News Disney plans to accelerate Parks investment to $60 billion over 10 years

[Dan Deesnee]

It is not unreasonable to know of a multi billion dollar project 10 years in advance. You begin to hear of feasibility studies, conceptual engineering..... etc. But tou are not really sure until ground is broken. Just like WDW... we hear about plans and development activities, ground is broken, then the final product is disappointing

Ehh... It's obviously possible. But it's also an extremely convenient cop-out for not being more ready to counter it.

To me what you're basically saying is they new Universal was going to do...something. Sure, that's obvious. But do you really think Universal has any clue what Disney is going to be launching in their parks in 2035? Disney doesn't even know.

 

[BrianLo]

Ehh... It's obviously possible. But it's also an extremely convenient cop-out for not being more ready to counter it.

To me what you're basically saying is they new Universal was going to do...something. Sure, that's obvious. But do you really think Universal has any clue what Disney is going to be launching in their parks in 2035? Disney doesn't even know.

It's a bit different when essentially a new resort and land purchasing are involved. Plans were put into motion after Diagon Alley and we started to be privy to it too mid last decade. I'm sure Bob was inherently made aware. Likewise, the Universal Great Britain project is out to next decade and that's very public knowledge.

It's entirely reasonable to conclude meetings were occurring in the late 2010's in which they wondered if they needed to further ready themselves for 'Epic' and lamented Pandora was off to a raging success and they had ambitious DHS and Epcot plans underway. Not that those projects were enacted to counter, but that the parks were on a good course and Universal didn't matter in the grand scheme to their trajectory.

What I don't think was entirely intentioned was Chapek's gutting. An Animal Kingdom project should have been launching sooner. Or the acknowledgement that they could actually significantly grow their parks business and not just make sure it was fresh.

 

[Nubs70]

Ehh... It's obviously possible. But it's also an extremely convenient cop-out for not being more ready to counter it.

To me what you're basically saying is they new Universal was going to do...something. Sure, that's obvious. But do you really think Universal has any clue what Disney is going to be launching in their parks in 2035? Disney doesn't even know.

It is absolutely a cop out.

But when Bob believes he is invincible, he really does not care.

 

[Tha Realest]

You're placing a lot of faith in a certain poster who posted a park fans' dream list and it somehow has been treated as "insider info". You should take that list with not a grain of salt, but a salt lick.

And when Disney's CFO says their spending is going to be back-loaded toward the second half of the next decade, there's a reason for a statement like that.

Yep. Almost certain to be some sort of market correction between now and Year 5, which then gives Disney cover to say, “circumstances have changed” and back out of those promised builds which absolutely are going to happen

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It is not unreasonable to know of a multi billion dollar project 10 years in advance. You begin to hear of feasibility studies, conceptual engineering..... etc. But tou are not really sure until ground is broken. Just like WDW... we hear about plans and development activities, ground is broken, then the final product is disappointing

It’s how they handle construction now that is increasing the angst.

Who wants conventions with announcements for things that are 5 years away? Only the zeals…which provide a momentary boost in merch sales on Loungeflys when they go to the merch room two doors down at the Anaheim convention center…

The majority of moderate/casual fans get their info from web and social media in passing…and when they see “opening 2028…maybe…” for zootopia (or whatever) they think “wow…my seven year old who’d love that will be turning 12…and I’ll be in my 40’s…great”

It’s just bad management philosophy. It took 15 years of legacy good will to burn through for it to come to a head…now it’s bubbling up.

Look at “new fantasyland”…a direct “counter” to hogsmeade…pathetic.
It was so good they had to build ANOTHER counter and give the credit card to James Cameron and Joe Rohde…
…lucky that didn’t turn into the money pit. Very lucky.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yep. Almost certain to be some sort of market correction between now and Year 5, which then gives Disney cover to say, “circumstances have changed” and back out of those promised builds which absolutely are going to happen

Which is the only point of that timeline…other than trying to save Bob’s carcass in a really bad position he was in. We already seem to forget the last 18 months…didn’t take long

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It's a bit different when essentially a new resort and land purchasing are involved. Plans were put into motion after Diagon Alley and we started to be privy to it too mid last decade. I'm sure Bob was inherently made aware. Likewise, the Universal Great Britain project is out to next decade and that's very public knowledge.

It's entirely reasonable to conclude meetings were occurring in the late 2010's in which they wondered if they needed to further ready themselves for 'Epic' and lamented Pandora was off to a raging success and they had ambitious DHS and Epcot plans underway. Not that those projects were enacted to counter, but that the parks were on a good course and Universal didn't matter in the grand scheme to their trajectory.

What I don't think was entirely intentioned was Chapek's gutting. An Animal Kingdom project should have been launching sooner. Or the acknowledgement that they could actually significantly grow their parks business and not just make sure it was fresh.

I agree with every thing you say…

But it’s still a prestige hit to the mouse. I’m sorry…it’s just fair. To be in a 5 year SELF-IMPOSED development glut while universal is opening the biggest new property development in town since DAK is just not a good look. Or reassuring at all.

He’ll blame Slaphead…but he was there for a cup of coffee and was being steered by IGER’s board who weren’t exactly scrupulous. The buck still stops on Truman’s desk.

 

[ToTBellHop]

It's a bit different when essentially a new resort and land purchasing are involved. Plans were put into motion after Diagon Alley and we started to be privy to it too mid last decade. I'm sure Bob was inherently made aware. Likewise, the Universal Great Britain project is out to next decade and that's very public knowledge.

It's entirely reasonable to conclude meetings were occurring in the late 2010's in which they wondered if they needed to further ready themselves for 'Epic' and lamented Pandora was off to a raging success and they had ambitious DHS and Epcot plans underway. Not that those projects were enacted to counter, but that the parks were on a good course and Universal didn't matter in the grand scheme to their trajectory.

What I don't think was entirely intentioned was Chapek's gutting. An Animal Kingdom project should have been launching sooner. Or the acknowledgement that they could actually significantly grow their parks business and not just make sure it was fresh.

Chapek definitely exacerbated things but the upshot is that many of the cut projects were less ambitious than what Iger is now approving and we have a healthy entertainment budget for FY25. I doubt we’d be seeing any of this if Chapek were still in charge. So I think it’s a net positive even if the next couple years will feel a bit anemic. At least we will get some ride refurbishments.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Chapek definitely exacerbated things but the upshot is that many of the cut projects were less ambitious than what Iger is now approving and we have a healthy entertainment budget for FY25. I doubt we’d be seeing any of this if Chapek were still in charge. So I think it’s a net positive even if the next couple years will feel a bit anemic. At least we will get some ride refurbishments.

Refurbs and streetmosphere don’t make up for the capacity issues that they never address. And Iger and his human shield P&R henchman did that…

It was always gonna be this way. The philosophy is wrong.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Refurbs and streetmosphere don’t make up for the capacity issues that they never address. And Iger and his human shield P&R henchman did that…

It was always gonna be this way. The philosophy is wrong.

Actually, some of the entertainment will better utilize existing park spaces and pull guests out of ride queues. Of course, these are just deferred additions that should have been here years ago…like for the forgettable 50th?

But, 2025 should be better for park visitors than 2024 so that’s nice?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Actually, some of the entertainment will better utilize existing park spaces and pull guests out of ride queues. Of course, these are just deferred additions that should have been here years ago…like for the forgettable 50th?

But, 2025 should be better for park visitors than 2024 so that’s nice?

That is true

But they fell behind good operational practices 2000-2010. And it’s just been catchup ever since. Parks are still profitable…but they’re like a quarterback trying to comeback against prevent in the 4th quarter. The numbers look good…but you’re actually losing.

My theory - and i’m a whack job screwball - is that WDW has actually been LOSING money the last 5-10 years and it’s intensifying.

“What?!? Per guests spending!! Quarterlies! Offset by price increases!!”

Their tactics are terrible. They just had a long fuse on it because WDW is amazing. But these guys didn’t build it.

They have to work too hard for easy revenue and profits now. So they post profits but have lost potential easy cash by putting too much pressure on their customers and have put the future in a precarious position. There isn’t a runway from here to the moon to keep doing what they’re doing.

And they’re stuck. Caught between Wall Street…tech guru Robert Cook Iger…and an increasing word on the street from customers saying “yeah…what am I paying for?”

 

[Tha Realest]

Chapek definitely exacerbated things but the upshot is that many of the cut projects were less ambitious than what Iger is now approving and we have a healthy entertainment budget for FY25. I doubt we’d be seeing any of this if Chapek were still in charge. So I think it’s a net positive even if the next couple years will feel a bit anemic. At least we will get some ride refurbishments.

Yeah I think this is a good point. While the last few and current years have been lean, I’m glad that the recent regime that gave us

• the Riviera Resort,
• the Contemporary makeover,
• the Galactic Starcruiser,
• DCA Spidey,
• HarmoniUs,
• Avengers Paris,
• Poly DVC,
• Fort Wilderness DVC, and
• the wasteful husk of EPCOT

didn’t get to build anything more than they did.

 

[Nubs70]

That is true

But they fell behind good operational practices 2000-2010. And it’s just been catchup ever since. Parks are still profitable…but they’re like a quarterback trying to comeback against prevent in the 4th quarter. The numbers look good…but you’re actually losing.

My theory - and i’m a whack job screwball - is that WDW has actually been LOSING money the last 5-10 years and it’s intensifying.

“What?!? Per guests spending!! Quarterlies! Offset by price increases!!”

Their tactics are terrible. They just had a long fuse on it because WDW is amazing. But these guys didn’t build it.

They have to work too hard for easy revenue and profits now. So they post profits but have lost potential easy cash by putting too much pressure on their customers and have put the future in a precarious position. There isn’t a runway from here to the moon to keep doing what they’re doing.

And they’re stuck. Caught between Wall Street…tech guru Robert Cook Iger…and an increasing word on the street from customers saying “yeah…what am I paying for?”

Exactly....

DiS has a ROCE of about 4%, whereas their competition has a ROCE of around 11%

So for every dollar of capital expended:
DIS gets $1.04
Competition $1.11

 

[ToTBellHop]

Yeah I think this is a good point. While the last few and current years have been lean, I’m glad that the recent regime that gave us

• the Riviera Resort,
• the Contemporary makeover,
• the Galactic Starcruiser,
• DCA Spidey,
• HarmoniUs,
• Avengers Paris,
• Poly DVC,
• Fort Wilderness DVC, and
• the wasteful husk of EPCOT

didn’t get to build anything more than they did.

Cherry picking a bit? Ignoring Pandora, TSL, SWGE, MMRR, Rat, and GotG? All extremely popular.

 

[Touchdown]

Cherry picking a bit? Ignoring Pandora, TSL, SWGE, MMRR, Rat, and GotG? All extremely popular.

GotG has still not fully opened and is not being used to its best capacity due to the stupid VQ, still in effect 2 years after it opened, it’s going to surpass RotR for time an attraction has spent in VQ and it makes zero sense. The ride is popular, reliable, and has a great capacity. There is no excuse for why it’s still on VQ other then to goose ILL sales.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Cherry picking a bit? Ignoring Pandora, TSL, SWGE, MMRR, Rat, and GotG? All extremely popular.

So going like…50/50?

That’s the standard

Some of those things are very good…some are frankly not. And haven’t withstood the Disney test…which is time.

And they didn’t increase capacity to handle the problems…so…what’s really better?

 

[Tha Realest]

Cherry picking a bit? Ignoring Pandora, TSL, SWGE, MMRR, Rat, and GotG? All extremely popular.

Rhode’s been gone (Pandora), TSL and SWGE underwhelming for what it cost ($$ and space), Rat’s a copy, MMRR is *fine* and GotG is nice.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Rhode’s been gone (Pandora), TSL and SWGE underwhelming for what it cost ($$ and space), Rat’s a copy, MMRR is *fine* and GotG is nice.

Pandora is the best…the others are mostly solid. And would be very impressive if they were adds…which an astonishing only ONE is…

And the one on that list often lauded will age the worst and is already falling apart. And just blah when you get down to it.

 

[erasure fan1]

So going like…50/50?

That’s the standard

Some of those things are very good…some are frankly not. And haven’t withstood the Disney test…which is time.

And they didn’t increase capacity to handle the problems…so…what’s really better?

Right on. If all of that was built as new, and didn't replace something directly or indirectly. He would have a leg to stand on. Unfortunately park expansion hasn't been anywhere near what it should for demand. I'm not really sure how that can be disputed.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

. I'm not really sure how that can be disputed.

usually its because they have a trip to port orleans coming up…and everything not Rainbows takes them out of their “happy planning place”