Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[GoofGoof]

I do not understand why people do not get this. It isn't some grand conspiracy to screw UK guests out of pre-booking.

It doesn’t have to be a grand conspiracy theory to make people mad. The fact of the matter is anyone outside of the US or Canada cannot buy this product offered by Disney. Loyal customers cannot give their money to Disney for a product they want. Of course they are mad and of course they want to know why. I don’t understand why people don’t get that. It doesn’t impact me but if it did I’d be just as annoyed by it. Disney could solve a part of the problem by simply explaining the why and even more if they then say they are working on a fix.

 

[lentesta]

Otherwise how does any business sell to overseas customers? How do you handle me buying a subscription to TP? How does Steve handle people from different countries paying for a Premium Membership to this site? I have no idea if I can do either from the apps, but I can via the websites.

This is what I can’t understand about this situation.

If it is an issue with the app then why not just redirect international guests to the website to make the purchase?

Let's use Switzerland as an example.

I think there are a few reasons why Switzerland doesn't request taxes from me or Steve:

1. We're too small for Switzerland to know we exist
2. Even if they did, the cumulative transaction volume is likely to be close to $0, so there's not much to tax
3. We don't have offices, employees, or other assets in Switzerland (the locus/nexus thing I mentioned)
4. Knowing that we don't have assets in Switzerland, they'd likely need to argue all of this in a US court. Good luck with that.

As you can imagine, having employees in a country changes a lot.

Take my state example. One of the questions they asked was whether our employee was involved in the research, development, production, or sale of any of our products. For us, the answer was no.

But Disney has offices in Zurich, Switzerland. So it's reasonable for the Swiss to ask if any of those employees were involved in the research, development, production, or sale of anything that the guest was buying.

Even if Disney thought the answer was obviously no, the Swiss could reasonably ask to see all of the research papers to which the locals contributed. And then they'd ask to see documentation about how that research was used to produce products, software, and IP for the company.

If any of that ended up in something that generated revenue, the Swiss could reasonably argue that the Swiss economy contributed to that income, so taxes were due.

As I said, even if the outcome is that Disney ends up owing nothing, the amount of risk mitigation it would take to ensure Disney owes nothing probably costs more than they'd make in revenue from the sale of LL.

ETA: I don't know for sure that @wdwmagic owns no assets in Switzerland. There's always the chance he's converting this site's profits into Toblerone bars stashed in Credit Suisse vaults all over Geneva.

 

[Splash4eva]

Proved what point? What one person chooses to do does not mean everyone chooses to do the same.
I won’t visit WDW again unless I can buy the Multipass and book in advance.

And thats your choice but just like you told me what 1 person does may not mean everyone will do the same…

 

[Splash4eva]

It doesn’t have to be a grand conspiracy theory to make people mad. The fact of the matter is anyone outside of the US or Canada cannot buy this product offered by Disney. Loyal customers cannot give their money to Disney for a product they want. Of course they are mad and of course they want to know why. I don’t understand why people don’t get that. It doesn’t impact me but if it did I’d be just as annoyed by it. Disney could solve a part of the problem by simply explaining the why and even more if they then say they are working on a fix.

Why does Disney need to explain anything and potentially tick off governments and tax laws by pinning the blame on them…. A little research done by a fan site pretty much explained what is going on or at least some reasoning why its happening… we saw what happened in Anaheim and Florida when they got involved with interfering with Govt policies….

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

Why does Disney need to explain anything and potentially tick off governments and tax laws by pinning the blame on them…. A little research done by a fan site pretty much explained what is going on or at least some reasoning why its happening… we saw what happened in Anaheim and Florida when they got involved with interfering with Govt policies….

When international guests can already book and pay for vacations and components for that vacation from home, could pre purchase Genie+ when that was a feature Disney offered, and could book FP+ from home when it existed, I think it’s more than fair to expect something out of Disney beyond ‘you can book when you arrive’. Historically international guests have not been left out of offerings like this.

These aren’t a tiny minority of guests who just happen to be finding Disney. WDW has a booking arm for certain groups of international guests complete with separate incentives to encourage them to visit. They’re actively courting them. I think they’re owed a proper response, even if that’s a more firmly telling those guests this is not changing, allowing them to tweak plans as needed.

 

[GoofGoof]

Why does Disney need to explain anything and potentially tick off governments and tax laws by pinning the blame on them…. A little research done by a fan site pretty much explained what is going on or at least some reasoning why its happening… we saw what happened in Anaheim and Florida when they got involved with interfering with Govt policies….

Why explain anything? They are alienating a group of loyal customers. Simple reason. I‘m not sure what you mean when you say a fan site explained what is going on. I’ve seen some good theories here but nothing definitive. If the reason is related to privacy law then just say that. If the reason is related to sales tax then again, just say that. How is that interfering with gov‘t policies? Even better, figure out a work around and offer it to your customers.

 

[osian]

ETA: I don't know for sure that @wdwmagic owns no assets in Switzerland. There's always the chance he's converting this site's profits into Toblerone bars stashed in Credit Suisse vaults all over Geneva.

 

[Splash4eva]

When international guests can already book and pay for vacations and components for that vacation from home, could pre purchase Genie+ when that was a feature Disney offered, and could book FP+ from home when it existed, I think it’s more than fair to expect something out of Disney beyond ‘you can book when you arrive’. Historically international guests have not been left out of offerings like this.

These aren’t a tiny minority of guests who just happen to be finding Disney. WDW has a booking arm for certain groups of international guests complete with separate incentives to encourage them to visit. They’re actively courting them. I think they’re owed a proper response, even if that’s a more firmly telling those guests this is not changing, allowing them to tweak plans as needed.

Well they have told them
They cant book them ahead of time. UK guests just dont want to accept that. It stinks i feel for them but not sure what anyone else feels Disney owes them…

 

[Splash4eva]

Why explain anything? They are alienating a group of loyal customers. Simple reason. I‘m not sure what you mean when you say a fan site explained what is going on. I’ve seen some good theories here but nothing definitive. If the reason is related to privacy law then just say that. If the reason is related to sales tax then again, just say that. How is that interfering with gov‘t policies? Even better, figure out a work around and offer it to your customers.

They are not alienating anyone. They just cant book the same way a US guest can book so lets be clear on that…

 

[C33Mom]

Let's use Switzerland as an example.

I think there are a few reasons why Switzerland doesn't request taxes from me or Steve:

1. We're too small for Switzerland to know we exist
2. Even if they did, the cumulative transaction volume is likely to be close to $0, so there's not much to tax
3. We don't have offices, employees, or other assets in Switzerland (the locus/nexus thing I mentioned)
4. Knowing that we don't have assets in Switzerland, they'd likely need to argue all of this in a US court. Good luck with that.

As you can imagine, having employees in a country changes a lot.

Take my state example. One of the questions they asked was whether our employee was involved in the research, development, production, or sale of any of our products. For us, the answer was no.

But Disney has offices in Zurich, Switzerland. So it's reasonable for the Swiss to ask if any of those employees were involved in the research, development, production, or sale of anything that the guest was buying.

Even if Disney thought the answer was obviously no, the Swiss could reasonably ask to see all of the research papers to which the locals contributed. And then they'd ask to see documentation about how that research was used to produce products, software, and IP for the company.

If any of that ended up in something that generated revenue, the Swiss could reasonably argue that the Swiss economy contributed to that income, so taxes were due.

As I said, even if the outcome is that Disney ends up owing nothing, the amount of risk mitigation it would take to ensure Disney owes nothing probably costs more than they'd make in revenue from the sale of LL.

ETA: I don't know for sure that @wdwmagic owns no assets in Switzerland. There's always the chance he's converting this site's profits into Toblerone bars stashed in Credit Suisse vaults all over Geneva.

Len, have you heard anything about whether LLMP (or ILL) need to used in the park where APs have reservations or if it can be any park? Also when (if?) you may be able to modify advance selections into Tier 1 rides on day of.

 

[GoofGoof]

They are not alienating anyone. They just cant book the same way a US guest can book so lets be clear on that…

The main point of the change and the new system is to allow people to book reservations in advance….up to 7 days. So it’s not just that you can’t book the same way, you potentially lose the biggest benefit of the system. So Yeah, it’s alienating guests who live outside the US/Canada and stay on property but want to be able to book from home 7 days in advance like everyone else can.

 

[Splash4eva]

The main point of the change and the new system is to allow people to book reservations in advance….up to 7 days. So it’s not just that you can’t book the same way, you potentially lose the biggest benefit of the system. So Yeah, it’s alienating guests who live outside the US/Canada and stay on property but want to be able to book from home 7 days in advance like everyone else can.

I guess we have differently definitions of alienating… i am hard in Disney for plenty this is not one of them. So we can all agree to disagree. Happy Friday!

 

[lentesta]

Len, have you heard anything about whether LLMP (or ILL) need to used in the park where APs have reservations or if it can be any park? Also when (if?) you may be able to modify advance selections into Tier 1 rides on day of.

I have not but I’ll ask.

 

[Mark Dunne]

To be fair, you're not really paying "full price." The UK deals are screaming good compared to what the ticket & hotel deals for Americans.

I wouldn’t say it was a screaming good deal, it’s more likely that we would spend on GP and ILL,s , prob works out roughly $8-9k once you convert P TO D, over the last few years it’s shot up, I’d agree with a few years ago for sure, so we pay say for 2 adults $1500 for say 10 nights park tickets only , but I hear that you guys can get for as little as $30 a day after say 5 day stay,and remember even from us there making a killing. And we spend a lot on merch as can only come over if we can afford it, it’s expensive for everyone to be honest, I think we can all Agree on that,

 

[nickys]

ETA: I don't know for sure that @wdwmagic owns no assets in Switzerland. There's always the chance he's converting this site's profits into Toblerone bars stashed in Credit Suisse vaults all over Geneva.

 

[Mark Dunne]

To be fair, you're not really paying "full price." The UK deals are screaming good compared to what the ticket & hotel deals for American

They are not alienating anyone. They just cant book the same way a US guest can book so lets be clear on that…

Let’s be clear on something else then, if WDW has no international guests, the parks would struggle , Disneyland no, but WDW definitely , its whole design is built around a world wide audience , Americans alone don’t spend enough to keep the whole show running, and Disney shareholders know this, that’s why they offer the likes of me a so called deal , but it’s still darn expensive. So yes this is alienating guests, and I’m sure Disney will change this for the millions from around the world that stay and visit at WDW, you’ve heard this yourself, when Disney leaders have almost openly said, it’s not the American family that spends the money, it’s outside , it’s the international guest that spends big, it’s like anything. Say you fly over , go to London, your more likely to spend more than I am, simply because I’d be say happy to eat at a snack sandwich eatery ,but you’ll want the whole London experience , I’m sure you’d be offered vouchers before you come over , and believe me, they should look after you , after all the UK economy doesn’t want to rely totally on me, they want you as a guest to really spend and spend big. It’s just got to be fair , that’s all people are saying

 

[Ayla]

I wouldn’t say it was a screaming good deal, it’s more likely that we would spend on GP and ILL,s , prob works out roughly $8-9k once you convert P TO D, over the last few years it’s shot up, I’d agree with a few years ago for sure, so we pay say for 2 adults $1500 for say 10 nights park tickets only , but I hear that you guys can get for as little as $30 a day after say 5 day stay,and remember even from us there making a killing. And we spend a lot on merch as can only come over if we can afford it, it’s expensive for everyone to be honest, I think we can all Agree on that,

You heard wrong. This idea that UK guests are the ones keeping WDW afloat is absurd.

For context, a current 6 day adult ticket starting on a Saturday in late July is $684, one park per day, and no add-ons.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Let’s be clear on something else then, if WDW has no international guests, them parks are closing ! Period

Lol, no. Don’t get me wrong, I hope they fix this, I really do. But Disney is likely calculating that this isn’t actually going to turn off a ton of international tourism. I think they may be right. Most international tourists are not like you. They’re first time visitors. They may not even know that multipass exists. In any event the idea that the parks would all close without international guests is laughable and belied by 50 years of history including eras with much lower international travel than today.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

but I hear that you guys can get for as little as $30 a day after say 5 day stay,

You heard wrong.

prob works out roughly $8-9k

For a two week on-site trip? That’s a screaming deal compared to what Americans would be paying for a 2 week onsite trip. An American can’t even purchase a ticket longer than 10 days. That price-range is less than one week for an American on-site trip at a deluxe (with discounts!)

 

[Splash4eva]

Let’s be clear on something else then, if WDW has no international guests, them parks are closing ! Period, Disneyland no, but WDW definitely , its whole design is built around a world wide audience , Americans alone don’t spend enough to keep the whole show running, and Disney shareholders know this, that’s why they offer the likes of me a so called deal , but it’s still darn expensive. So yes this is alienating guests, and I’m sure Disney will change this for the millions from around the world that stay and visit at WDW, you’ve heard this yourself, when Disney leaders have almost openly said, it’s not the American family that spends the money, it’s outside , it’s the international guest that spends big, it’s like anything. Say you fly over , go to London, your more likely to spend more than I am, simply because I’d be say happy to eat at a snack sandwich eatery ,but you’ll want the whole London experience , I’m sure you’d be offered vouchers before you come over , and believe me, they should look after you , after all the UK economy doesn’t want to rely totally on me, they want you as a guest to really spend and spend big. It’s just got to be fair , that’s all people are saying

Word on Wall St is they are going go be filing bankruptcy over this …. I truly hope you do not believe what you said about parks closing.