Disney has built last park in Central Florida

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Pirate665 said:
Anyone else want to remark upon the sponsers thing?? I mean, I see it now......

"WELCOME TO WALT DISNEY WORLD, A PESPI-COLA ENDORSED RESORT! ENJOY YOUR STAY!"

I relize they pretty much do this now, but think of how bad it could get....


Actually... Pepsi used to be a coporate partner a long time ago, before coke becamse one.

God forbid you have Kodak Presenting SADCT, Great Movie Ride, or Philharmagic as well as Nestle presenting The Land and Soarin or Energizer presenting Star Tours... etc, etc, etc....
 

CSUFSteve

Active Member
Pirate665 said:
Plus... we all know Dr. Pepper rocks the house.

Pirate665, yeah!!!, you know it bud!

Seriously, I'm all for taking a breather on additional gates for Disney World or other Disney Resorts. I did an analysis on attendance figures in a Tokyo-section post ("TDS attendance"), but basically Disney World has not yet recovered from the cannibilization wrought by Animal Kingdom, and yet they have the expenses of an additional park. According to Amusement Business, 1997 combined attendance for all 3 WDW parks was 39.26 million. 2004 total for WDW's 4 parks was 40.65 million. Banner year 2000 was 43.2 million.

That screams it would not make sense for Disney to open a major new park. A new water park might make sense given the continued high attendance of BB and TL. And I for one, as others have said, would like to see the investment go into existing parks.

My fear, Disney being Disney, is that the "add'l investment" would be half-a**. But hopefully the tide is turning as, here at Disneyland Resort, we thank god for Matt Ouimet breathing new life into Walt's park. The Park looks so fantastic and even normal guests are noticing it. It's great to see and I think all of us are shocked to realize how neglected the Park had gotten. It's so great to see. And Matt actually gets it that Joe Schmoe comes to the Parks for attractions, not "Merchandise Special Events" or new counter service menus. We are going from not having a new E-Ticket since Indiana Jones in 1995, to having Buzz, Nemo, Monsters, and even new monorail trains!
 

MiklCraw4d

Member
Ha

Interesting article! And cutting through all the ridiculous analyst-speak and Wall Street tripe I actually think it's good for us hard-core fans.

First, I've been against a fifth theme park in the short term. I don't consider MGM or DAK to be full-day, complete parks. They need a lot of further investment to begin to approach being reasonably built-out. Even building DAK out to its announced specs would get me to lengthen a hypothetical vacation (assuming I could afford to add an extra day).

What's funny about the article is the typically breathless proclamations of 'big change!' from Wall Street types. As usual, the investment community has no long-term sense of history or the future.

Especially significant are the overblown statements of how big a deal it is for Disney to change their focus from kids to adults, and how the sub-14 demographic is shrinking. I would say that if you look at WDW in the 1970's, a great deal of its marketing focus was on adults and encouraging multi-day vacations (even with just one park!). If you look at that old material you'll see a great deal about golf, tennis, and water activities. River Country and Fort Wilderness were widely publicized for their recreational potential, and resort features like "Top of the World" and the Luau were used to try and attract multi-day adult vacations. The addition of EPCOT (World Showcase especially) also enhanced this focus on adults without children.

I think the frantic pandering to young children only began in earnest in the 1990's, and the desperate desire to appeal to such a constantly changing group led to a lot of the complaints that die-hards had in that era.

Perhaps with the pool of families with younger children shrinking, WDW will no longer be able to depend on culling the endless pool of first-time vistors. Instead, they'll have to focus on retention and bringing in repeat visitors more than ever. I can only hope that this will lead to constant refurbishment and enhancement of the existing parks, more emphasis on the fantastic out-of-park activities, and - dare I suggest it - a more forgiving price structure.

That is really the hope that I get from this article. I hope the desire to lengthen guest stays in a competitive market will lead to more competitive prices. In this case, competition from other destinations can only mean good things for us addicts. While Disney might not get the ridiculous marginal increases from year to year that they did in the 90's, only the most ignorant Wall Street bubblehead would think that that was sustainable in the long term (Eisner's obsession with the 20% rule was long the biggest beef I had with him).

Thankfully, both Disney and local officials seem to recognize this in the article. The 'Disney Decade' was an unprecedented period of expansion for a reason - there had been a long period of stagnation and the area was due for growth. But WDW was only catching up to the market demand; it can't force the market to grow beyond a certain point no matter how hard they try (especially if they continued the decline of show that hovered in the late 90's).

I don't think, though, that DAK is the last park that'll be built in Florida. That's a pretty silly assertion. It took WDW more than 25 years to reach the four park level, and although they can't keep popping new gates out every five years doesn't mean they're done forever. They do, however, need to finish what they started at MGM and DAK and make sure they're getting the most bang for the buck out of those two gates as they can. I think it'll be much better for guests if Disney invests $1 Billion or more in the four existing parks than to use it to make another incomplete new gate.

So, my hopes:

- Steady growth and addition to the existing parks.

- More forgiving prices and incentives.

- A renewed focus on attracting families, not only 'children'. Parents are the ultimate arbiters of where the money gets spent and are the gatekeepers for repeat visits. This is less likely to happen if they're just sitting watching kids on a jungle gym (shades of Walt by the carousel) or sitting outside Mission: Space because they don't want to have a heart attack.

- Refurbishment and renewal inside the parks, and a renewed focus on resort activities and amenities.

- Free pie for everyone!

- Catching WDW resorts up with those right outside property regarding what special benefits guests get for their dollars spent.

Here's hoping!
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
CTXRover said:
We don't need a fifth park. Orlando has already reached a point of oversaturation with parks at Disney, Universal and Seaworld. This can be seen from the fact that since AK and IOA opened, the crowds have more or less spread out rather than leading to more people coming to Orlando as a whole (there are other tourism factors at play, but we need not go there).

As I said in another thread, I don't think the fact that DAK didn't bring more people to WDW is evidence of anything but the fact that DAK failed to broaden the WDW audience - by design. From the outside world AK appears no more than a Disneified Zoo. Is this accurate? Maybe not - but that doesn't stop the perception from taking hold.

DAK didn't bring anything "new" to WDW to appeal to people that WDW didn't already appeal to. People who weren't going to WDW before weren't going to come down for more of the same (even if it did have animals, most people live closer to zoo's that have more in that department anyway).

IOA is another beast entirely, and it suffers from three problems : 1) lack of brand name recognition (at least compared to Disney), 2) scope of resort, and 3) inertia of construction. Although themepark fans are aware of Universal, they will never be anywhere near as recognizable as Disney in any way, shape, or form. No matter how many nifty little new TV commercials they come up with they can't change the fact that most of us grew up watching specials about Disney/Disneyland/WDW and it's part of the fabric of our culture.

1) Say "Universal" to people and nothing overwhelmingly comes to mind for the average person who hasn't visited the parks - maybe images of the Hollywood tram tour. You say Disney, and people think of their favorite characters - Mickey, Donald, or Pooh, or one of dozens of others, they think magic, they think history, etc. Universal has nothing on this scale - they DO have recognizable characters within the parks, but it's a mish-mash with little common theme and they aren't indentified with "Universal" in common public perception (from Sponge Bob to the Terminator).

2) UO is pretty tiny. It's not a "vacation destination", again, no matter what those commercials tell you. On a good day you could visit all the major attractions in both parks before closing. IOA can be done in a morning if you get there early enough and really haul behind. (Hulk, Spiderman, Bluto, Ripshaw, Dueling Dragons, Jurrasic Park and you're just about finished.) The slate of E-tickets at IOA is impressive, but there is not an entire resort to absorb the rest of the time. UO is a weekend destination, not a week-long vacation.

3) Inertia. Construction at UO has been stagnant since IOA opened, with only one major attraction constructed since them (not counting "Sponge Bob", as it's a refit). AFAIK, IOA hasn't really added anything at all. This means that the people who come to UO have little reason to return regularly. For those who venture all that way just for UO, it doesn't live up to being a full resort and those that venture from WDW generally only do so occasionally for a change of pace. It doesn't have that feel of constant evolution as WDW does. USF is a great park - but it's identity is muddled and doesn't have the power of a ubiquitous brand name ingrained since childhood; it doesn't bring people back again and again.

That said, it's an interesting article. It actually leads me to believe that we will see some VERY interesting announcements on May 5. To think the timing of this article wasn't carfully planned would be folly. It's either going to be underwhelming (announcing Pooh's meet and greet) or overwhelming (finally us getting Indy). The tone of the article is a bit disjointed - I think I'm going to need to read it a few more times before I can say more about that.

To be honest, MGM needs some help to reduce the Sunset congestion, MK still has a hole left in it that 20K once filled (and I'm not talking land, I'm talking balance), AK has a whole slew of issues that EE will at the same time solve and create, and Epcot could really use some help in WS. As much as I'd love a villians park, and do think WDW has a huge untapped market of visitors who just can't get past the "kiddie" image many hold (justified or not), I'd be just as happy with the development of the parks as is. However, I'm not convinced how long it's going to last - and it still wouldn't surprise me if by the end of the decade Disney begins to understand that designing for the prototypical "family" (i.e. parents, toddlers, and elderly) audience inherently limits the scope of appeal of WDW.

I'm not getting my hopes up about May 5 - that too would be folly. And I certainly don't think (nor have I ever held) that a Villians park or some other darker theme would happen in the immediate future, but I do think eventually WDW will be forced to address the fact that while WDW has the absolute corner and patent on the "magical" market, that "magical" has a much broader definition than "appealing to preschoolers" as a goal and everyone else a secondary market to hit if possible but not a priority. So much disposable income out there - especially with people who don't have children - that Disney could tap into if only they could get them on property with something whiz-bang and more mature than the current image of WDW projects.

DAK simply wasn't designed to appeal to a wider audience than WDW already had covered, and IOA wasn't enough to bring people across the country who weren't going to WDW too. The fact that neither of them increased the overall visitors to the area is pretty obvious in retrospect - but that doesn't mean another gate wouldn't work to achieve this goal if done with the proper criteria in mind.

AEfx
 

MiklCraw4d

Member
Amen

Computer Magic said:
Many industries are looking overseas for growth,so it's no suprise that Disney has and will continue to invest there. Although they need to be careful of over saturating the market with theme parks. I thought I heard Disney Orlando receives alot of their revenue from oversee tourist. If there is a park nearby with the same attractions, why travel to Orlando?

Absolutely! I am really nervous about Big Mike's recent inclination to put a small Disney park in every emerging Asian economy. I have this nightmarish image of crappy Magic Kingdoms speckling the Pacific Rim diminishing the brand.

I would guarantee the eventual parade of analysts that are shocked - shocked! - when it eventually cuts into WDW's overseas market share. And overseas visitors are very important to WDW. Al Weiss won't be too happy when there are little three-land parks in Hong Kong, Singapore, Bejing, Bangkok, New Delhi, Perth, Seoul and the big one in Tokyo leeching his visitors.

I'm not a big one for schadenfreude, but I'm really hoping that Hong Kong lays a big goose egg in September. I read the list of opening day 'attractions' and it's very discouraging. Disney won't take a bath like they did in the early years of DLP; the HK government will mostly get the financial shaft if something goes amiss. But it might help warn off other governments from being Disney's patsies if the new management tries to continue Eisner's scheme.

DCA, Studios Paris... if Hong Kong flops too, maybe someone will get the message...
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
As I said in another thread, I don't think the fact that DAK didn't bring more people to WDW is evidence of anything but the fact that DAK failed to broaden the WDW audience - by design. From the outside world AK appears no more than a Disneified Zoo. Is this accurate? Maybe not - but that doesn't stop the perception from taking hold.

DAK didn't bring anything "new" to WDW to appeal to people that WDW didn't already appeal to. People who weren't going to WDW before weren't going to come down for more of the same (even if it did have animals, most people live closer to zoo's that have more in that department anyway).

Well, that will be the problem with pretty much any new theme park they open. I'm not sure that the aim of AK was to broaden the appeal of WDW to people who weren't already inclined to go, but rather to provide more to do which would encourage people to come and spend more time.

There are niches that I guess Disney can more effectively target, but in terms of entertainment WDW offers a fairly complete mix already. What they need to do is continually refresh what's currently there and adjust the mix to adapt to changing tastes. Whether themed to villains, purely roller coasters or whatever, I don't think another theme park will broaden Disney's customer base significantly. New attractions and rehabs take advantage of the significant 'theme park infrastructure' that Disney already has in place, gives people an incentive to keep coming back and helps to keep the place up to speed with changing trends for new guests. As someone else said, Disney probably can't extend at this stage the amount of days people can spend at the resort and has plenty of excess capacity to be filled before the need would arise for another park.
 

WDW_Sam

Member
I think Disney should leave Florida as it is now.. They've done a great job and you can't ask for much more from them now. They have 4 parks and 2 water parks, all great, i feel that they may spoil a great effort by building another park.

Sam
 

MiklCraw4d

Member
AdLibSean said:
"Disney executives say original thrill rides, often costing more than $100 million, will be 'prudently built.' Other new attractions for Orlando include copies of rides from other parks."

Does this mean that Expedition: Everest might be the last of its kind at Disney parks or am I reading too much into that? Also...copies from other parks....sigh.....I suppose originality is a thing of the past.

I think the 'prudent' wording is just the typical tripe to soothe the nerves of investors who wish WDW could just rake in the cash without actually having to spend money on creating a unique experience. If the new park leadership goes along with their current course, I'm sure EE won't be the last E-ticket we see.

I don't worry as much about E-tickets as I do about C- and D-tickets. I believe that given the resources, WDI can still crank out the blockbuster attractions. What I'm concerned about is their inability to make nice, simple lower level rides anymore. They need to be able to make simple, quality dark rides that the whole family can enjoy. MGM and DAK need those just as much as they need more E-ticket rides.

As far as the clones go, I'm not really worried about that at WDW. They tend to flow more in the other direction, taking WDW rides and cloning them elsewhere (TZTOT and Buzz being the most recent and prominent offenders). When they come to WDW it just makes me sad that it's less reason I have to get excited about someday visiting other Disney parks.

Aside from DisneySea, they've pretty much tapped out the stuff they can bring from other parks. There's Indy, of course, and maybe something like Cinemagique from DSP. Otherwise it's just Fantasyland dark rides that WDW doesn't have and all of DisneySea.

AdLibSean said:
And don't even get me started on the Disnelyand franchise...I mean the growing amount of parks abroad- all carbon copies of existing parks. Regardless of the investment growth it might reap in the short-term, I don't feel good about this at all- just call it a hunch, but once you over-saturate a market, doesn't that kind of take away the specialness of it all? I dunno like I said, I could be taking this too far but personally, if they're gonna halt progress in the states, it needs to be done abroad as well before there's a "Disneyland" in every major large city of the world.

Amen
 

stitchcastle

Well-Known Member
Thrawn said:
This isn't actually fact of any kind. Its just like saying "The NHL may have played its last season. There are no current plans for another." Which is completely true. However, it shows zero proof of anything, and can change at any time. This doesn't make anything different.

Glad to see someone with some sense around here
 

Disneyfan1981

Active Member
Personally this news IS good. It means that the management will not try to stretch a budget and include a 5th park while trying to squeeze in upgrades to the current ones. Leave the 5th park on the drawing board for now, pump up the currents ones, bring the Monorail to all four parks and then once that is said and complete look to a 5th one. IMO :)
 

sabian

New Member
Ever notice how some of us, here, are alot like chicken little? Everytime there is a new announcement, many of us run around, screaming that the sky is falling? :lol:
 

sabian

New Member
Disneyfan1981 said:
Why? I'd like to be able to ride the Monorail through the WDW resort to all four parks. Is there are a reason why it shouldn't be extended past MK and Epcot?:veryconfu

Cost - Cost - Cost
 

jsfra209

Member
OMG, that article really saddned me! I always had the hopes that WDW would continue to expand, and that new parks would open. I hope that this is not the "final verdict".. No other parks can even come close to Disney ... Come on, Keep building!! Do it for my childrens, children!!!! :mad:
 

Empress Room

Active Member
To me, the most interesting line in the entire article is:


At Disney World, Weiss won't reveal what Disney has planned for its 47-square-mile compound.


This confirms that the article is nothing more than the authors' speculation and conjecture. The fact is, Disney historically and wisely keeps everything close to the vest concerning its future plans. This is a very smart move because, both financially and strategically, it keeps Disney's competitors and detractors off balance.

Remember, Disney bought all of that "47-square-mile compound" quite secretively, and denied all along that it had plans to build ANY theme parks, let alone the four current ones and any others that may exist in its secret vaults.

To me, Weiss was being shrewd and told the press and the public exactly nothing - a brilliant move. The article makes for some great spinning and opinions/guesses - four pages of threads from amateurs like us!
 

Computer Magic

Well-Known Member
Disneyfan1981 said:
Why? I'd like to be able to ride the Monorail through the WDW resort to all four parks. Is there are a reason why it shouldn't be extended past MK and Epcot?:veryconfu
ROI (Return on Investment). It's not popular for the Wall Street folks. But it would be nice.

If the monorail wasn't already there, it probably never would be there by today's wall street standards.
 

longfamily

New Member
I am happy to hear that there will not be a 5th park. Expansion of the current parks seems more viable in the long run.

I am hoping that the prices are not pushed down so low that anyone can go to Disney. No, I'm not an elitist, i just feel that other parks where tickets are not high, are covered with grafiti, gum, and trashy people who do not value the park because it was easy for them to go there. I would like to see Disney remain a place that people have to dream to go to. I also believe that if people continue to have the attitude that Disney is an upscale park, they will always try to vacation there
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
sabian said:
Ever notice how some of us, here, are alot like chicken little? Everytime there is a new announcement, many of us run around, screaming that the sky is falling? :lol:

Its a secret conspitacy to promote the new movie :lookaroun
 

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