News Disney plans to accelerate Parks investment to $60 billion over 10 years

[LSLS]

Well, there aren't park reservations anymore, so it's less "complicated" than it was 2 months ago.

So here's something to think about but this is all just me thinking out loud about Epic Universe and how it impacts Orlando as a whole as a destination ecosystem.

Let's list all the attractions at EU:

Celestial Park: Starfall Racers (coaster), Constellation Carousel (flat ride)
Super Nintendo World: Mario Kart (dark ride), Yoshi Adventure (dark ride) Mine Cart Madness (coaster)
Dark Universe: Frankenstein (dark ride), Werewolf (coaster)
Potter: Battle at the Ministry (dark ride)
HTTYD: Wing Gliders (coaster), Dragon Racers (spinner?), Dyre Drill (boat/dark ride)

Coasters: 4
Dark Rides: 5
Flat Rides: 2

That's 11 rides not including 2 stage shows.

Epic Universe is going to garner A LOT of hype. Brand new park, probably going to look awesome and have some great experiences. But it's 11 rides. That's Hollywood Studios. After 6? 12? months is there going to be a narrative that there isn't a lot to do at EU and it's a 1 day park? People consider DHS a half day park! (I'm not comparing ride quality, just quantity)

There is an argument to be made that EU might have the same impact (if not greater) on WDW as them adding a new ride. If there is some kind of data that people are going to less parks at WDW because of cost, i.e. skipping AK or DHS or Epcot during their stay (I believe @lentesta asked the same question) then EU might give people an excuse to book a (shorter) WDW vacation to see EU when they weren't going to book an Orlando trip at all.

Just speculation but it depends on what happens on social media and what travel agents pick up on with guidance. Is EU worth at least 2 park days out of maybe 5 full days in Orlando (6N/7D stay)? Or is worth 1 along with 4 other days to do something. Is that 4 other days WDW?

I'm curious to see how the ecosystem reacts after the dust settles after opening.

A lot will depend on other things. 11 rides and 2 shows could be Ok as a start if there are other things too. For example, one thing they did mention was a wet play area in Celestial Park. If you have things like that throughout, on top of a lot of interactive things (can't you hit blocks in Nintendo World or something like that?), characters all around, and things like parades, I think it ends up much different than DHS, where it's really rides/shows and not a lot else (other than Galaxy Edge where there is at least a lot to look at). And as others have said, it's much different if there is expansion as well (which we will see).

 

[Andrew25]

While we're years out from anything major opening, my excitement about Disney parks has slowly increased these past few weeks as we hear more about additional park investment... especially around capacity concerns. If the Country Bear update is a hit, that'll certainly be a step in the right direction.

This year's D23 will be their last chance at redeeming themselves before Universal takes over the market in the short term for the next 2 years or so.

Even with Universal building a whole new park, WDW can (and I hate saying this) "easily" compete by bringing back a night parade and adding additional entertainment/events in the park.

People aren't going to skip WDW in favor of Universal entirely, the battle will be over what happens to the "non-MK" days.

 

[Cliff]

While we're years out from anything major opening, my excitement about Disney parks has slowly increased these past few weeks as we hear more about additional park investment... especially around capacity concerns. If the Country Bear update is a hit, that'll certainly be a step in the right direction.

This year's D23 will be their last chance at redeeming themselves before Universal takes over the market in the short term for the next 2 years or so.

Even with Universal building a whole new park, WDW can (and I hate saying this) "easily" compete by bringing back a night parade and adding additional entertainment/events in the park.

People aren't going to skip WDW in favor of Universal entirely, the battle will be over what happens to the "non-MK" days.

I suspect that Epic Universe will not eat into Magic Kingdom guest numbers very much. If vacationers have 5 days in Orlando to see Universal, they will likely reserve one or two for Magic Kingdom.

However, I do suspect that Animal Kingdom and Epcot could have days "stolen" and moved to Universal and Epic Universe. If you only have 3 days to vacation, what eight major Orlando theme parks do you choose?

For sure,...Magic Kingdom and Epic Universe will compete for #1 and #2 in 2025. The remaining parks all bump down a notch with Islands of Adventure and Universal Studios benefiting from Epic's coattails.

Besides, Disney has very little NEW and "interesting" happening for the next five years!

 

[doctornick]

Well, there aren't park reservations anymore, so it's less "complicated" than it was 2 months ago.

IIRC, park reservations still exist for some sorts of tickets (e.g. APs and I think some promotional ones)

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Leading a horse to water but you can't make then drink it.

And given the post below- which sadly is true- I'd say the water is bitter:

Y'know,...all our complaints are NOT "Disney's" fault. Every single thing that drives us crazy is just Disney's reaction to "our" consumer habits.

Genie+ - We don't like it? So what,..customers buy into it and it doesn't hurt parks attendance or profit.
No new Parks investment? - So what, that's not stopping hoards of people from going to the Parks...so why spend the money? It's just not worth it for them.
Reservation system? - You don't like it? Too bad, hoards of people use it and go anyway.
Latest attractions don't inspire you? - Nobody cares, park numbers are strong regardless.
Don't like Disney's activism and politics? - Sorry, 99% of Disney's guests don't follow Disney that closely or care enough to not go to the parks. 99% of the guests don't care if Walt is turning in his grave.
Attractions down, maintenance problems and parks not clean? - Nope,...99% of the money walking into the gates do not care and that does not stop them. Most barely pay attention enough to notice old paint and dirt and filth.

Disney is reacting to customer spending habits. As long as people have blind devotion to the Parks, Disney will keep doing EXACTLY what it is doing today. Change must start with CUSTOMER "spending" first. Complaining on social media does nothing. Refusing to go to the parks in extremely high numbers....now THAT forces Disney to react to the market.

We as consumers FUEL and POWER Disney. As long as the Parks are well-fed and fat with guest's revenue?...they have NO "FINANCIAL" REASON to change or improve.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Well, there aren't park reservations anymore, so it's less "complicated" than it was 2 months ago.

So here's something to think about but this is all just me thinking out loud about Epic Universe and how it impacts Orlando as a whole as a destination ecosystem.

Let's list all the attractions at EU:

Celestial Park: Starfall Racers (coaster), Constellation Carousel (flat ride)
Super Nintendo World: Mario Kart (dark ride), Yoshi Adventure (dark ride) Mine Cart Madness (coaster)
Dark Universe: Frankenstein (dark ride), Werewolf (coaster)
Potter: Battle at the Ministry (dark ride)
HTTYD: Wing Gliders (coaster), Dragon Racers (spinner?), Dyre Drill (boat/dark ride)

Coasters: 4
Dark Rides: 5
Flat Rides: 2

That's 11 rides not including 2 stage shows.

Epic Universe is going to garner A LOT of hype. Brand new park, probably going to look awesome and have some great experiences. But it's 11 rides. That's Hollywood Studios. After 6? 12? months is there going to be a narrative that there isn't a lot to do at EU and it's a 1 day park? People consider DHS a half day park! (I'm not comparing ride quality, just quantity)

There is an argument to be made that EU might have the same impact (if not greater) on WDW as them adding a new ride. If there is some kind of data that people are going to less parks at WDW because of cost, i.e. skipping AK or DHS or Epcot during their stay (I believe @lentesta asked the same question) then EU might give people an excuse to book a (shorter) WDW vacation to see EU when they weren't going to book an Orlando trip at all.

Just speculation but it depends on what happens on social media and what travel agents pick up on with guidance. Is EU worth at least 2 park days out of maybe 5 full days in Orlando (6N/7D stay)? Or is worth 1 along with 4 other days to do something. Is that 4 other days WDW?

I'm curious to see how the ecosystem reacts after the dust settles after opening.

Park reservations still exist for annual pass holders though which is a lot of normally high spending frequent visiting DVC members. The GtG days are a joke.

 

[Andrew25]

I suspect that Epic Universe will not eat into Magic Kingdom guest numbers very much. If vacationers have 5 days in Orlando to see Universal, they will likely reserve one or two for Magic Kingdom.

However, I do suspect that Animal Kingdom and Epcot could have days "stolen" and moved to Universal and Epic Universe. If you only have 3 days to vacation, what eight major Orlando theme parks do you choose?

For sure,...Magic Kingdom and Epic Universe will compete for #1 and #2 in 2025. The remaining parks all bump down a notch with Islands of Adventure and Universal Studios benefiting from Epic's coattails.

Besides, Disney has very little NEW and "interesting" happening for the next five years!

Yup, MK will also be "king" in Orlando. BUT, all the other parks will be in a death match. Universal will become a "solid" minimum 2-day destination (most still see it as a 2-park 1-day excursion).

Right now WDW has people convinced that they need a 5-day trip, 4 days at parks 1 day at a water park, or Disney Springs. Universal has stolen one of those park days (and water park days with VB)... with Epic they'll steal another day or so.

The one thing that might surprisingly help WDW is that Universal is flirting with selling only 1-Day tickets for Epic during the first few months, no APs, no multi-day tickets.

 

[JD80]

A lot will depend on other things. 11 rides and 2 shows could be Ok as a start if there are other things too. For example, one thing they did mention was a wet play area in Celestial Park. If you have things like that throughout, on top of a lot of interactive things (can't you hit blocks in Nintendo World or something like that?), characters all around, and things like parades, I think it ends up much different than DHS, where it's really rides/shows and not a lot else (other than Galaxy Edge where there is at least a lot to look at). And as others have said, it's much different if there is expansion as well (which we will see).

I'm giving EU the benefit of the doubt and sayings its a full day park (night time show and parade) and not a half day park like DHS. Is it fun enough or crowded enough to make it a 2 day park? That's basically it. If it's a 2 day park, then it's a Universal Trip. If it's a 1 Day park it can be a WDW Trip with a day at EU.

Universal wants their resort to be a full week thing. They have to prove that. There is a chance that after it's opened, it's still not enough to get enough people to do a full week. Time will tell.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Well, there aren't park reservations anymore, so it's less "complicated" than it was 2 months ago.

So here's something to think about but this is all just me thinking out loud about Epic Universe and how it impacts Orlando as a whole as a destination ecosystem.

Let's list all the attractions at EU:

Celestial Park: Starfall Racers (coaster), Constellation Carousel (flat ride)
Super Nintendo World: Mario Kart (dark ride), Yoshi Adventure (dark ride) Mine Cart Madness (coaster)
Dark Universe: Frankenstein (dark ride), Werewolf (coaster)
Potter: Battle at the Ministry (dark ride)
HTTYD: Wing Gliders (coaster), Dragon Racers (spinner?), Dyre Drill (boat/dark ride)

Coasters: 4
Dark Rides: 5
Flat Rides: 2

That's 11 rides not including 2 stage shows.

Epic Universe is going to garner A LOT of hype. Brand new park, probably going to look awesome and have some great experiences. But it's 11 rides. That's Hollywood Studios. After 6? 12? months is there going to be a narrative that there isn't a lot to do at EU and it's a 1 day park? People consider DHS a half day park! (I'm not comparing ride quality, just quantity)

There is an argument to be made that EU might have the same impact (if not greater) on WDW as them adding a new ride. If there is some kind of data that people are going to less parks at WDW because of cost, i.e. skipping AK or DHS or Epcot during their stay (I believe @lentesta asked the same question) then EU might give people an excuse to book a (shorter) WDW vacation to see EU when they weren't going to book an Orlando trip at all.

Just speculation but it depends on what happens on social media and what travel agents pick up on with guidance. Is EU worth at least 2 park days out of maybe 5 full days in Orlando (6N/7D stay)? Or is worth 1 along with 4 other days to do something. Is that 4 other days WDW?

I'm curious to see how the ecosystem reacts after the dust settles after opening.

I think a lot of Disney guests of the past are thinking it’ll be time to try Uni. Go to all 3 parks and maybe even the water park or heck visit sea world for a day (everything non Disney to see if it’s better).

While Disney booking trends are down, Uni booking trends are up. (from past history)

 

[JD80]

I suspect that Epic Universe will not eat into Magic Kingdom guest numbers very much. If vacationers have 5 days in Orlando to see Universal, they will likely reserve one or two for Magic Kingdom.

However, I do suspect that Animal Kingdom and Epcot could have days "stolen" and moved to Universal and Epic Universe. If you only have 3 days to vacation, what eight major Orlando theme parks do you choose?

For sure,...Magic Kingdom and Epic Universe will compete for #1 and #2 in 2025. The remaining parks all bump down a notch with Islands of Adventure and Universal Studios benefiting from Epic's coattails.

Besides, Disney has very little NEW and "interesting" happening for the next five years!

Here's the thing, I don't think the bigger question at hand is who gets more days at what park. I think the BIG question is does EU create a big enough draw where it entices people to book a WDW trip with a a day to see EU when they weren't considering a trip at all.

Does EU drive more WDW attendance when it's currently lagging?

 

[Tha Realest]

It’s funny how some here keep believing this company is on the precipice of the next great phase of WDW parks expansion when it refuses to staff and operate more than one of their already built and operable water parks at the same time.

 

[JD80]

IIRC, park reservations still exist for some sorts of tickets (e.g. APs and I think some promotional ones)

The people that don't go to WDW because of the complexity argument don't have APs (for the most part). The complexity thing prevents return trips (no APs) or the sour experience is related to other families booking a first time trip or a first time in a long time trip (not APs).

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Besides, Disney has very little NEW and "interesting" happening for the next five years!

Quoted for posterity

 

[JD80]

I think a lot of Disney guests of the past are thinking it’ll be time to try Uni. Go to all 3 parks and maybe even the water park or heck visit sea world for a day (everything non Disney to see if it’s better).

While Disney booking trends are down, Uni booking trends are up. (from past history)

Didn't Universal just release a quarterly report that it was on par with 2019? I didn't look in to it, but my first impression was that it's down because they were really up in the last few years.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Didn't Universal just release a quarterly report that it was on par with 2019? I didn't look in to it, but my first impression was that it's down because they were really up in the last few years.

I meant travel agent quote requests and bookings… more interest in Uni than in the past and less with Disney

 

[LSLS]

Here's the thing, I don't think the bigger question at hand is who gets more days at what park. I think the BIG question is does EU create a big enough draw where it entices people to book a WDW trip with a a day to see EU when they weren't considering a trip at all.

Does EU drive more WDW attendance when it's currently lagging?

I guess that's possible (and honestly it feels like that is what Disney is banking on happening), but I'd be surprised if it's any significant bump. If people stopped going because of pricing, paying that price plus the extreme price for a single day Universal ticket is asking a lot. If they stopped because there is nothing new, or they feel the quality has dropped, there is nothing to draw those back either.

If Universal is smart, they create packages that really incentivize people not doing that. They already have extreme discounts once you start staying past like 2-3 days. I could see them doing like a buy 3 days of tickets with hopper, get one day free and one day at Epic. Book 5 nights at a deluxe with your ticket package and get free fast passes (or whatever their front of line is called). Epic is going to sell tickets no matter what, but I'd think business wise it'd be worth trying to get people spending their whole time with the other parks.

 

[ToTBellHop]

It’s funny how some here keep believing this company is on the precipice of the next great phase of WDW parks expansion when it refuses to staff and operate more than one of their already built and operable water parks at the same time.

I don’t think there are enough lifeguards available. Meanwhile, Universal has 2+ hr waits for Hagrid and Velocicoaster today and will close at 7 pm. They will struggle to staff their “weeklong vacation resort.”

 

[LSLS]

I don’t think there are enough lifeguards available. Meanwhile, Universal has 2+ hr waits for Hagrid and Velocicoaster today and will close at 7 pm. They will struggle to staff their “weeklong vacation resort.”

Cast members could be in for some nice raises. I have to think Universal is going to be making calls to a lot of Disney managers looking for good ones to staff their entire park. And then Disney is going to need to counter that.

The time thing is an issue at Universal. I can say personally that is no small reason we don't go there (especially when you see like 10-6 as hours).

 

[el_super]

This year's D23 will be their last chance at redeeming themselves before Universal takes over the market in the short term for the next 2 years or so.

That's actually not a bad thing for Disney. They need the break.

If the headlines around Epic Universe opening are "Disney parks are finally EMPTY" people will start flocking back there. Attendance will reach equilibrium.

There is a bias in thinking that NEW attractions are the only attractions that have value, but given a couple years off/away, people will come back to experience their old favorites again. The pandemic proved that.

I think this has been part of Disney's long term plan for awhile now, and it has almost nothing to do with Epic. They are planning for the inevitable dip in attendance that would naturally happen a few years out from TRON/RAT/SWGE/PANDORA opening.

 

[el_super]

I don’t think there are enough lifeguards available. Meanwhile, Universal has 2+ hr waits for Hagrid and Velocicoaster today and will close at 7 pm. They will struggle to staff their “weeklong vacation resort.”

That's really weird but it might not be unexpected. Universal's hours might be dictated by the average ticket prices. If the park is full of discounted admissions (APs), they are going to be less inclined to spend on longer park operating hours because it has no actual impact on revenue.

Universal is going to be under a lot of pressure to start extracting more revenue from their property with the third park. It's going to be hard to do if Universal's primary draw is being the cheaper alternative.