News Disney plans to accelerate Parks investment to $60 billion over 10 years

[MJL92]

We all want pure expansion and capacity increase. But realistically, things are always going to need to be replaced. Universe of Energy / Ellen's were fine attractions for an older vision of Epcot. But neither moves the needle in a modern theme park. Guardians is a stellar attraction. We can't act like thats a lateral move or replacement. It makes the attraction lineup better.

Maelstrom->Frozen, Splash -> Tiana, even Dinosaur -> Indy, Same ride, different content, those don't change anything except increase demand for an "exciting new IP" so I'll give you those.

But,
Hollywood Studios Backlot area -> Toy Story & Galaxy's Edge
Camp Minnie Mickey -> Pandora
Empty Space -> Rat
Empty Space -> Tron
GMR -> MMRR
UoE -> Guardians
and eventually Primeval Whirl -> Encanto

Most of that is capacity upgrade or a more efficient use of space. You can argue all you want that you preferred the previous attractions and that's fine. I won't tell you what to like (I loved Light's Motors Action, and I really miss the Who Wants to Be A Millionaire show, but <<< Toy Story Mania). But to act like they're not building and that everything is just a direct replacement is a misrepresentation of what's happening.

 

[bwr827]

Might have been what? TRON (and Ratatouille) as actually committed was always a “lift,” a clone

Maybe you’re skimming and missing details. I was replying to the comment about design considerations that might have resulted in a longer ride. As a “what might have been”, that’s too bad.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Maybe you’re skimming and missing details. I was replying to the comment about design considerations that might have resulted in a longer ride. As a “what might have been”, that’s too bad.

They are design considerations that were never on the table. It’s not at all a “what might have been” unless you consider anything and everything as a “what might have been.”

 

[Bocabear]

In Tomorrowland Shanghai Disneyland, the entire land was designed around Tron... though I would say that particular Tomorrowland, while very modern, is probably (to me anyway) the most lackluster as it more resembles a corporate cambus park than an actual amusement park. It is pretty and there are a few things that are actually good, but on the whole it feels a bit joyless... Tron was too short in Shanghai and sadly they didn't address anything in the transfer to the states... If they skipped the outdoor canopy flyover in the beginning and rather than have it outside, actually began the ride as a flyover the Game Grid and all interior and in the dark, it would have made the ride feel longer...It is the jarring transition from indoor to outdoor that breaks the ride in two parts and makes it feel shorter than it is....but it is short for sure.
Tron also does not match the aesthetic of Tomorrowland at the MK. It looks out of place....and not in a good way. There are no supporting structures, transitional points from the old tomorrowland to the world of Tron...The attraction needs it's setting... Some additional buildings, a dedicated TRON gift shop at the ride, not at Space Mountain... A Tron-ified Speedway and Tomorrowland Concourse area would help seat the ride into it's setting... adding more elements of the Tron Aesthetic would have gone a long way...glowing lights in the pavement...additional canopy treatment on other buildings... Tron inspired set pieces along the Speedway with new electric cars...It would have all gone a very long way to telling the attraction's story and making TRON a real part of the Magic Kingdom....rather than an oddly placed addition....

 

[MJL92]

Tron also does not match the aesthetic of Tomorrowland at the MK. It looks out of place....and not in a good way. There are no supporting structures, transitional points from the old tomorrowland to the world of Tron...The attraction needs it's setting... Some additional buildings, a dedicated TRON gift shop at the ride, not at Space Mountain... A Tron-ified Speedway and Tomorrowland Concourse area would help seat the ride into it's setting... adding more elements of the Tron Aesthetic would have gone a long way...glowing lights in the pavement...additional canopy treatment on other buildings... Tron inspired set pieces along the Speedway with new electric cars...It would have all gone a very long way to telling the attraction's story and making TRON a real part of the Magic Kingdom....rather than an oddly placed addition....

Definitely feels out of place in the current TL, but I'd argue that's because none of the rest of it feels like "tomorrowland". If you scrapped the whole land and started from scratch, the only thing you would keep in its current form is Tron. I would love to see that aesthetic extended to other parts of the land.

As for the length argument, short for what should be in a Disney park, yes absolutely. But launched coasters usually sit around 1:00. Tron is only slightly shorter than RnRC, and even VelociCoaster, which is considered by many to be the best coaster in the world (#2 for me!). Maverick at Cedar Point is another top launched and that's a long one at 1:20. The bigger issue is pacing. The launch and outdoor portion for Tron is great, then inside you don't get much in the form of standard coaster thrills, whereas the other launched coasters I listed all provide better variety and keep building throughout. The memorable part of Tron is over in about 10 seconds.

 

[UNCgolf]

Problem is, most of the projects they have built are either unimpressive (TRON, Ratatouille), budget-cut (Guardians, Communicore Hall), or in the most recent example in Frontierland, an egregious failure to understand basic tenets of attraction design.

I don't think you can realistically argue that Guardians was budget cut when it cost $450-500 million.

I have plenty of issues with the execution, but that's a separate argument.

 

[Bocabear]

Definitely feels out of place in the current TL, but I'd argue that's because none of the rest of it feels like "tomorrowland". If you scrapped the whole land and started from scratch, the only thing you would keep in its current form is Tron. I would love to see that aesthetic extended to other parts of the land.

As for the length argument, short for what should be in a Disney park, yes absolutely. But launched coasters usually sit around 1:00. Tron is only slightly shorter than RnRC, and even VelociCoaster, which is considered by many to be the best coaster in the world (#2 for me!). Maverick at Cedar Point is another top launched and that's a long one at 1:20. The bigger issue is pacing. The launch and outdoor portion for Tron is great, then inside you don't get much in the form of standard coaster thrills, whereas the other launched coasters I listed all provide better variety and keep building throughout. The memorable part of Tron is over in about 10 seconds.

Actually Tron is the one thing in Tomorrowland that is at odds with the rest, and Architecturally uninteresting. The only thing that makes it interesting is the outdoor canopy...remove that and it is a box. The original building designs of Tomorrowland have some architectural interest... Space Mountain is fantastic. The others are wonderful mid-centruy modernism... Sadly we won't all realize that until they tear them down or run them permanently... Like the Communicore buildings. The one building they kept, when opened up and revealed for what it is, is timeless and modern...as are the original Tomorrowland buildings...
The actual length of Tron is part of the problem, but the launch portion and canopy flyover splits the ride into two acts...making it feel extra short...again, if it were all indoor I think it would feel longer...they could also do some great effects digitizing you and injecting you into the Game Grid...and then extracting you at the end... and where is Flynn's Arcade??lol

 

[bwr827]

Actually Tron is the one thing in Tomorrowland that is at odds with the rest, and Architecturally uninteresting. The only thing that makes it interesting is the outdoor canopy...remove that and it is a box. The original building designs of Tomorrowland have some architectural interest... Space Mountain is fantastic. The others are wonderful mid-centruy modernism... Sadly we won't all realize that until they tear them down or run them permanently... Like the Communicore buildings. The one building they kept, when opened up and revealed for what it is, is timeless and modern...as are the original Tomorrowland buildings...
The actual length of Tron is part of the problem, but the launch portion and canopy flyover splits the ride into two acts...making it feel extra short...again, if it were all indoor I think it would feel longer...they could also do some great effects digitizing you and injecting you into the Game Grid...and then extracting you at the end... and where is Flynn's Arcade??lol

The Tron canopy looks so cool that I don’t even notice the box.

 

[bwr827]

Definitely feels out of place in the current TL, but I'd argue that's because none of the rest of it feels like "tomorrowland". If you scrapped the whole land and started from scratch, the only thing you would keep in its current form is Tron. I would love to see that aesthetic extended to other parts of the land.

As for the length argument, short for what should be in a Disney park, yes absolutely. But launched coasters usually sit around 1:00. Tron is only slightly shorter than RnRC, and even VelociCoaster, which is considered by many to be the best coaster in the world (#2 for me!). Maverick at Cedar Point is another top launched and that's a long one at 1:20. The bigger issue is pacing. The launch and outdoor portion for Tron is great, then inside you don't get much in the form of standard coaster thrills, whereas the other launched coasters I listed all provide better variety and keep building throughout. The memorable part of Tron is over in about 10 seconds.

Isn’t Velocicoaster 90 seconds, a full 50% longer than Tron?

Agree about the most memorable part of Tron. Might have been better to end with the canopy section.

 

[Bocabear]

The Tron canopy looks so cool that I don’t even notice the box.

That's what they were hoping for...because that is all it is... just a box with a canopy....

 

[MisterPenguin]

The Tron canopy looks so cool that I don’t even notice the box.

It's actually pretty hard to see the box. Between the TRON canopy, People Mover, trees behind Speedway, and being close-up to buildings in Circus, you have to go out of you way to see the box.

 

[DonniePeverley]

The title of the thread is 'DISNEY PLANS TO ACCELERATE INVESTMENT'



Then we learn it's over 15 years. That's not acceleration, sounds like a diesel truck, manufactured in the 70's going up a hill.




Most people see the headlines (like free loading locals with annual passes), others see the spin and total utter nonsense.

 

[bwr827]

That's what they were hoping for...because that is all it is... just a box with a canopy....

So the design worked? And it’s a pretty awesome canopy, especially at night.

 

[MJL92]

Isn’t Velocicoaster 90 seconds, a full 50% longer than Tron?

Depends on where you're timing from.

Launch to final brakes:
VelociCoaster ~1:08
Tron ~0:58

From leaving the station to final brakes:
VelociCoaster ~1:30
Tron ~1:24

One is a far superior coaster and experience all around. But I wouldn't say that the timed length of the rides is the reason why. Tron is still too short for a Disney coaster when they're not delivering the same thrill experience (RnRC too).

 

[flynnibus]

Isn’t Velocicoaster 90 seconds, a full 50% longer than Tron?

Agree about the most memorable part of Tron. Might have been better to end with the canopy section.

They are both coasters... better to compare with what is more constant. Length

Tron is 3,169' - Velicicoaster is 4700'

That's 48% longer track... and Velicoaster is more intense in just about every metric.

 

[Bocabear]

So the design worked? And it’s a pretty awesome canopy, especially at night.

It is an awesome canopy...for sure...

 

[BrianLo]

You are using some interesting math right there. A new Triton-class cruise ship is around $2.5 billion. They currently have 5 (or 6, depending on how you want to count the Treasure, or 7 if you want to include the Adventure) ships. Doubling even on the low end puts us at $12-14 billion accounting for inflation.

There were significant cost overruns, covid issues, and construction problems with the Wish which caused construction to well exceed the estimated $1.6B cost. The number is closer to $2B.

For perspective the Dream and Fantasy adjusting for inflation would have cost around $1.5B in 2024 dollars.

Do we have a good source on this? NCL's Leonardo class costs a little over 1 billion from their debt tables. The tonnage is also higher than Triton. Icon is pegged at 2 billion, but that's nearly double the tonnage.

It just seems a bit high to me when a lot of the cost is set by the ship builder and there is some industry standardization going on here.


PS they are spending 12 billion on DCL, so I guess we'll see exactly what that yields soon enough. If Monothingie is right, then that means just another three vessel class. If costs are a bit lower then 4-6. I really expect the next class to be announced soon-ish.

 

[DonniePeverley]

It is an awesome canopy...for sure...

If you think Tron is short, wait till you the Frozen coaster in Hong Kong - there is not even to describe how short that attraction is. Brutal.

 

[bwr827]

If you think Tron is short, wait till you the Frozen coaster in Hong Kong - there is not even to describe how short that attraction is. Brutal.

Just looked up a POV. Wow, you weren’t kidding! So short. Looks like a great attraction if only it were maybe 30 seconds longer.

 

[monothingie]

Do we have a good source on this? NCL's Leonardo class costs a little over 1 billion from their debt tables. The tonnage is also higher than Triton. Icon is pegged at 2 billion, but that's nearly double the tonnage.

It just seems a bit high to me when a lot of the cost is set by the ship builder and there is some industry standardization going on here.


PS they are spending 12 billion on DCL, so I guess we'll see exactly what that yields soon enough. If Monothingie is right, then that means just another three vessel class. If costs are a bit lower then 4-6. I really expect the next class to be announced soon-ish.

Forbes reported that financial statements at the time of construction valued the ship alone at $1.6B. The costs for Dream and Fantasy are extrapolated also from reported costs from the 2010s when built adjusted for inflation in 2024 dollars.

It was reported that there were significant construction hurdles and expenses caused by primarily by COVID and supply chain issues. I was erring on the side of caution assuming that these were 10-20% of the total cost. But it is possible that it could be higher.

There is a questionable source out there that claims the Wish cost Disney $2.4B but that would mean almost 65% cost overruns, which seems really crazy.