News Disney plans to accelerate Parks investment to $60 billion over 10 years

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Improvement is coming.

…over/under 2032?

 

[erasure fan1]

…over/under 2032?

OVER!!!!

 

[MrPromey]

Disney is not gonna rapidly loose market share once Epic opens as some have claimed on here.

They are an entrenched well know brand with a huge following despite their blunders.

I think a lot of us forget that Universal being this competitive is still a relatively new phenomenon.

Maybe in the last decade or so since Potter opened has there been talk of a response to that land. Galaxy’s Edge was the answer but it wasn’t as successful imo.

Comcast has decided to go all in on their parks division lately so now here we are with the current discussions.

New Fantasy Land was the original response to Potter.

Was it such a poor response that people have already forgotten about the potter-swatter?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

New Fantasy Land was the original response to Potter.

Remember how well that worked?

I still have the ringing from the loud thud in my ears…does that count?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Maybe in the last decade or so since Potter opened has there been talk of a response to that land. Galaxy’s Edge was the answer but it wasn’t as successful imo.

You serious, Clark?

 

[doctornick]

I love Animal Kingdom but even these Tropical Americas won’t be enough. It needs to be a park that’s open until 9pm.

Tropical Americas (assuming Encanto is a high quality ride) and a Lion King ride and a new night show on the water would be enough to warrant the extended hours I’d say. Ideally you’d also still get some other additional stuff like maybe a walkthrough in Pandora or something like that or a daytime show on the water but I’m not expecting anything

 

[MrPromey]

Underbuilt? For opening day, the park will have a solid lineup.

Yeah, I'm thinking about which Disney parks opened in Central Florida with more attractions... like I'm also thinking about which Disney parks in central Florida currently have more attractions...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Tropical Americas (assuming Encanto is a high quality ride) and a Lion King ride and a new night show on the water would be enough to warrant the extended hours I’d say. Ideally you’d also still get some other additional stuff like maybe a walkthrough in Pandora or something like that or a daytime show on the water but I’m not expecting anything

That’s only net plus two on attractions…and a nighttime thing that actually draws at DAK is like a unicorn we seem to chase with a net.

Maybe?

I always hope they get serious and put Dak on the “full day for half…multi day for half” list…but it’s been around a longtime and hasn’t gotten close yet

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yeah, I'm thinking about which Disney parks opened in Central Florida with more attractions... like I'm thinking about which Disney parks in central Florida currently have more attractions...

Magic kingdom…maybe…it was soft in 1971…Epcot definitely…IOA

That’s it

 

[MrPromey]

Magic kingdom…maybe…it was soft in 1971…Epcot definitely…IOA

That’s it

You're crediting Disney with IOA?

That's mighty generous of you for a Friday, Sir!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You're crediting Disney with IOA?

That's might generous of you for a Friday, Sir!

I’m working…so I’m only 3 drinks in so far

I meant parks in all of Orlando

Got crossed up there

Calumet today

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And when Disney's CFO says their spending is going to be back-loaded toward the second half of the next decade, there's a reason for a statement like that.

Zero intention of ever lifting a finger?

 

[MrPromey]

Express pass leads to brain scramble…that’s the down side. Too many “screens and shakers”

So I agree there.

But Disney can’t…or won’t…get people through the lines…
Is that better and should we reward them buy dumping more days at astronomical prices?
Because that’s what happens in 10 days

Yeah, I'm wondering how someone with Universal Express level of access to the Disney 4 would feel about how complete all four are, too.

The biggest thing Disney has added to Orlando parks since Iger made it to the top has been wait times. People spend more time waiting in line for things than doing anything else everything else combined in the parks, typically.* Lines for attractions, lines for snacks, lines for merchandise checkout**... lines for popcorn buckets and magnets...

Since they've figured out how to shake free money from that problem, it's easy to see why they're not interested in fixing it unless/until it begins to bring attendance down to a level that they aren't making up for financially with LL and ILL... but of course, if attendance drops that low, so does the wait times and the perceived value of LL an ILL so what do they do?

At this point, though, I imagine that LL and ILL profits are now baked in the same way the Florida Lottery is... When that launched, it was supposed to add to the state's public school budgets and everyone in Florida knows how that ended up working out.

*talk to anyone who isn't a "super fan" and doesn't go commando or with a spreadsheet and ask them how many attractions they got done in a day.

**who here remembers checkout in the big park shops prior to them needing to install wait ques in all of them?

 

[MrPromey]

I think the ultimate barometer is can one engage in more than a days worth of activities without a height restriction? Magic Kingdom and Epcot you can. Nothing else you remotely can. The only other operator I can identify is Efteling.

And Universal is incredibly bad for it. A short three year old can experience two spinners and a frog choir at IOA. An averaged height 3/4 year old or a short 5 year old is capped to 5 B/C tickets at IOA and Kong. That’s Universal’s real short coming. Even DAK can entertain a family with a young child longer plus those attractions are of incredibly higher quality.

Which is fine in some ways. As ‘ride’ parks, Universal holds up well or ok. Epic looks like the only park that’s balanced in their portfolio.

Universal looks to be working on this.

The Villancon attraction that Millennials without kids and Gen Yers seem to hate so much but that families and particularly kids seem to have a blast with and the reworked area for Dreamworks opening soon show this... but the Dreamworks area looks set to make the same mistake most non-Disney parks make which is having a designated kid's land full of stuff that once you age out of, nobody's going to really want to go back to.

I expect when it opens, my 12 year old will set foot in it exactly once to see what it is and never want to go back.

The problem with this is you effectively have a dead zone for anyone not in that age group where as the majority of the rest of the park is still a non-starter for that age group.

IOA still needs a lot of work for family friendly attractions. That they have an attraction in Seuss' landing with the height requirement it has is bonkers... I get why that one needs it and I know the long and complicated history behind even getting that thing open but still.

At least Seuss' Landing is mostly appropriate for all ages and not basically mediocre for anyone who isn't or isn't with, a very young child, though.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I think what people saw as a "deprioritizing" was always part of the plan, even before COVID. Their comments made in 2018 and 2019, in the lead up to SWGE opening, seemed to suggest that they realized a need to revalue the product and control crowds. It wasn't in their best interest to let *everyone* through the gate at a significantly lower value than they thought they could achieve. They raised prices, muddled with AP systems and introduced ticketing tiers in order to maximize the yield on their investments.

With that in mind, it absolutely made sense to pause any investment until you knew if the audience would accept the higher valuation in the product or not. If SWGE turned out to be a failure, and revenues started to decrease, it would have completely changed how much they would be willing to invest in the parks for decades to come.

Now that the audience HAS accepted the higher valuation and paid more for SWGE, they can plan out future expansions with bigger budgets to ensure the high ticket valuation remains.

I went back to compare the price of Pandora to Galaxy’s Edge, and it looks like Galaxy’s Edge was about twice as expensive (and that cost was doubled because Disneyland got one as well.) So I could see this. Rise alone cost about as much as Pandora!

As has been noted, Genie+ and tiered tickets seem like they may have some upside in that they create a motivation for those bigger expenditures.

 

[Nubs70]

I believe firmly that Bob Iger is lying about knowing Universal's plans for Epic Universe for 10 years. The reason he's saying this is a money and face saving tactic. By saying that you've known the plans for 10 years, you can then claim that everything you've done in the past 10 years has already been a response to Epic Universe.

I do however think that Disney is in panic mode right now. Theire standing as the number one family theme Park destination has been faltering the past few years, if not longer. I do think that Disney will open a fifth gate at some point in the next two decades, but I don't think that's anytime soon.

However I fully expect at d23 major expansions will be announced at all four parks. Epcot will get a new country. Possibly a new ride as well in one of the existing countries or in the new country. Hollywood Studios will get either several large expansions to existing lands or several expansions plus one large new expansion with a new IP. We already know what's coming to animal kingdom. I think everything coming to MK has been spoiled already but I believe they're going to go bigger with everything. I also wouldn't be shocked if MK gets something new for Fantasyland and likely a nighttime parade.

It is not unreasonable to know of a multi billion dollar project 10 years in advance. You begin to hear of feasibility studies, conceptual engineering..... etc. But tou are not really sure until ground is broken. Just like WDW... we hear about plans and development activities, ground is broken, then the final product is disappointing

 

[Dan Deesnee]

It is not unreasonable to know of a multi billion dollar project 10 years in advance. You begin to hear of feasibility studies, conceptual engineering..... etc. But tou are not really sure until ground is broken. Just like WDW... we hear about plans and development activities, ground is broken, then the final product is disappointing

Ehh... It's obviously possible. But it's also an extremely convenient cop-out for not being more ready to counter it.

To me what you're basically saying is they new Universal was going to do...something. Sure, that's obvious. But do you really think Universal has any clue what Disney is going to be launching in their parks in 2035? Disney doesn't even know.

 

[BrianLo]

Ehh... It's obviously possible. But it's also an extremely convenient cop-out for not being more ready to counter it.

To me what you're basically saying is they new Universal was going to do...something. Sure, that's obvious. But do you really think Universal has any clue what Disney is going to be launching in their parks in 2035? Disney doesn't even know.

It's a bit different when essentially a new resort and land purchasing are involved. Plans were put into motion after Diagon Alley and we started to be privy to it too mid last decade. I'm sure Bob was inherently made aware. Likewise, the Universal Great Britain project is out to next decade and that's very public knowledge.

It's entirely reasonable to conclude meetings were occurring in the late 2010's in which they wondered if they needed to further ready themselves for 'Epic' and lamented Pandora was off to a raging success and they had ambitious DHS and Epcot plans underway. Not that those projects were enacted to counter, but that the parks were on a good course and Universal didn't matter in the grand scheme to their trajectory.

What I don't think was entirely intentioned was Chapek's gutting. An Animal Kingdom project should have been launching sooner. Or the acknowledgement that they could actually significantly grow their parks business and not just make sure it was fresh.

 

[Nubs70]

Ehh... It's obviously possible. But it's also an extremely convenient cop-out for not being more ready to counter it.

To me what you're basically saying is they new Universal was going to do...something. Sure, that's obvious. But do you really think Universal has any clue what Disney is going to be launching in their parks in 2035? Disney doesn't even know.

It is absolutely a cop out.

But when Bob believes he is invincible, he really does not care.

 

[Tha Realest]

You're placing a lot of faith in a certain poster who posted a park fans' dream list and it somehow has been treated as "insider info". You should take that list with not a grain of salt, but a salt lick.

And when Disney's CFO says their spending is going to be back-loaded toward the second half of the next decade, there's a reason for a statement like that.

Yep. Almost certain to be some sort of market correction between now and Year 5, which then gives Disney cover to say, “circumstances have changed” and back out of those promised builds which absolutely are going to happen