Indeed. Don't forget The Incredibles!
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News Disney Has Purchased Approximately 235 Acres of Land
- Thread starter SplashJacket
- Start date
Indeed. Don't forget The Incredibles!
danlb_2000
Premium Member
Yes, I agree, but I still can't see it going over well if Iger were to go in front of the board of directors and say they going to spend 3-4 billion on a Star Wars theme park and trying to assure them that they will get it right this time.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
I’ve always thought playing it safe with star tours was a punt...now putting only “our stuff” In the new land doubles down on that...
Pity...can’t go at the big dog and “miss”
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I'm on Maui for Christmas and there's a Wolfgang Puck Spago restaurant in my hotel (Retro Disney World reference!) with a very good bartender whom I've become friends with over the past week. As I sit here late afternoon Hawaii Standard Time at the Spago bar I just have to throw this out there after staring out at the beach and scribbling some math on a few cocktail napkins, in case anyone forgets that acreage doesn't always equal activity, much less quality.
Ride counts per park as of the year 2020, to include the Star Wars Land stuff, Runaway Railway, Tokyo expansion opening this spring, Marvel Land in DCA this summer, etc.
- Disney's Animal Kingdom - 580 acres = 8 Rides, 5 are E Tickets
- Epcot - 300 acres = 9 Rides, 4 are E Tickets
- Tokyo DisneySea - 176 acres = 21 Rides, 6 are E Tickets
- Disney's Hollywood Studios - 135 acres = 9 Rides, 5 are E Tickets (assuming Runaway Railway is an E)
- Disneyland Paris - 126 acres = 22 Rides, 6 are E Tickets
- Tokyo Disneyland - 115 acres = 27 Rides, 8 are E Tickets
- Magic Kingdom - 105 acres = 25 Rides, 7 are E Tickets
- Disneyland - 85 acres = 37 Rides, 13 are E Tickets
- Disney California Adventure - 72 acres = 19 Rides, 5 are E Tickets
- Hong Kong Disneyland - 68 acres = 17 Rides, 6 are E Tickets
- Walt Disney Studios, Paris - 62 acres = 9 Rides, 3 are E Tickets
As seen above, acreage is generally a poor way to determine how good and/or entertaining a theme park will be.
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HauntedMansionFLA
Well-Known Member
A Frozen ride will be going into DLR tooI'm on Maui for Christmas and there's a Wolfgang Puck Spago restaurant in my hotel (Retro Disney World reference!) with a very good bartender whom I've become friends with over the past week. As I sit here late afternoon Hawaii Standard Time at the Spago bar I just have to throw this out there after staring out at the beach and scribbling some math on a few cocktail napkins, in case anyone forgets that acreage doesn't always equal activity, much less quality.
Ride counts per park as of the year 2020, to include the Star Wars Land stuff, Runaway Railway, Tokyo expansion opening this spring, Marvel Land in DCA this summer, etc.
Disneyland USA is one of the smaller parks by acreage but has the most rides by a long shot, with an additional E Ticket now under construction for 2022 (Runaway Railway). Animal Kingdom is the biggest park by acreage, likely never to be exceeded, and yet it has the lowest ride count in the entire Disney empire even after its huge Pandora expansion recently.
- Disney's Animal Kingdom - 580 acres = 8 Rides, 5 are E Tickets
- Epcot - 300 acres = 9 Rides, 4 are E Tickets
- Tokyo DisneySea - 176 acres = 21 Rides, 6 are E Tickets
- Disney's Hollywood Studios - 135 acres = 9 Rides, 5 are E Tickets (assuming Runaway Railway is an E)
- Disneyland Paris - 126 acres = 22 Rides, 6 are E Tickets
- Tokyo Disneyland - 115 acres = 27 Rides, 8 are E Tickets
- Magic Kingdom - 105 acres = 25 Rides, 7 are E Tickets
- Disneyland - 85 acres = 37 Rides, 13 are E Tickets
- Disney California Adventure - 72 acres = 19 Rides, 5 are E Tickets
- Hong Kong Disneyland - 68 acres = 17 Rides, 6 are E Tickets
- Walt Disney Studios, Paris - 62 acres = 9 Rides, 3 are E Tickets
As seen above, acreage is generally a poor way to determine how good and/or entertaining a theme park will be.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
I’m only liking this comment for the Maui, spago and drinks references...I'm on Maui for Christmas and there's a Wolfgang Puck Spago restaurant in my hotel (Retro Disney World reference!) with a very good bartender whom I've become friends with over the past week. As I sit here late afternoon Hawaii Standard Time at the Spago bar I just have to throw this out there after staring out at the beach and scribbling some math on a few cocktail napkins, in case anyone forgets that acreage doesn't always equal activity, much less quality.
Ride counts per park as of the year 2020, to include the Star Wars Land stuff, Runaway Railway, Tokyo expansion opening this spring, Marvel Land in DCA this summer, etc.
Disneyland USA is one of the smaller parks by acreage but has the most rides by a long shot, with an additional E Ticket now under construction for 2022 (Runaway Railway). Animal Kingdom is the biggest park by acreage, likely never to be exceeded, and yet it has the lowest ride count in the entire Disney empire even after its huge Pandora expansion recently.
- Disney's Animal Kingdom - 580 acres = 8 Rides, 5 are E Tickets
- Epcot - 300 acres = 9 Rides, 4 are E Tickets
- Tokyo DisneySea - 176 acres = 21 Rides, 6 are E Tickets
- Disney's Hollywood Studios - 135 acres = 9 Rides, 5 are E Tickets (assuming Runaway Railway is an E)
- Disneyland Paris - 126 acres = 22 Rides, 6 are E Tickets
- Tokyo Disneyland - 115 acres = 27 Rides, 8 are E Tickets
- Magic Kingdom - 105 acres = 25 Rides, 7 are E Tickets
- Disneyland - 85 acres = 37 Rides, 13 are E Tickets
- Disney California Adventure - 72 acres = 19 Rides, 5 are E Tickets
- Hong Kong Disneyland - 68 acres = 17 Rides, 6 are E Tickets
- Walt Disney Studios, Paris - 62 acres = 9 Rides, 3 are E Tickets
As seen above, acreage is generally a poor way to determine how good and/or entertaining a theme park will be.
Carry on, otherwise
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Yes, there are several new rides under construction in Anaheim currently, including two big E Tickets (Runaway Railway and Avengers). Also a few new rides under construction in WDW currently. All of those open in 2021 or 2022.
But I just used the 2020 cutoff date because it's so close to December 31st and I'm trying to decide what to wear to a New Year's Eve party I'm going to, it's easy to tell what will open within a few months from now, and 2020 is a nice round number.
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Stevie Amsterdam
Well-Known Member
Thanks for this! Do you happen to know the numbers for Walt Disney Studios Park in Paris after Marvel, Frozen and Star Wars have been build? Will it still be at the bottom of this list?
Ravenclaw78
Well-Known Member
The Incredibles are a Pixar-original IP, not Marvel. Big Hero Six, though published without the Marvel logo and very few consumers know it's not an original IP, is actually an extremely obscure Marvel property that is exempt from the Universal contract because none of the characters have ever been part of The Avengers, Spider Man, or Fantastic Four comic books.
Indy_UK
Well-Known Member
I don’t think they have. If you look at the animatronics used in Galaxies Edge, they could easily be changed out into different eras
I think the suggestion, as implied was to say that any Superhero expansion would be welcome. It wouldn't have to be a land specific to only-Marvel properties. The later option being more limiting. To pad it out, more would need to be brought in either under the Marvel banner or pulled from other sources to develop a heroland. For IPs, Bringing back "The Rocketeer" would be a good start.. He IS* a superhero.
There's a LOT more Disney could do if they were to broaden the genre beyond Marvel to include other IPs like Pixar's The Incredibles.
Heck even a babysitting bounty hunter could be labeled a "hero" if the land dictates.
Personally I think all of this
(We don't need a 5th park)
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djkidkaz
Well-Known Member
I would imagine that Disney looked into creating a 5th theme park or sharing the funds across the board at the current parks. Obviously, they chose to use all this influx of cash at WDW to expand the current parks. In my opinion, once the 50th is about to end and all these new additions are firmly in place, that would be a great time to invest in a 5th park as the final punch to get guests who have maybe held out to come visit.
That's fine because WDW can't even use the Marvel brand in WDW (nor in DL). So, generic super hero land, here we come!
DDLand
Well-Known Member
The worries about attendance increasing drastically due to new attractions at Magic Kingdom are unfounded. People have tried to link Magic Kingdom’s 2010s growth with New Fantasyland. The two are largely unconnected. My hypothesis is that Magic Kingdom would have grown pretty much the same amount during the 2010s without New Fantasyland.
If only there was a similar park with similar offerings in the domestic US to act as a “control” for my hypothesis.
Luckily there is! Disneyland added essentially no capacity from 2008-2018. While refurbs, rebrands, and nighttime spectaculars do their part in driving performance, there’s nothing like a new attraction. Let’s compare attendance for Disneyland Park to Magic Kingdom from 2008 to 2018.
2008:
Magic Kingdom- 17 million
Disneyland Park- 14.7 million
2018
Magic Kingdom- 20.9 million
Disneyland Park- 18.7
Change 2008-2018
Magic Kingdom- +3.9 million
Disneyland Park- +4 million
It’s striking how similar the two numbers are. While Magic Kingdom had a flashy new addition in the period, Disneyland Park quietly moved along.
The Magic Kingdom has been driven primarily by strong consumer spending. While expansions certainly don’t hurt, they are not the driver behind these last few years. All indications are that Walt Disney World is having softening growth. This would be the perfect time to add some new attractions to Magic Kingdom! This not only gives the marketing teams something to publicize, but also boosts competitiveness and guest satisfaction. It could also be done with remarkable affordability. Suppose two dark rides were added for 150 million usd each (the Little Mermaid dark ride was infamous for costing 100+ million). That’s 300 million total. If the costs were spread out over three years that would be 100 million a year. A quick search says Disney’s CapEx has been at nearly 5 billion for the last 12 months. 100 million is a 50th of what Disney spends on Cap Ex a year.
The two rides for 300 million total would depreciate over 40 years, or at just 7.5 million per year on an ongoing basis. While staffing and upkeep would be an additional cost, Disney could add nearly 4000 hourly capacity for just 7.5 million in depreciation charges yearly. The Bob Chapek division reported 6.7 billion in operating profit in FY 2019. If Disney sacrificed 0.1% of its profits, millions of guests would have shorter lines and exciting new attractions.
Crowds at Magic Kingdom and all 4 parks are solvable problems. People wonder why 2x the amount of people visit MK. Perhaps it’s because MK has 2x the amount of rides as the other parks.
If only there was a similar park with similar offerings in the domestic US to act as a “control” for my hypothesis.
Luckily there is! Disneyland added essentially no capacity from 2008-2018. While refurbs, rebrands, and nighttime spectaculars do their part in driving performance, there’s nothing like a new attraction. Let’s compare attendance for Disneyland Park to Magic Kingdom from 2008 to 2018.
2008:
Magic Kingdom- 17 million
Disneyland Park- 14.7 million
2018
Magic Kingdom- 20.9 million
Disneyland Park- 18.7
Change 2008-2018
Magic Kingdom- +3.9 million
Disneyland Park- +4 million
It’s striking how similar the two numbers are. While Magic Kingdom had a flashy new addition in the period, Disneyland Park quietly moved along.
The Magic Kingdom has been driven primarily by strong consumer spending. While expansions certainly don’t hurt, they are not the driver behind these last few years. All indications are that Walt Disney World is having softening growth. This would be the perfect time to add some new attractions to Magic Kingdom! This not only gives the marketing teams something to publicize, but also boosts competitiveness and guest satisfaction. It could also be done with remarkable affordability. Suppose two dark rides were added for 150 million usd each (the Little Mermaid dark ride was infamous for costing 100+ million). That’s 300 million total. If the costs were spread out over three years that would be 100 million a year. A quick search says Disney’s CapEx has been at nearly 5 billion for the last 12 months. 100 million is a 50th of what Disney spends on Cap Ex a year.
The two rides for 300 million total would depreciate over 40 years, or at just 7.5 million per year on an ongoing basis. While staffing and upkeep would be an additional cost, Disney could add nearly 4000 hourly capacity for just 7.5 million in depreciation charges yearly. The Bob Chapek division reported 6.7 billion in operating profit in FY 2019. If Disney sacrificed 0.1% of its profits, millions of guests would have shorter lines and exciting new attractions.
Crowds at Magic Kingdom and all 4 parks are solvable problems. People wonder why 2x the amount of people visit MK. Perhaps it’s because MK has 2x the amount of rides as the other parks.
GoofTroop80
Member
I'm on Maui for Christmas and there's a Wolfgang Puck Spago restaurant in my hotel (Retro Disney World reference!) with a very good bartender whom I've become friends with over the past week. As I sit here late afternoon Hawaii Standard Time at the Spago bar I just have to throw this out there after staring out at the beach and scribbling some math on a few cocktail napkins, in case anyone forgets that acreage doesn't always equal activity, much less quality.
Ride counts per park as of the year 2020, to include the Star Wars Land stuff, Runaway Railway, Tokyo expansion opening this spring, Marvel Land in DCA this summer, etc.
Disneyland USA is one of the smaller parks by acreage but has the most rides by a long shot, with an additional E Ticket now under construction for 2022 (Runaway Railway). Animal Kingdom is the biggest park by acreage, likely never to be exceeded, and yet it has the lowest ride count in the entire Disney empire even after its huge Pandora expansion recently.
- Disney's Animal Kingdom - 580 acres = 8 Rides, 5 are E Tickets
- Epcot - 300 acres = 9 Rides, 4 are E Tickets
- Tokyo DisneySea - 176 acres = 21 Rides, 6 are E Tickets
- Disney's Hollywood Studios - 135 acres = 9 Rides, 5 are E Tickets (assuming Runaway Railway is an E)
- Disneyland Paris - 126 acres = 22 Rides, 6 are E Tickets
- Tokyo Disneyland - 115 acres = 27 Rides, 8 are E Tickets
- Magic Kingdom - 105 acres = 25 Rides, 7 are E Tickets
- Disneyland - 85 acres = 37 Rides, 13 are E Tickets
- Disney California Adventure - 72 acres = 19 Rides, 5 are E Tickets
- Hong Kong Disneyland - 68 acres = 17 Rides, 6 are E Tickets
- Walt Disney Studios, Paris - 62 acres = 9 Rides, 3 are E Tickets
As seen above, acreage is generally a poor way to determine how good and/or entertaining a theme park will be.
Good to see they're taking advantage of the gift of space with less to do than at DL
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Crowds though are not a problem but a deliberate outcome. The world’s busiest theme park isn’t even fully utilized with abandoned and underused guest spaces.
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
All that parking lot at DHS is meant for park expansions, with a parking garage to be built at a later date.
I believe that the expansion will be around 29 acres, which means that it will be bigger than DCA, (probably) HKDL and maybe DL.
FerretAfros
Well-Known Member
While it's true that DL didn't add any meaningful capacity from 2008 to 2018, much of the attendance growth can be linked to a perfect storm of events in that period that wouldn't produce similar results in WDW.
2008 was right around the time that DLR started offering monthly payments on annual passes for local residents. This also coincided with the Great Recession, with 15 million residents of the greater southern California region who were looking for more-modest staycations rather than big-budget trips afar. This paired with an increase in the "coolness" of DL among the general population, alongside the rise of social media and the flaunting that goes along with it. The result was an attendance boom that bucked all traditional trends and conventional wisdom, with APs choking the resort at unexpected times: evenings in October are now more crowded than summer weekends.
It also didn't hurt that DL's sister park 100 yards across the Esplanade had a steady stream of additions (of varying degrees of quality) during that period, including an unprecedented relaunch of the park in 2012.
DL has always relied heavily on locals, but in the past 10 years the focus has shifted from locals who visit every couple years to regulars who visit several times per year. Instead of a world-class destination, in a lot of ways it has devolved into a local hangout spot, like shopping malls in the 80's and 90's. WDW, on the other hand, relies heavily on long-distance travelers who may only make the pilgrimage once or twice per generation; while these guests may not be as fickle regarding individual attractions and experiences, they're much more difficult to attract in the first place, particularly during a slow economy.
That said, I don't disagree with your conclusion that MK can and should add more capacity at a fairly modest cost (even with WDI's bloated budgets) to help distribute the crowds better. MK will always be the most-visited park in WDW; there's no reason that the park's capacity should be as low as it is. It simply needs more of everything to help absorb the crowds out of the walkways and into other facilities. The MyMagic+ system has only served to exacerbate the park's existing problems, while pulling away funding that could have been used to help mitigate them.