Disney fires IT workers and replaces them with foreign workers

[englanddg]

First of all, I have a degree in Math - it was required for my certification to teach math in grades 7 - 12. For that major, I also needed 2 semesters of chem and 2 of Physics (I have significantly more than that, but that was my own choosing), along with various education courses. My hsband is also a retired math teacher with similar qualifications. I too learned on a slide rule, although it never replaced my computation abilities. In my years of teaching I saw kids of many "ability levels" and I suffered through teaching "new math" and several variations of that throughout my career. Most of my career was spent teaching middle school, which I see as the last hope to get some of these kids on track for upper level math classes.

The biggest issue I saw time and time again was lack of basic skills, which should have been learned in elementary grades. Somewhere, sometime, it became out of fashion to teach basic arithmetic skills and number sense, and instead kids were adept at pushing calculator buttons, but had no real concept of what they were doing. In my last few years teaching at a private school, I had more leeway in teaching basics first, then on to more complex thinking skills, and by the time they left for high school, not only were they more prepared and more confident, but the whole process made sense to them. But not every teacher has that luxury of time and small classes, and public school programs now have so much required nonsense that there's little time for anything but preparing for standardized tests.

I agree with your analysis. Extremely interesting to hear how you broke it down. I think a lot of people sense the same, but don't know how to articulate it as well as you did.

The basics are so important, but like that "Salley method" I get the general feeling that they want to make kids "excited" about the basics...

Well, yaknow, sometimes learning the basics isn't fun and exciting. What is exciting is when you start to be able to APPLY those basics.

When I first had to learn about IRQs and dip switch settings and the like, just to get my CD-ROM working (as a 10 or 11 year old whose mother refused to install it for me after I got it for Christmas and instead handed me the instruction manual, the MSDOS command guide, and Peter Norton's Inside the PC and said "you've got all Christmas Break...you want it to work...figure it out".

But, when I finally did...well, after that I wasn't just fond of technology as a distraction, I was fond of the details and it founded a lifelong obsession.

 

[ford91exploder]

Biggest problem is 'Education' majors are in the bottom quintile of college aptitude and achievement and the capture of the profession by public sector unions just makes the problem worse.

So now the teaching profession is geared to churning out low skill instructors who have been fed 'gut' courses in college.

In the past teachers needed subject matter mastery, now all they need is a Ed degree to teach any course which are dumbed down because it's assumed the instructor has no mastery of the subject matter.

Example we had some students over at a friends house (most of us have advanced degrees in math and engineering) one girl who was getting a Masters in Education and wanted to become a math teacher, She was talking about how the 'Process' of mathematics was FAR more important than getting the correct answer, She did not understand why she got a bunch of cold stares from our little group.

To break the silence someone said 'The ONLY thing in mathematics is getting the CORRECT answer to an equation', This overeducated idiot answers why is that?. This girl wants to TEACH mathematics!!!!!!

 

[Nemo14]

This is what she was taught to do.

I've seen that, and it might be OK for some kids, but it shouldn't be required of a child who already knows long division.

We used to drive to FL to visit family every summer. One of our car games involved memorizing (horrors) various math facts. The summer before my daughter entered 2nd grade she learned all her times tables up to 12's and was very proud of herself for learning them. By the end of second grade she was so frustrate by having to use manipulatives for every computation that she really had to stop and think about every fact. It took us the following summer to undo the damage done.

 

[Nemo14]

Biggest problem is 'Education' majors are in the bottom quintile of college aptitude and achievement and the capture of the profession by public sector unions just makes the problem worse.

So now the teaching profession is geared to churning out low skill instructors who have been fed 'gut' courses in college.

In the past teachers needed subject matter mastery, now all they need is a Ed degree to teach any course which are dumbed down because it's assumed the instructor has no mastery of the subject matter.

Example we had some students over at a friends house (most of us have advanced degrees in math and engineering) one girl who was getting a Masters in Education and wanted to become a math teacher, She was talking about how the 'Process' of mathematics was FAR more important than getting the correct answer, She did not understand why she got a bunch of cold stares from our little group.

To break the silence someone said 'The ONLY thing in mathematics is getting the CORRECT answer to an equation', This overeducated idiot answers why is that?. This girl wants to TEACH mathematics!!!!!!

That's a theme of Common Core - you can have the entirely wrong answer, but if you can explain your answer than it's OK. Personally I don't want a surgeon operating on me who only knows the process...

 

[englanddg]

I've seen that, and it might be OK for some kids, but it shouldn't be required of a child who already knows long division.

We used to drive to FL to visit family every summer. One of our car games involved memorizing (horrors) various math facts. The summer before my daughter entered 2nd grade she learned all her times tables up to 12's and was very proud of herself for learning them. By the end of second grade she was so frustrate by having to use manipulatives for every computation that she really had to stop and think about every fact. It took us the following summer to undo the damage done.

It took me on facetime and her step-father about 45 minutes to show her long division (she was still dealing with rather simple problems, single and double digits, not getting into more complex ones...though, the process carries, so it's not really "complex", it's just more intimidating.)

Anyhow, about 30 mins in her eyes clicked and she said "wait, that's it?" Off to her room and she finished her homework.

I didn't proof it, but her mother told me she got a few of them wrong, and her step-father walked her through where her missteps had been.

She was proud of her "click"...you know, we all know it...when you "get" something that's foreign, that adrenaline rush.

Then when she failed her assignment...man...lets just say there were three very upset adults.

So, because the Salley Method confused her, WE had to learn it to teach her as the school (not blaming the teacher per se) didn't have enough class or after class time to really get it to sink in.

Now that she's past that phase, we plan to tell her to forget it and stick with long division.

Part of the issue though, and one I know personally and well, is that a few years of rough grades on the transcript can really mess up later life (as in late teens early 20s) opportunities. So, parents are stuck in a "play ball" scenario with some of these things.

 

[englanddg]

That's a theme of Common Core - you can have the entirely wrong answer, but if you can explain your answer than it's OK. Personally I don't want a surgeon operating on me who only knows the process...

But he'll give you a participation ribbon when he's done!

 

[englanddg]

That's a theme of Common Core - you can have the entirely wrong answer, but if you can explain your answer than it's OK. Personally I don't want a surgeon operating on me who only knows the process...

What happened to "Well, you got the answer wrong, but you were headed in a good direction. Lets review your logic and see where you went off course."?

 

[LAKid53]

First of all, I have a degree in Math - it was required for my certification to teach math in grades 7 - 12. For that major, I also needed 2 semesters of chem and 2 of Physics (I have significantly more than that, but that was my own choosing), along with various education courses. My hsband is also a retired math teacher with similar qualifications. I too learned on a slide rule, although it never replaced my computation abilities. In my years of teaching I saw kids of many "ability levels" and I suffered through teaching "new math" and several variations of that throughout my career. Most of my career was spent teaching middle school, which I see as the last hope to get some of these kids on track for upper level math classes.

The biggest issue I saw time and time again was lack of basic skills, which should have been learned in elementary grades. Somewhere, sometime, it became out of fashion to teach basic arithmetic skills and number sense, and instead kids were adept at pushing calculator buttons, but had no real concept of what they were doing. In my last few years teaching at a private school, I had more leeway in teaching basics first, then on to more complex thinking skills, and by the time they left for high school, not only were they more prepared and more confident, but the whole process made sense to them. But not every teacher has that luxury of time and small classes, and public school programs now have so much required nonsense that there's little time for anything but preparing for standardized tests.

The lack of basic math skills is why colleges have had to increase the number of remedial math courses. I took Algebra 101 went I went back for a 2nd degree. Why? Because it was over 15 years since I had a math class of any sort and my program required more than Freshman math, so I wanted to brush up (I had CLEPPED freshman math). I was shocked at the skill level of high school graduates. This is basic algebra. I slept through the class (after lunch) and got 105 on each test. Tests were given at the testing center and we could take it as many times as possible, but if you took it just once, you got an extra 5 points. And you had to do everything without the use of a calculator. Yes, multiply and divide. And since I grew up when we were still teaching basic math skills, the tests were a cake walk for me. And I finished them quickly. My professor (yes, I had a full professor teaching the class) thought I was a math genius. I love math and I'm good, but not a genius (that was my older brother who had a Masters in Pure Mathematics).

You must not live in the state I do. A math teacher needs a degree in Education to teach in public schools in my state. Someone with a degree in Math couldn't get a teaching license without some special exemption - which was done several years ago due to the shortage of math teachers. And the teachers' union actually said - with a straight face - that these kids weren't qualified to teach math.

Don't get me started about standardized tests......

 

[Nemo14]

I was being sarcastic about the experience part, just to be sure you didn't misread the joke I was trying to make. Not sure if you listed your credentials because you misread it and thought I was questioning them. I wasn't, it was a joke. <grin>

I knew that - just wanted to point out that to get my certification, I had to major in math. For elementary cerification, the major was (and I believe still is) education, with an academic minor. I've tutored elementary ed majors who had frighteningly poor math skills or who "hated " math, and I've seen what kind of students they produce.

 

[Nemo14]

What happened to "Well, you got the answer wrong, but you were headed in a good direction. Lets review your logic and see where you went off course."?

I can understand partial credit - it's calling it OK to be wrong that's, well, wrong.

 

[Nubs70]

Absolutely agree on the fundamentals. Common Core math is focused on the visualization of simple math functions. If one relies on the visualization of the simple things, how in the world are the going to comprehend higher math. If you have to visualize the simple math that happens inside a Bernoulli equation, you are going to be so tied up in your underwear you will cease to function.

 

[LAKid53]

This is what she was taught to do.

Good lord, what have we done....no wonder our kids are confused and hate math.

Let's see, 873/5. 5 goes into 8 1 time, leaving 3; 5 goes into 37 7 times, leaving 2; 5 goes into 23 4 times leaving 3. So 873 divided by 5 is 174.6. That's how I learned long division.

 

[ford91exploder]

The lack of basic math skills is why colleges have had to increase the number of remedial math courses. I took Algebra 101 went I went back for a 2nd degree. Why? Because it was over 15 years since I had a math class of any sort and my program required more than Freshman math, so I wanted to brush up (I had CLEPPED freshman math). I was shocked at the skill level of high school graduates. This is basic algebra. I slept through the class (after lunch) and got 105 on each test. Tests were given at the testing center and we could take it as many times as possible, but if you took it just once, you got an extra 5 points. And you had to do everything without the use of a calculator. Yes, multiply and divide. And since I grew up when we were still teaching basic math skills, the tests were a cake walk for me. And I finished them quickly. My professor (yes, I had a full professor teaching the class) thought I was a math genius. I love math and I'm good, but not a genius (that was my older brother who had a Masters in Pure Mathematics).

You must not live in the state I do. A math teacher needs a degree in Education to teach in public schools in my state. Someone with a degree in Math couldn't get a teaching license without some special exemption - which was done several years ago due to the shortage of math teachers. And the teachers' union actually said - with a straight face - that these kids weren't qualified to teach math.

Don't get me started about standardized tests......

Same in my state, A full professor of mathematics is 'unqualified' to teach mathematics unless they have a degree in 'Education' because of the unions influence, Public sector unions need to go away - they have civil service protections already.

 

[ford91exploder]

Absolutely agree on the fundamentals. Common Core math is focused on the visualization of simple math functions. If one relies on the visualization of the simple things, how in the world are the going to comprehend higher math. If you have to visualize the simple math that happens inside a Bernoulli equation, you are going to be so tied up in your underwear you will cease to function.

Scarily I know people who CAN visualize higher mathematics!!!

 

[Nemo14]

The lack of basic math skills is why colleges have had to increase the number of remedial math courses. I took Algebra 101 went I went back for a 2nd degree. Why? Because it was over 15 years since I had a math class of any sort and my program required more than Freshman math, so I wanted to brush up (I had CLEPPED freshman math). I was shocked at the skill level of high school graduates. This is basic algebra. I slept through the class (after lunch) and got 105 on each test. Tests were given at the testing center and we could take it as many times as possible, but if you took it just once, you got an extra 5 points. And you had to do everything without the use of a calculator. Yes, multiply and divide. And since I grew up when we were still teaching basic math skills, the tests were a cake walk for me. And I finished them quickly. My professor (yes, I had a full professor teaching the class) thought I was a math genius. I love math and I'm good, but not a genius (that was my older brother who had a Masters in Pure Mathematics).

You must not live in the state I do. A math teacher needs a degree in Education to teach in public schools in my state. Someone with a degree in Math couldn't get a teaching license without some special exemption - which was done several years ago due to the shortage of math teachers. And the teachers' union actually said - with a straight face - that these kids weren't qualified to teach math.

Don't get me started about standardized tests......

I'm pretty sure that our state still requires a major in math to teach Secondary ed. Elementary ed is a whole different story.

The special exemption thing is true here too. The best teacher my kids had, by far, in high school had emergency certification to teach history. He held the kids to such high standards not only in history but just in everyday skills. He insisted on proper grammar and spelling, and made them proud of what they wrote, rather than just doing the bare minimum. And the kids loved him for it!

 

[Nubs70]

The lack of basic math skills is why colleges have had to increase the number of remedial math courses. I took Algebra 101 went I went back for a 2nd degree. Why? Because it was over 15 years since I had a math class of any sort and my program required more than Freshman math, so I wanted to brush up (I had CLEPPED freshman math). I was shocked at the skill level of high school graduates. This is basic algebra. I slept through the class (after lunch) and got 105 on each test. Tests were given at the testing center and we could take it as many times as possible, but if you took it just once, you got an extra 5 points. And you had to do everything without the use of a calculator. Yes, multiply and divide. And since I grew up when we were still teaching basic math skills, the tests were a cake walk for me. And I finished them quickly. My professor (yes, I had a full professor teaching the class) thought I was a math genius. I love math and I'm good, but not a genius (that was my older brother who had a Masters in Pure Mathematics).

You must not live in the state I do. A math teacher needs a degree in Education to teach in public schools in my state. Someone with a degree in Math couldn't get a teaching license without some special exemption - which was done several years ago due to the shortage of math teachers. And the teachers' union actually said - with a straight face - that these kids weren't qualified to teach math.

Don't get me started about standardized tests......

I had a very similar experience. I had trouble with Calc I so decided to go back to where things got tough in highschool. What a waste of time, if I went to class I slept. Took the test, 100% each test plus 5% for doing it in one shot.

 

[englanddg]

I knew that - just wanted to point out that to get my certification, I had to major in math. For elementary cerification, the major was (and I believe still is) education, with an academic minor. I've tutored elementary ed majors who had frighteningly poor math skills or who "hated " math, and I've seen what kind of students they produce.

I just checked. All that is required in my state (GA) for even High School specialized disciplines like STEM courses...is a bachelor's (major independent) and the GACE test for your subject.

I not only checked the state certification requirements database, but I also checked job listings in the state for things like "Math Teacher 9-12".

 

[LAKid53]

I knew that - just wanted to point out that to get my certification, I had to major in math. For elementary cerification, the major was (and I believe still is) education, with an academic minor. I've tutored elementary ed majors who had frighteningly poor math skills or who "hated " math, and I've seen what kind of students they produce.

And you've made my point. That those years when kids are just learning critical skills, like math, reading, writing, are being taught by teachers who have little knowledge of the subject they are teaching. But, by god, they've had plenty of classes in theory. I used to say, give me someone with a degree in English. Someone who can think critically and communicate. I can teach them basic accounting.

 

[englanddg]

And, note this doozy. From their site.

"It is no longer enough to just have years of experience for teaching. After No Child Left Behind and other academic quantification measures, the careers of teachers increasingly depend on their results in the classroom. A Masters in Teaching will give you more educational theory and classroom skills, as well as more hands-on student teaching experience with a mentor. After a Masters program, you will be able to achieve better results in the classroom and have more job security and higher pay."

Yeah, so a Masters in Education, if you are teaching Math courses, is better than a Masters in...I dunno...applied mathematics? Pfft.

The state even gives out scholarship incentives to get a Masters in Education.

Not that there's anything wrong with it...but...for STEM...yeah, well, I'd rather learn from Hawkings than someone who got a bachelor's degree in basket weaving, crammed and passed the GACE test, and then got a masters in education. (ok, I am being facetious now...but again not much)

 

[Nubs70]

Scarily I know people who CAN visualize higher mathematics!!!

I was referring to visualization of the simple math when working through an equation. Using the common core method, it will take you an hour just to finish unit conversions. I do have ability to visualize multidimensional equations/relationships but sadly have not found a place to apply it.