News Disney plans to accelerate Parks investment to $60 billion over 10 years

[Disney Analyst]

To provide some historical insight, this is incredibly implausible. This is not a poo poo on Epic post, it looks great. It will drive major attendance to Universal.

Granted we only have one past Universal data point, but new gates always lead to lowered attendance for at least several years across the other gates in the portfolio. Universal Orlando Resorts total guest count will increase, but there will be moderate attendance declines at IOA and USF in compensation. Epic likely will be the third place attendance driver. It will take 5-10 years for IOA and USF attendance to fully recover (thereby the total resort will move towards a 50% attendance bump in totality in 5-10 years), but maybe only a 25% attendance bump upon opening of Epic.

The biggest comparator I think people would find acceptable is Disney Sea. You can see the clear resort wide bump in attendance, but it wasn’t really until 2013 that Tokyo Disneyland attendance fully reached its former peak.

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This is a good thing by the way and the barometer of success for Epic. If Epic has MK adjacent levels of attendance the place is going to be an absolute nightmare. It isn’t remotely built for that. It’s built to handle 7-9 million initially.

I am also very curious how EU will be perceived in peak guest periods, aka Summer. Summer in Florida is wet, and stormy. Right now when outdoor conditions deteriorate, EU will become just like IOA, with only 4 rides able to remain open.

4.

I love IOA, but it was horrible in the summers of 2013 and 2014 when I had my AP, and the park would basically shut down due to rain and or lightning.

 

[Jrb1979]

I am also very curious how EU will be perceived in peak guest periods, aka Summer. Summer in Florida is wet, and stormy. Right now when outdoor conditions deteriorate, EU will become just like IOA, with only 4 rides able to remain open.

4.

I love IOA, but it was horrible in the summers of 2013 and 2014 when I had my AP, and the park would basically shut down due to rain and or lightning.

I hear this all the time. My answer is how do parks like SeaWorld and Busch Gardens manage? They seem to do just fine.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I hear this all the time. My answer is how do parks like SeaWorld and Busch Gardens manage? They seem to do just fine.

SeaWorld and Busch aren't going to have, and never will have the same weight or scrutiny placed upon them as the premiere, brand new theme park, first in decades, for Orlando, built by one of the premiere theme park companies.

Not to be blunt but, no one cares about them in any big way.

 

[rd805]

I am also very curious how EU will be perceived in peak guest periods, aka Summer. Summer in Florida is wet, and stormy. Right now when outdoor conditions deteriorate, EU will become just like IOA, with only 4 rides able to remain open.

4.

I love IOA, but it was horrible in the summers of 2013 and 2014 when I had my AP, and the park would basically shut down due to rain and or lightning.

4 yes: Carousel, MK, Ministry of Magic, Horror ride / Frankenstein - with the possibility that Yoshi, DK still operating (Honestly not certain if some/majority of it may be inside)? And the 2 big stage shows would run.

This is not going to be a finished park day 1 -- more will be added in time and they have the space for it already. I would image within 5 years of opening, a few more additions would be made whether it's Luigi's Mansion, another Dark World ride, as well as another HP ride.

 

[Disney Analyst]

4 yes: Carousel, MK, Ministry of Magic, Horror ride / Frankenstein - with the possibility that Yoshi, DK still operating (Honestly not certain if some/majority of it may be inside)? And the 2 big stage shows would run.

This is not going to be a finished park day 1 -- more will be added in time and they have the space for it already. I would image within 5 years of opening, a few more additions would be made whether it's Luigi's Mansion, another Dark World ride, as well as another HP ride.

I have to assume Yoshi and DK will close for lightning, due to their outdoor portions, although they may be able to remain open if it's just light rain... unsure about Florida heavy rain.

 

[Jrb1979]

I have to assume Yoshi and DK will close for lightning, due to their outdoor portions, although they may be able to remain open if it's just light rain... unsure about Florida heavy rain.

You want can fix all that. Build a dome over the whole park.

 

[Disney Analyst]

You want can fix all that. Build a dome over the whole park.

Hey, outdoor attractions are a-okay, it just needs a better balance. Me personally, I would have it better balanced from day one, and not wait for future expansions to do so.

Build for the climate, when all eyes are on you.

 

[BrianLo]

I am also very curious how EU will be perceived in peak guest periods, aka Summer. Summer in Florida is wet, and stormy. Right now when outdoor conditions deteriorate, EU will become just like IOA, with only 4 rides able to remain open.

4.

I love IOA, but it was horrible in the summers of 2013 and 2014 when I had my AP, and the park would basically shut down due to rain and or lightning.

Probably another good reason there is pressure to look forward to Luigi’s Mansion and the Great Hall dining experience.

The park should be comfortable with 8/9 million visitors in 2026. It likely wouldn’t be with 10+ in 2030.

 

[Lilofan]

SeaWorld and Busch aren't going to have, and never will have the same weight or scrutiny placed upon them as the premiere, brand new theme park, first in decades, for Orlando, built by one of the premiere theme park companies.

Not to be blunt but, no one cares about them in any big way.

Sea World and Busch Gardens is a day trip if that and or even an afterthought.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Sea World and Busch Gardens is a day trip if that and or even an afterthought.

It’s like comparing McDonald’s to Bull & Bear.

Different quality. Different standards.

 

[flynnibus]

It’s like comparing McDonald’s to Bull & Bear.

Different quality. Different standards.

Or simply different paces...

Not everyone vacations for a week in a theme park.

Many do things like... goto KSC on a day, then goto the beach for day or two, then goto Busch Gardens for a day, etc.

Something being a day trip isn't a Scarlett letter... it's only for people that only want everything to be the same as something else.

You don't say KSC is trash because you don't spend 3 days there. Yet... many will continue to judge that way because they were conditioned to visit Disney that way.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I don’t think there are enough lifeguards available. Meanwhile, Universal has 2+ hr waits for Hagrid and Velocicoaster today and will close at 7 pm. They will struggle to staff their “weeklong vacation resort.”

Long waits for the two newest attractions don't reflect the whole story.

Last time I was at Universal, wait times became non-existent in the last hour or two before closing.

Universal has a different attendance pattern. They're not busy from open to close like Disney.

EU will help them grow their attendance, but will it hurt Disney? We heard that would be the case when Harry Potter opened for example. Disney continues to be the main draw.

 

[Lilofan]

Or simply different paces...

Not everyone vacations for a week in a theme park.

Many do things like... goto KSC on a day, then goto the beach for day or two, then goto Busch Gardens for a day, etc.

Something being a day trip isn't a Scarlett letter... it's only for people that only want everything to be the same as something else.

You don't say KSC is trash because you don't spend 3 days there. Yet... many will continue to judge that way because they were conditioned to visit Disney that way.

BG is a dump

 

[Jrb1979]

Long waits for the two newest attractions don't reflect the whole story.

Last time I was at Universal, wait times became non-existent in the last hour or two before closing.

Universal has a different attendance pattern. They're not busy from open to close like Disney.

EU will help them grow their attendance, but will it hurt Disney? We heard that would be the case when Harry Potter opened for example. Disney continues to be the main draw.

I agree. As I said earlier they are different type of guests for each park. Yes there is some crossover but not that much. Disney fans came to see Harry Potter. Aren't into the other IP or coasters.

 

[Jrb1979]

BG is a dump

Not at all. They have some the best coasters and their animals are as good as AK

 

[Disney Analyst]

Or simply different paces...

Not everyone vacations for a week in a theme park.

Many do things like... goto KSC on a day, then goto the beach for day or two, then goto Busch Gardens for a day, etc.

Something being a day trip isn't a Scarlett letter... it's only for people that only want everything to be the same as something else.

You don't say KSC is trash because you don't spend 3 days there. Yet... many will continue to judge that way because they were conditioned to visit Disney that way.

I’m certainly not implying anything you mentioned.

I am just saying that SeaWorld or Busch Gardens have different expectations, and the standards that will be expected of EU are not the same as those parks.

They are different.

 

[Andrew25]

I am also very curious how EU will be perceived in peak guest periods, aka Summer. Summer in Florida is wet, and stormy. Right now when outdoor conditions deteriorate, EU will become just like IOA, with only 4 rides able to remain open.

4.

I love IOA, but it was horrible in the summers of 2013 and 2014 when I had my AP, and the park would basically shut down due to rain and or lightning.

I partially agree, but I think Epic will perceived highly with 3/4 of its E-ticket attractions indoors.

Long waits for the two newest attractions don't reflect the whole story.

Last time I was at Universal, wait times became non-existent in the last hour or two before closing.

Universal has a different attendance pattern. They're not busy from open to close like Disney.

EU will help them grow their attendance, but will it hurt Disney? We heard that would be the case when Harry Potter opened for example. Disney continues to be the main draw.

Universal has an operations problem that still lingers from their pre-Potter days. Universal isn't busy open to close because they haven't conditioned guests to stay late with a proper nighttime show. Everybody knows that at 8 or 9PM, there will be a firework show at the end of Main Street or World Showcase lagoon. Universal just doesn't seem to push that... which is an odd business choice. When they had Cinematic Celebration running, they rarely advertised it (didn't do a marketing push until week of) and showtimes were all over the place, randomly not showing on weekends, et.. Poor TMs couldn't even tell you what time the show was.


I will continue to say this until something changes, but Universal has matched (sometimes surpassed) Disney in quality of their attractions and events... but they will also be held back by their poor in-park management and operations.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

After the new wears off, I think EU will steal more attendance from US than Disney.

While I agree with this I think it’ll secure a second day for Uni that wasn’t guaranteed with a lot of people before.

We go back and forth between spending one or 2 days at Uni, the Hogwarts express already gets us to buy parkhoppers so we “can” do both parks in one day, 2 days is more relaxing but we still struggle to fill 2 full days at Uni, I think once Epic opens buying 2 day parkhoppers becomes a sure thing.

It may result in more parkhopper sales at WDW also, we usually skip the parkhopper option since we typically spend a full day at each park, but I don’t see us skipping a park entirely (due to the lost day to Uni) so we’ll likely get a hopper and combine AK and HS into one day. It’s still revenue loss to Disney but somewhat offset if we buy a more expensive ticket.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Universal may know how to build attractions but they have no idea how to efficiently run them. Their customer service is horrible and it shows in how they run their parks

 

[flynnibus]

I’m certainly not implying anything you mentioned.

But the other guy calling them 'an afterthought' sure was minimizing them because of their scale.

I am just saying that SeaWorld or Busch Gardens have different expectations, and the standards that will be expected of EU are not the same as those parks.

They are different.

And the different is what I was kinda pointing out. They are not trying to be these 'be in the bubble' experience WDW built out to be in the 90s and onward.