Disney fires IT workers and replaces them with foreign workers

[LAKid53]

Perhaps the representation at your school was because most of those students are getting a full ride from their government as opposed to american students who need to take out 100K+ in loans and are shying away from STEM careers because american business would rather hire H1B's at poverty wages.

In a past life I was an academic officer at a research university and I saw the same thing, Kids are not going to take up fields where they saw their parents and parents friends being laid off from and replaced with foreign workers.

True. At my institution, foreign students had to demonstrate the ability to pay tuition. However, we had lots of private funding opportunities (scholarships) available and the administration was throwing money into STEM programs to reduce the financial aid burden which should have increased U.S. citizen student population in the college.

 

[englanddg]

Agree with your points,

But let's face it the REALLY good coders generally are Aspie's and it's REALLY rare to have someone with good soft skills and hardcore engineering chops. I'm one of those guys I'm as comfortable talking to C level people as I am talking to developers but there are VERY few of us in the industry.

Generally College gives you the theoretical background but I almost NEVER hire straight out of college unless the applicant did some real work like interning with the college Networking/IT group so they get operational discipline as well as theory.

The practical skills come with internship and/or first job. When I was a network architect with a major university the first 6 months my boss had me working with the cable crews so I would THOROUGHLY understand the physical plant (1,900 miles of fiber etc). This of course was also a filter as those who thought they were 'too important' for physical work would quickly go elsewhere.

But it's also rooted in how the Japanese train industrial engineers, If you are an engineer for a japanese company after college no matter WHAT degree you hold you will be on the assembly line for the companies products for at least a year. (holds true for management trainees as well).

But, part of the issue is...that's not what a lot of those CIS kids have been sold by the schools.

They think they'll walk out completely ready to talking anything because they have their lambskin, and then get disgruntled when they are not taken and mentored, but rather to earn their stripes.

They demand too much money for what is now becoming a much easier environment to manage, etc...

For example, there was a time (which I'm sure you are perfectly aware of) when understanding even desktop machines, much less mainframes and terminal systems, and even smaller network topologies (ahem...token ring) took a certain level of deep understanding of what is going on under the "hood", so to speak, than in today's world.

It really doesn't take much skill to work a helpdesk. Understanding what is going on is great, but a lot of it is also just raw experience. But, what you learn there can help you later when you plan infrastructure and systems so that you plan them in a way that is easy and light to support, administratively minimal (both paperwork and systems), secure yet flexible, and...basically, is primed, in a cost effective manner to support the companies business, not support the ego of the IT dept.

It sounds like I'm railing against IT, I'm not...but, this sort of thing is not uncommon either. Especially when you end up with IT departments that self compartmentalize and don't even play well together. They each control their own little fiefdoms.

Not saying that's what the culture was like at Disney (though it is extremely common in larger government and corporate environments), and I CERTAINLY don't like the outsourcing / H1B trend, because what we ARE doing is knowledge transfer. And, I don't mean "press this button every hour to keep the FP+ system up"...I mean, "here's how we make this stuff really work"...then H1B goes home, and starts making their own version after stealing, essentially, the efficiencies and IP of the individual they replaced as well as the company operations as a whole.

 

[englanddg]

Can I chime in here as a former math teacher?

I dunno...you might not have enough experience to know what you are talking about!

 

[englanddg]

Somehow I think someone in your son's school district has misinterpreted Common Core. My understanding of Common Core and what it should be? Insuring that every graduate of a U.S. High School has the same basic proficiency in English (reading/writing and comprehension), math, science (biology, chemistry, physics), history and the arts. In other words, what I was taught (minus the occasional bad teacher). I can understand when learning a new math skill to show all lines of calculation. But once that skill is mastered, then give the student a break. Which I told the basketball coach teaching our Trig class in high school several times. Of course, I had a circular slide rule my dad gave me and taught me to use to back up my solutions (this was in early 1970s). My poor trig instructor didn't have a clue what I was doing with this contraption and thought I was getting away with something until I informed him my dad was an engineer and they used slide rules all the time - I still have it somewhere in my trunk of school stuff.

Your son's problem demonstrates my issue. That we have unqualified individuals teaching our children math and science (and don't get me started about the textbooks - I'm sure as a chemical engineer you would agree about the quality of science textbooks). A degree in education from a College of Education cannot substitute for a BS in math. Or biology. Or chemistry. Or physics. Or English, as my daughter's 1st grade teacher clearly demonstrated. Why on earth would a school allow someone with such poor grammar skills to teach 1st graders, who are just learning to read and write? Finally, only after years of parents complaining, was she reassigned. Her license should have been yanked.

That and what's most important, especially with seemingly dry subjects (and lets face it STEM and proper English (not reading time, but grammar and construction) is EXTREMELY dry. So, you need to have someone knowledgable and passionate about the topic teaching it. That person will produce better average results than someone who stumbles through the "teachers guide" throughout the year basically serving as an instructor instead of a teacher.

 

[Nubs70]

There's an 8 step way?

I have a similar story. They taught my kid some crazy way to do division (Sally method or something), and it boggled my mind, her mother's and her step-fathers (he and I are both in IT, and he's almost finished with his Masters).

We showed her long division, and she took right to it, racing through her homework. Turned the homework in, marked wrong for "not using the proper method".

I mean, I understand what they are TRYING to teach, but I'm not sure that making simple things complicated before getting into the theories behind them are really that effective for most students.

Her grades dropped in math to a C second quarter because of this, but she managed to bring it back up to a B (the first B she'd gotten in 2 years) by the end of the year.

It was frustrating...and, it also carries a psychological negative impact that "math is hard" that scares children away. Children like to succeed and learn (and I don't just mean participation ribbons)...but overly complex methods that make for interesting talk for advanced students of math over drinks and dessert (Hey Sally, ever thought about trying division THIS way?) aren't necessarily "better" if they ignore these facts.

My son tried to explain what he was taught and I could not understand it. Finally I said screw it, this is how you do it. He explained to the teacher how I had taught him. The teacher said the method was correct but he had to do it the complicated way. My son then explained the simple method to his 8th grade tutor. The tutor said he couldn't help him because the 8th graders just started learning the simple method the day before.

This begs to ask why in the world are they teaching multiple methods??? Teach one and be done with it.

 

[LAKid53]

Yeah, but the pay is still better than taking out 75k in loans and getting a degree in 1600s literature and working at Starbucks. I'm being facetious...but only slightly.

That said, part of the issue is that a 4 year CIS degree really doesn't teach a lot of the cross set skills that are required for competent (i.e. not deep level) IT work. IT needs to be able to communicate and understand business and accounting in most organizations more than necessarily machine level code. And, it's getting more and more like that.

I'm not knocking it, but I can tell you I've seen a lot of people from decent universities with 4 year CIS degrees that can't run a network or perform basic helpdesk duties to save their lives...much less understand business processes well enough to automate them (which gains IT a lot of clout as they are now seen as a partner of the business rather than a money sump).

And, often, that's what businesses need.

I know it's far more complex than that, but...it is also part of the issue.

THIS!!!! As an accountant who had to work with IT people to create processes to make our jobs more automated (accountants use LOTS of data and generate lots of reports, like quarterly and annual financial reports, reports for auditors, etc.), I spent a lot of my time teaching some of the programmers how to correctly pull, analyze and report financial data. I had a minor in information systems and used to code. If our paranoid IS director had given me access to the system, I could have done some of the coding myself. Those coders who understood business processes? They didn't last long as they were snapped up by private companies and usually doubled their salaries......

 

[englanddg]

THIS!!!! As an accountant who had to work with IT people to create processes to make our jobs more automated (accountants use LOTS of data and generate lots of reports, like quarterly and annual financial reports, reports for auditors, etc.), I spent a lot of my time teaching some of the programmers how to correctly pull, analyze and report financial data. I had a minor in information systems and used to code. If our paranoid IS director had given me access to the system, I could have done some of the coding myself. Those coders who understood business processes? They didn't last long as they were snapped up by private companies and usually doubled their salaries......

How do you think I do the job I do now? <grin>

 

[LAKid53]

There's an 8 step way?

I have a similar story. They taught my kid some crazy way to do division (Sally method or something), and it boggled my mind, her mother's and her step-fathers (he and I are both in IT, and he's almost finished with his Masters).

We showed her long division, and she took right to it, racing through her homework. Turned the homework in, marked wrong for "not using the proper method".

I mean, I understand what they are TRYING to teach, but I'm not sure that making simple things complicated before getting into the theories behind them are really that effective for most students.

Her grades dropped in math to a C second quarter because of this, but she managed to bring it back up to a B (the first B she'd gotten in 2 years) by the end of the year.

It was frustrating...and, it also carries a psychological negative impact that "math is hard" that scares children away. Children like to succeed and learn (and I don't just mean participation ribbons)...but overly complex methods that make for interesting talk for advanced students of math over drinks and dessert (Hey Sally, ever thought about trying division THIS way?) aren't necessarily "better" if they ignore these facts.

Wait, LONG division is now a sin? What has our public education system come to? I can remember when calculators were forbidden because students would rely on them and not learn basic math skills, like addition/subtraction/multiplication/division. Am I THAT old fashioned?

 

[ford91exploder]

Somehow I think someone in your son's school district has misinterpreted Common Core. My understanding of Common Core and what it should be? Insuring that every graduate of a U.S. High School has the same basic proficiency in English (reading/writing and comprehension), math, science (biology, chemistry, physics), history and the arts. In other words, what I was taught (minus the occasional bad teacher). I can understand when learning a new math skill to show all lines of calculation. But once that skill is mastered, then give the student a break. Which I told the basketball coach teaching our Trig class in high school several times. Of course, I had a circular slide rule my dad gave me and taught me to use to back up my solutions (this was in early 1970s). My poor trig instructor didn't have a clue what I was doing with this contraption and thought I was getting away with something until I informed him my dad was an engineer and they used slide rules all the time - I still have it somewhere in my trunk of school stuff.

Your son's problem demonstrates my issue. That we have unqualified individuals teaching our children math and science (and don't get me started about the textbooks - I'm sure as a chemical engineer you would agree about the quality of science textbooks). A degree in education from a College of Education cannot substitute for a BS in math. Or biology. Or chemistry. Or physics. Or English, as my daughter's 1st grade teacher clearly demonstrated. Why on earth would a school allow someone with such poor grammar skills to teach 1st graders, who are just learning to read and write? Finally, only after years of parents complaining, was she reassigned. Her license should have been yanked.

Erm No,

The beard is that Common Core is setting a common level of proficiency which can be demonstrated. Like the GCE A and O levels in the UK, In reality it's been hijacked by various political groups to further their political goals and much of the so called curriculum is more political indoctrination and 'rightthink' than actual factual education.

This is why we have massive pushback against it at all levels because it went from a good idea where all students at a certain grade would have mastery of a common body of knowledge, To a system where students would be indoctrinated with the 'correct' attitudes and factual learning would be deemphasized hence the non-standard teaching of mathematics, language and history.

Unfortunately the average american eighth grader would not pass the high school entrance exams in Nigeria much less china under the 'standard' interpretation of common core.

Nor would they be able to pass the 8'th grade final from 1895

8th Grade Final Exam: Salina, Kansas - 1895

This is the eighth-grade final exam* from 1895 from Salina, Kansas. It was taken
from the original document on file at the Smoky Valley Genealogical Society
and Library in Salina, Kansas and reprinted by the Salina Journal.

Grammar (Time, one hour)
1. Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters.
2. Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no modifications.
3. Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
4. What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of do, lie, lay and run.
5. Define Case, Illustrate each Case.
6. What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of Punctuation.
7-10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.

Arithmetic (Time, 1.25 hours)
1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50cts. per bu, deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?
4. District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
5. Find cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $.20 per inch?
8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance around which is 640 rods?
10.Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.

U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes)
1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided.
2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.
3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
4. Show the territorial growth of the United States.
5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.
6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, and 1865?

Orthography (Time, one hour)
1. What is meant by the following: Alphabet, phonetic orthography, etymology, syllabication?
2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
3. What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u'.
5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e'. Name two exceptions under each rule.
6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: Bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, super.
8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: Card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
9. Use the following correctly in sentences, Cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
10.Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.

Geography (Time, one hour)
1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
4. Describe the mountains of N.A.
5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fermandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco.
6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
7. Name all the republics of Europe and give capital of each.
8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
10.Describe the movements of the earth. Give inclination of the earth.

The top of the test states > "EXAMINATION GRADUATION QUESTIONS OF SALINE COUNTY, KANSAS
April 13, 1895 J.W. Armstrong, County Superintendent.Examinations at Salina, New Cambria, Gypsum City, Assaria, Falun, Bavaria, and District No. 74 (in Glendale Twp.)"

 

[LAKid53]

Can I chime in here as a former math teacher?

Please.

 

[Nubs70]

Somehow I think someone in your son's school district has misinterpreted Common Core. My understanding of Common Core and what it should be? Insuring that every graduate of a U.S. High School has the same basic proficiency in English (reading/writing and comprehension), math, science (biology, chemistry, physics), history and the arts. In other words, what I was taught (minus the occasional bad teacher). I can understand when learning a new math skill to show all lines of calculation. But once that skill is mastered, then give the student a break. Which I told the basketball coach teaching our Trig class in high school several times. Of course, I had a circular slide rule my dad gave me and taught me to use to back up my solutions (this was in early 1970s). My poor trig instructor didn't have a clue what I was doing with this contraption and thought I was getting away with something until I informed him my dad was an engineer and they used slide rules all the time - I still have it somewhere in my trunk of school stuff.

Your son's problem demonstrates my issue. That we have unqualified individuals teaching our children math and science (and don't get me started about the textbooks - I'm sure as a chemical engineer you would agree about the quality of science textbooks). A degree in education from a College of Education cannot substitute for a BS in math. Or biology. Or chemistry. Or physics. Or English, as my daughter's 1st grade teacher clearly demonstrated. Why on earth would a school allow someone with such poor grammar skills to teach 1st graders, who are just learning to read and write? Finally, only after years of parents complaining, was she reassigned. Her license should have been yanked.

Common Core is specific manners and methods of teaching with the goal of a common basic proficiency. The specific method is the problem such as "New Math", YouTube that and it will blow your mind.

They are still using number lines in 4th grade. In my day, after grade 1, no more number lines.

 

[englanddg]

My son tried to explain what he was taught and I could not understand it. Finally I said screw it, this is how you do it. He explained to the teacher how I had taught him. The teacher said the method was correct but he had to do it the complicated way. My son then explained the simple method to his 8th grade tutor. The tutor said he couldn't help him because the 8th graders just started learning the simple method the day before.

This begs to ask why in the world are they teaching multiple methods??? Teach one and be done with it.

Again, making simple things complicated.

I'm sure some of it in some controlled studies has proven that it CAN, if PROPERLY TAUGHT, make an impact. But, lets face it, there really isn't enough focus class time, and parents end up doing a lot of the teaching. Why break tried and true methods.

The best classes I ever had (as in, ones I had to take more than once, because I went through a period where I failed Algebra twice, I failed Chemistry once) were because I had rather old school teachers who made us learn the basics first.

Chemistry, for example, I hated this lady until towards the end of the year when things really started clicking (and I was getting good grades and earning them) made the class, the first month of so of school, memorize the periodic table.

Now, were we allowed to use the one in the book for lookups? Sure. But, by forcing us to understand the framework...the "language" if you will of the world we were working in, later topics made far more sense.

I had a Civics teacher that made us memorize a world map.

I had an English teacher that made us diagram sentences, do weekly writings ranging from short story book reports to creative writing to analytical writing.

Algebra, the teacher that finally got the dam to burst in my head, was just passionate about it. She treated everything as a logic puzzle, not a dry "this is how you do this, now off to chapter 4" lecture. And, her passion was infectious (the whole class, which was summer school mind you, did extremely well, and continued to do well as I carried on to Algebra II with many of them in the normal school year and we found ourselves tutoring other students.)

Passion is key. Not just the cliche "passion for teaching"...but the passion for teaching and producing RESULTS...

And to be fair to teachers, I think often their hands are tied by bureaucrats who are less educated in the disciplines than they are.

 

[Nubs70]

Can I chime in here as a former math teacher?

Absolutely

 

[LAKid53]

Erm No,

The beard is that Common Core is setting a common level of proficiency which can be demonstrated. Like the GCE A and O levels in the UK, In reality it's been hijacked by various political groups to further their political goals and much of the so called curriculum is more political indoctrination and 'rightthink' than actual factual education.

This is why we have massive pushback against it at all levels because it went from a good idea where all students at a certain grade would have mastery of a common body of knowledge, To a system where students would be indoctrinated with the 'correct' attitudes and factual learning would be deemphasized hence the non-standard teaching of mathematics, language and history.

Unfortunately the average american eighth grader would not pass the high school entrance exams in Nigeria much less china under the 'standard' interpretation of common core.

Nor would they be able to pass the 8'th grade final from 1895

8th Grade Final Exam: Salina, Kansas - 1895

This is the eighth-grade final exam* from 1895 from Salina, Kansas. It was taken
from the original document on file at the Smoky Valley Genealogical Society
and Library in Salina, Kansas and reprinted by the Salina Journal.

Grammar (Time, one hour)
1. Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters.
2. Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no modifications.
3. Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
4. What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of do, lie, lay and run.
5. Define Case, Illustrate each Case.
6. What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of Punctuation.
7-10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.

Arithmetic (Time, 1.25 hours)
1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50cts. per bu, deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?
4. District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
5. Find cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $.20 per inch?
8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance around which is 640 rods?
10.Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.

U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes)
1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided.
2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.
3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
4. Show the territorial growth of the United States.
5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.
6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, and 1865?

Orthography (Time, one hour)
1. What is meant by the following: Alphabet, phonetic orthography, etymology, syllabication?
2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
3. What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u'.
5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e'. Name two exceptions under each rule.
6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: Bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, super.
8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: Card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
9. Use the following correctly in sentences, Cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
10.Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.

Geography (Time, one hour)
1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
4. Describe the mountains of N.A.
5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fermandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco.
6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
7. Name all the republics of Europe and give capital of each.
8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
10.Describe the movements of the earth. Give inclination of the earth.

The top of the test states > "EXAMINATION GRADUATION QUESTIONS OF SALINE COUNTY, KANSAS
April 13, 1895 J.W. Armstrong, County Superintendent.Examinations at Salina, New Cambria, Gypsum City, Assaria, Falun, Bavaria, and District No. 74 (in Glendale Twp.)"

I'm working on a Master's in History and would struggle to answer the question on the territorial growth of the U.S., since that's not my field of specialty.

And we derided those with an 8th grade education, like my grandmother. Unless you are getting a college degree in that particular subject, I doubt if many college graduates could pass this test. Me included.

 

[englanddg]

Wait, LONG division is now a sin? What has our public education system come to? I can remember when calculators were forbidden because students would rely on them and not learn basic math skills, like addition/subtraction/multiplication/division. Am I THAT old fashioned?

This is what she was taught to do.

 

[LAKid53]

Common Core is specific manners and methods of teaching with the goal of a common basic proficiency. The specific method is the problem such as "New Math", YouTube that and it will blow your mind.

They are still using number lines in 4th grade. In my day, after grade 1, no more number lines.

I had New Math in the 7 grade - learned about binary number systems (which I scratched my head back then, binary? Until I took programming courses - binary).

 

[Nemo14]

I dunno...you might not have enough experience to know what you are talking about!

First of all, I have a degree in Math - it was required for my certification to teach math in grades 7 - 12. For that major, I also needed 2 semesters of chem and 2 of Physics (I have significantly more than that, but that was my own choosing), along with various education courses. My hsband is also a retired math teacher with similar qualifications. I too learned on a slide rule, although it never replaced my computation abilities. In my years of teaching I saw kids of many "ability levels" and I suffered through teaching "new math" and several variations of that throughout my career. Most of my career was spent teaching middle school, which I see as the last hope to get some of these kids on track for upper level math classes.

The biggest issue I saw time and time again was lack of basic skills, which should have been learned in elementary grades. Somewhere, sometime, it became out of fashion to teach basic arithmetic skills and number sense, and instead kids were adept at pushing calculator buttons, but had no real concept of what they were doing. In my last few years teaching at a private school, I had more leeway in teaching basics first, then on to more complex thinking skills, and by the time they left for high school, not only were they more prepared and more confident, but the whole process made sense to them. But not every teacher has that luxury of time and small classes, and public school programs now have so much required nonsense that there's little time for anything but preparing for standardized tests.

 

[englanddg]

I'm working on a Master's in History and would struggle to answer the question on the territorial growth of the U.S., since that's not my field of specialty.

And we derided those with an 8th grade education, like my grandmother. Unless you are getting a college degree in that particular subject, I doubt if many college graduates could pass this test. Me included.

Well, I doubt they were breaking it down into every little detail (plus there has been a whole century and two decades of growth since that test question was written.)

I'm sure the correct answers would be something along the lines of the Louisiana Purchase, Mexican American War, and the like.

 

[englanddg]

First of all, I have a degree in Math - it was required for my certification to teach math in grades 7 - 12. For that major, I also needed 2 semesters of chem and 2 of Physics (I have significantly more than that, but that was my own choosing), along with various education courses. My hsband is also a retired math teacher with similar qualifications. I too learned on a slide rule, although it never replaced my computation abilities. In my years of teaching I saw kids of many "ability levels" and I suffered through teaching "new math" and several variations of that throughout my career. Most of my career was spent teaching middle school, which I see as the last hope to get some of these kids on track for upper level math classes.

The biggest issue I saw time and time again was lack of basic skills, which should have been learned in elementary grades. Somewhere, sometime, it became out of fashion to teach basic arithmetic skills and number sense, and instead kids were adept at pushing calculator buttons, but had no real concept of what they were doing. In my last few years teaching at a private school, I had more leeway in teaching basics first, then on to more complex thinking skills, and by the time they left for high school, not only were they more prepared and more confident, but the whole process made sense to them. But not every teacher has that luxury of time and small classes, and public school programs now have so much required nonsense that there's little time for anything but preparing for standardized tests.

I was being sarcastic about the experience part, just to be sure you didn't misread the joke I was trying to make. Not sure if you listed your credentials because you misread it and thought I was questioning them. I wasn't, it was a joke. <grin>

 

[LAKid53]

Again, making simple things complicated.

I'm sure some of it in some controlled studies has proven that it CAN, if PROPERLY TAUGHT, make an impact. But, lets face it, there really isn't enough focus class time, and parents end up doing a lot of the teaching. Why break tried and true methods.

The best classes I ever had (as in, ones I had to take more than once, because I went through a period where I failed Algebra twice, I failed Chemistry once) were because I had rather old school teachers who made us learn the basics first.

Chemistry, for example, I hated this lady until towards the end of the year when things really started clicking (and I was getting good grades and earning them) made the class, the first month of so of school, memorize the periodic table.

Now, were we allowed to use the one in the book for lookups? Sure. But, by forcing us to understand the framework...the "language" if you will of the world we were working in, later topics made far more sense.

I had a Civics teacher that made us memorize a world map.

I had an English teacher that made us diagram sentences, do weekly writings ranging from short story book reports to creative writing to analytical writing.

Algebra, the teacher that finally got the dam to burst in my head, was just passionate about it. She treated everything as a logic puzzle, not a dry "this is how you do this, now off to chapter 4" lecture. And, her passion was infectious (the whole class, which was summer school mind you, did extremely well, and continued to do well as I carried on to Algebra II with many of them in the normal school year and we found ourselves tutoring other students.)

Passion is key. Not just the cliche "passion for teaching"...but the passion for teaching and producing RESULTS...

And to be fair to teachers, I think often their hands are tied by bureaucrats who are less educated in the disciplines than they are.

Yeah, refusing to memorize the periodic table is why I didn't do as well in Chemistry (B) as I did in Biology and Physics (A).

My English teacher in the 7th grade made us diagram sentences. I cannot think of a better way to learn and understand grammar. I asked my daughter if her teachers taught her how to diagram sentences. She had no idea what I was talking about. So I took a piece of paper and tried to show her from memory.

I agree that teachers are burdened by things not related to teaching. It took a couple of sessions after class with my analytical geometry teacher before I got polar coordinates. She said that she could see the light bulb go off when I got it. Imagine a teacher having time like that now....