exactly the same thing. But there's a huge difference between a "biodegradable" plastic (one that might take decades or centuries to break down) and a truly "compostable" material (something that turns almost entirely into benign waste after a matter of months in a composter), while "bioplastic," as we've already seen, can also mean different things. Confusing jargon hampers public understanding, which makes it harder for consumers to grasp the issues and make positive choices when they shop.

 

[s8film40]

Incorrect - because you refuse to actually learn the specifics of the matter at hand. Iced water is colder than the water dispensed from fountains. The fountain if setup optimally will dispense at around 40deg. Refridgerated water should be around 37 degrees.. and iced water will be closer to 32deg.

Your 'properly chilled' drink never even STARTS anywhere near the temp of the iced drink...

Second, the iced drink will be able to absorb far more heat before raising the overall temperature of the drink. So while you may feel your non-iced drink is 'cold enough' - it will warm significantly faster than the drink with ice in it.



For one... the drink is normally purchased refrigerated... which we've already covered is starts off COLDER. The packaging also reduces the outgassing of the carbonation. Notice most people CAP their soda bottle ?

And for beer... understand, it normally is targeted for 38deg dispensing and storage. Again... colder.

Everything you’re saying is all within a few degrees of each other. Adding ice to a drink doesn’t make it 32 degrees because then the whole thing would be ice. The concept of adding ice to a drink is to get it in that mid 30 range. Short of going out with a thermometer and measuring a sampling of drinks it’s really just you’re opinion versus mine. More importantly though I’m pretty confident I could easily find a beer warmer than a soda fountain or a soda fountain just as cold as a drink with ice and vice versa, there’s just so much variance out there. You’re really arguing over one or two degrees here and that all still constitutes a cold drink and ice isn’t necessary to have a cold drink.

 

[AEfx]

Everything you’re saying is all within a few degrees of each other. Adding ice to a drink doesn’t make it 32 degrees because then the whole thing would be ice. The concept of adding ice to a drink is to get it in that mid 30 range. Short of going out with a thermometer and measuring a sampling of drinks it’s really just you’re opinion versus mine. More importantly though I’m pretty confident I could easily find a beer warmer than a soda fountain or a soda fountain just as cold as a drink with ice and vice versa, there’s just so much variance out there. You’re really arguing over one or two degrees here and that all still constitutes a cold drink and ice isn’t necessary to have a cold drink.

Our entire fountain delivery system in the US is designed to be iced - from the concentration of the syrups used to the temperature it is kept at. They are intended to be served with ice.

Now, you may not like that, you may like it without, great, good for you - but you have been acting all high and mighty for pages and pages on this like 99.5% of people who get their drink standard with ice are somehow idiots and it is just ridiculous.

 

[s8film40]

Dude...seriously.

Our entire fountain delivery system in the US is designed to be iced - from the concentration of the syrups used to the temperature it is kept at. They are intended to be served with ice.

Now, you may not like that, you may like it without, great, good for you - but you have been acting all high and mighty for pages and pages on this like 99.5% of people who get their drink standard with ice are somehow idiots and it is just ridiculous.

No I'm just pointing out I don't see any logical reason why ice needs to be added to fountain drinks other than the "I need my drink to be one or two degrees cooler". Most soda fountains are often more watered down than a bottle soda so I really don't know what you mean by the syrup concentrations are designed for ice. Where talking about the environmental aspect of removing straws here, I'm just going back to the root cause of why we even need straws in the first place. So putting all that debate aside could it be possible to make the soda fountains those few degrees cooler and adjust the syrup concentrations (assuming that's even a real thing) and then perhaps eliminate the need for straws all together both plastic and paper?

 

[AEfx]

No I'm just pointing out I don't see any logical reason

You have been given them by multiple people multiple times. You just don't like the answers.

And since Disney isn't taking away ice, arguing your ridiculous opinion back and forth is a waste of time. I made a joke about someone being so silly, and you became the epitome of the joke. Congrats.

/wave

 

[Tony the Tigger]

No I'm just pointing out I don't see any logical reason why ice needs to be added to fountain drinks other than the "I need my drink to be one or two degrees cooler". Most soda fountains are often more watered down than a bottle soda so I really don't know what you mean by the syrup concentrations are designed for ice. Where talking about the environmental aspect of removing straws here, I'm just going back to the root cause of why we even need straws in the first place. So putting all that debate aside could it be possible to make the soda fountains those few degrees cooler and adjust the syrup concentrations (assuming that's even a real thing) and then perhaps eliminate the need for straws all together both plastic and paper?

Take away straws = panic and loss of “freedom” plus a war on Christmas.

Take away ice...

 

[Tony the Tigger]

No I'm just pointing out I don't see any logical reason why ice needs to be added to fountain drinks other than the "I need my drink to be one or two degrees cooler"

I don’t see why people need to drink sugar water all day in refillable mugs. So I don’t partake.

 

[AEfx]

I don’t see why people need to drink sugar water all day in refillable mugs. So I don’t partake.

Then why are you commenting?

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Then why are you commenting?

(Sigh) I’m attempting to show by example to the ice cube person that we don’t have to understand why other people do what they do. If you don’t like it, don’t do it.

 

[s8film40]

You have been given them by multiple people multiple times. You just don't like the answers.

And since Disney isn't taking away ice, arguing your ridiculous opinion back and forth is a waste of time. I made a joke about someone being so silly, and you became the epitome of the joke. Congrats.

/wave

I specifically said logical reasons. I've been told that it makes the drink fizzier, it makes it two degrees cooler and now that the syrup is somehow someway "specifically formulated for ice" whatever that means. So yeah a bunch of non tangible and relatively insignificant nonsense. But by all means go ahead and call me silly for thinking because a drink is in a cup instead of a bottle it somehow can't be consumed without ice, haha!

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I specifically said logical reasons. I've been told that it makes the drink fizzier, it makes it two degrees cooler and now that the syrup is somehow someway "specifically formulated for ice" whatever that means. So yeah a bunch of non tangible and relatively insignificant nonsense. But by all means go ahead and call me silly for thinking because a drink is in a cup instead of a bottle it somehow can't be consumed without ice, haha!

People have been conditioned to like ice in a cup. The end.