News Disney plans to accelerate Parks investment to $60 billion over 10 years

[Andrew25]

Sure, but unless they speed up, you aren't talking 1.5 years, you are talking 3-5 years. And I'm just not convinced they care enough to add a bunch of other things to make up for even less to do. As someone said before we saw the permits, there's a chance they are assuming DAK is going to be cut from most people's budgets for the next few years due to Epic. It could be they are accepting that and are just going to build so that when the novelty of Epic wears off a bit, DAK can swoop in.

Like I mentioned early, when properly motivated, Disney can build at lightning speeds. People often forget that SWGE only took 3 years to build, and that included massive infrastructure work throughout the resort and redo of pre-existing areas.

DAK is the park people are cutting, it's a ghost town by 6PM, so a construction timeline for a Late 2026/Early 2027 project is definitely doable. Remember, latest WDI art showed heavy reuse of existing buildings, so they can open the project quite easily in phases.

2025 is a loss for WDW, but 2026 they can push heavily. Mind you, Universal isn't stopping after Epic, so WDW has even more pressure to fight off in the next few years.

We are entering another round of theme park wars for 2025-2030.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Yes, but as the most experienced users of fastpass who paid far less to get them each time they tap in, those guests were decidedly less "desirable". Now on weekends or holidays they are far more likely to pay for upsells than before. And on lower crowd days the company just wants bodies in the park to sell Mickey Bars and pretzels.

I bed to differ on the upsells portion of your statement. I found that as an AP holder I was much more relaxed about doing attractions and getting everything in on one trip as I knew I'd be back. I can tell you I would be LESS likely to purchase upsells and would probably just try to avoid going at more crowded times. As an AP holder, the timing of my trips was dictated far less by crowds and more by other events that happened to be going on such as friends getting together, concerts going on in the area, etc. Marie

 

[UNCgolf]

They'd need to develop the area between the existing park and Rafiki's (or develop it as part of replacing Rafiki's) before they built anything out where Rafiki's is. They can't get guests to/from there efficiently if there's not developed land between.

That would be an even larger project, so I doubt that's happening right now.

 

[MR.Dis]

I bed to differ on the upsells portion of your statement. I found that as an AP holder I was much more relaxed about doing attractions and getting everything in on one trip as I knew I'd be back. I can tell you I would be LESS likely to purchase upsells and would probably just try to avoid going at more crowded times. As an AP holder, the timing of my trips was dictated far less by crowds and more by other events that happened to be going on such as friends getting together, concerts going on in the area, etc. Marie

Totally agree. My wife are AP holders and go 3 times a year. We feel no need to buy any upsells as there is always tomorrow.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yes, but as the most experienced users of fastpass who paid far less to get them each time they tap in, those guests were decidedly less "desirable". Now on weekends or holidays they are far more likely to pay for upsells than before. And on lower crowd days the company just wants bodies in the park to sell Mickey Bars and pretzels.

It’s not genius…it’s just trying to increase revenue with less people

But it’s very flawed. They didn’t do what they had to do before the monetization

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They'd need to develop the area between the existing park and Rafiki's (or develop it as part of replacing Rafiki's) before they built anything out where Rafiki's is. They can't get guests to/from there efficiently if there's not developed land between.

That would be an even larger project, so I doubt that's happening right now.

That’s all animal service area

The more likely route would be in between Kali and the bird show…maybe?

 

[BrianLo]

Logic would have the South America land built first and have Encanto open while closing Dinosaur but I imagine they will want the whole area completed at the same time

I strongly argue the opposite. I don’t know why suddenly everyone wants phased builds. Logic would be getting the thing done the fastest, which would be the Indy flip.

Either DAK is struggling to attract crowds, like everyone says and they urgently need something to market, or it’s overstuffed and they can’t afford to take offline a non-draw attraction. I don’t believe it’s the latter, the park has been through worse a decade ago. We have all of Pandora and an open Lion King, minus a free chiropractic adjustment comparatively.

As I’ve said, there’s also a night time show that could occur on the fastest timetable if they want a draw.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I strongly argue the opposite. I don’t know why suddenly everyone wants phased builds. Logic would be getting the thing done the fastest, which would be the Indy flip.

Either DAK is struggling to attract crowds, like everyone says and they urgently need something to market, or it’s overstuffed and they can’t afford to take offline a non-draw attraction. I don’t believe it’s the latter, the park has been through worse a decade ago. We have all of Pandora and an open Lion King, minus a free chiropractic adjustment comparatively.

As I’ve said, there’s also a night time show that could occur on the fastest timetable if they want a draw.

If they’re serious…and there’s zero way to know because of all the posturing going on…they need multiple projects going in 3 of 4 parks asap.

The smartest way to accomplish that is to do one quick rehab/skin while simultaneously working on an expansion. That gives you two new things online in short order (for disney)

Here’s why me - skeptic numero uno - is starting to consider this:

Disney is good with data…they use it to predict the future. They may have data on Epic and knowledge of Comcast’s next phase of development that takes a huge bite out of them and their collection of aging parks and bad timeshares…

Nobody spends money willingly…knowing that, what’s the deal?

 

[Andrew25]

While Universal has been challenging WDW in the resort space, there's other parties in the area seriously competing with WDW. With no real "advantage" to staying on property anymore outside free transportation, there are a lot of really good hotels outside the bubble that have recently stepped up their game in value. All of the Hyatts/Marriots/Gaylord, etc. have gone through some massive improvements recently. Pair that with newer resorts like the Evermore and the upcoming Nick hotel... WDW has to do something to convince folks to stay with them longer and avoid a side trip to UOR (or entirely skip them).

 

[pdude81]

I bed to differ on the upsells portion of your statement. I found that as an AP holder I was much more relaxed about doing attractions and getting everything in on one trip as I knew I'd be back. I can tell you I would be LESS likely to purchase upsells and would probably just try to avoid going at more crowded times. As an AP holder, the timing of my trips was dictated far less by crowds and more by other events that happened to be going on such as friends getting together, concerts going on in the area, etc. Marie

Totally agree. My wife are AP holders and go 3 times a year. We feel no need to buy any upsells as there is always tomorrow.

Good for you both. Now I will hold firm on the idea that there are far more purchases of G+ and ILL from AP's than before. Certainly there are people like yourselves who are not really worried about particular rides and will just take what they can get. And Disney probably assumed that this would be the norm since AP's purchasing MaxPass was not common at all in DL, and given the low cost of G+ at launch. But either way an AP now feeds the beast. They either enter the parks and have to wait in line, leaving the LL open for other users, or they pay up and are now good for an extra 25 bucks per day just to reduce the frustration.

I will say that now that they started individual money to go on ROTR each time, my attendance on that ride has dropped way down. It certainly is about what it's worth to you. And while I really enjoy the ride, it's just not worth an extra $20 minimum to me each trip.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

While Universal has been challenging WDW in the resort space, there's other parties in the area seriously competing with WDW. With no real "advantage" to staying on property anymore outside free transportation, there are a lot of really good hotels outside the bubble that have recently stepped up their game in value. All of the Hyatts/Marriots/Gaylord, etc. have gone through some massive improvements recently. Pair that with newer resorts like the Evermore and the upcoming Nick hotel... WDW has to do something to convince folks to stay with them longer and avoid a side trip to UOR (or entirely skip them).

…excellent point

 

[pdude81]

It’s not genius…it’s just trying to increase revenue with less people

But it’s very flawed. They didn’t do what they had to do before the monetization

Genius, no. I'd say more happy accident when trying to fix the structural idiocy of FP+. They had no idea how many people would pay for G+ during revenge travel time, especially at the introductory price. But at least now they have that monetization in hand to use when pitching new attractions, as each ride either allows for a new ILL option or selling another thousand G+ passes per day.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Genius, no. I'd say more happy accident when trying to fix the structural idiocy of FP+. They had no idea how many people would pay for G+ during revenge travel time, especially at the introductory price. But at least now they have that monetization in hand to use when pitching new attractions, as each ride either allows for a new ILL option or selling another thousand G+ passes per day.

And yet…both attendance and revenues are shrinking by their own admission

 

[Andrew25]

…excellent point

Same can be said about the WDW water parks. Volcano Bay definitely took a chunk of water park attendance, but a lot of the resorts expanded their pools to include water slides, play areas, lazy rivers, etc. So it's far easier/cheaper to stay at a resort that offers one than deal with buying tickets, expensive park food, etc.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Same can be said about the WDW water parks. Volcano Bay definitely took a chunk of water park attendance, but a lot of the resorts expanded their pools to include water slides, play areas, lazy rivers, etc. So it's far easier/cheaper to stay at a resort that offers one than deal with buying tickets, expensive park food, etc.

Correct

Ironically hotels have embraced the “resort concept” with grottos/slide installation after Disney rejected pool designs for bland to save on minor staffing and what they perceive as “losses” at parks and springs

Saving Pennies to lose pounds

 

[pdude81]

And yet…both attendance and revenues are shrinking by their own admission

Yep, and poof. Permits filed. Finally time to build some things

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Totally agree. My wife are AP holders and go 3 times a year. We feel no need to buy any upsells as there is always tomorrow.

This describes us also, we have APs at DL and the one and only time we purchased G+ was our first trip after it debuted, we tried it, didn’t like it, and have never bought it again… at DL.

We have used it a few times at WDW though, we only visit FL once every year or two so our time is more valuable there and if it’ll save us a couple hours we find it worth the money.

We find Genie has no value to us as AP holders, if we don’t get on something we’ll just do it next time.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yep, and poof. Permits filed. Finally time to build some things

People have been looking at the genie, LL fees as “genius”

But take a step back from our annoyances and see them for what they are: covering for the losses they’re creating

The Dutch door

 

[Bocabear]

Correct

Ironically hotels have embraced the “resort concept” with grottos/slide installation after Disney rejected pool designs for bland to save on minor staffing and what they perceive as “losses” at parks and springs

Saving Pennies to lose pounds

That has always surprised me...Seems like when they built WDW there were some interesting pools....especially the Poly...then the pools got more and more generic over the years....while most have water slides, the design for them is much blander and less interesting... I guess they were worried about impacting their own water parks...but none of the Disney water parks live up to the spectacular Volcano Bay. Truly one of the most beautiful water parks in the world....

 

[Disstevefan1]

I hope when massive construction starts all the naysayers will admit they were wrong.

I will the first to admit I was wrong if they do something. I have no faith they will do anything.
And I love the descriptive "massive". If they do anything, it wont be massive.