Disney faced with lawsuit in Mission: Space death

[ilovepluto23]

Please tell me this is a joke..... You want parents to take their kids to scientists to have them put through tests to see How much G's their child can take??? Are you going to take your child to get tested to see how many G's your kid can take??? Come on, be reasonable here...

I agree with this...

Again, agreed it isn't Disney fault or responsibility to know their guests health status.. However, I find it unfair that others on this board are bashing this family.. when they didn't even know the kid had the condition... 2 deaths is a lot for any ride that TRIGGERS a health condition... Well, 2 deaths in less that 2 years... and countless injuries, calls for medical assistance, etc... Sorry, but M:S has had way more than other rides have had in 20 years..

It is common sense that if you rode it once and got sick, yes, don't ride it again... It is common sense that if you have a medical condition and KNOW about it, es don't ride.. But if you are undiagnosed, and you and your doctor say you are in perfect health, and something happens to you after this ride, how can anyone say this person should have used common sense?? These arguments just don't make sense anymore...

First off, doctors are human. They're not always right. Things can be missed, and even if you have a full MRI done, things can be hidden behind shadows or other parts of your body.

Secondly, I said parents should be able to figure out that a 4-year-old...a very small child who's body is not well-developed yet...should not ride something with VERY strong G-Forces. It doesn't take a scientist, doctor, or anyone else who knows anything about those things to do a physical on a child. I find it to be common sense that you shouldn't let a little child go on a ride like that, no matter their height. I didn't mention scientists or doctors whatsoever in that comment.

 

[durangojim]

It is common sense that if you rode it once and got sick, yes, don't ride it again... It is common sense that if you have a medical condition and KNOW about it, es don't ride.. But if you are undiagnosed, and you and your doctor say you are in perfect health, and something happens to you after this ride, how can anyone say this person should have used common sense?? These arguments just don't make sense anymore...[/quote]

But by that argument, then no one should be held liable. The parents had questionable parenting skills by letting their 4 year old ride the ride. As a parent of a small child, I always go on a ride first by myself to see if it is appropriate for my child, we don't try something new that has a possibility of an adverse effect together. You may say that Disney says the ride is safe, which it is. As a physician, there are many risks everyone takes in their lives, and some cannot be forseen. I am allergic to penicillin and almost died when I was 4 because of anaphylactic shock. If I did die, should my parents have had the right to sue the pediatrician becuase he gave me a medicine that I was severly allergic to and killed me? I don't think so. Disney has warned people not to go on this ride not only if they have a health conditon, but if there is a possibility of a health condition.
There are many other instances in life that cause harm and death becuase poor choices were made in instances that are safe to 99.999% of people but one person is effected by it. As for hundreds of people going to the hospital or being treated at the ride itself, I'd like to find out how many of those people have choosen to go on teacups, my guess is not many, and if they did how many felt similar to their experience on MS. I'm just so darn tired of people not taking responsibility for themselves or their children.:zipit:

 

[ilovepluto23]

But by that argument, then no one should be held liable. The parents had questionable parenting skills by letting their 4 year old ride the ride. As a parent of a small child, I always go on a ride first by myself to see if it is appropriate for my child, we don't try something new that has a possibility of an adverse effect together. You may say that Disney says the ride is safe, which it is. As a physician, there are many risks everyone takes in their lives, and some cannot be forseen. I am allergic to penicillin and almost died when I was 4 because of anaphylactic shock. If I did die, should my parents have had the right to sue the pediatrician becuase he gave me a medicine that I was severly allergic to and killed me? I don't think so. Disney has warned people not to go on this ride not only if they have a health conditon, but if there is a possibility of a health condition.
There are many other instances in life that cause harm and death becuase poor choices were made in instances that are safe to 99.999% of people but one person is effected by it. As for hundreds of people going to the hospital or being treated at the ride itself, I'd like to find out how many of those people have choosen to go on teacups, my guess is not many, and if they did how many felt similar to their experience on MS. I'm just so darn tired of people not taking responsibility for themselves or their children.:zipit:

Thank you! Very well said!

 

[Glasgow]

I'm wondering, what are the maximum allowable forces that an amusement park ride is allowed to have? There must be some sort of regulatory organization for that sort of thing. If a ride is within that specification, surely there can be no liability provided sufficient warning is provided. Otherwise, parks could install rides that simiulate 9 or 10 Gs.

There must be loads of rides out there that generate the same sort of force (or more) that M:S does.

 

[Tim G]

I'm wondering, what are the maximum allowable forces that an amusement park ride is allowed to have? There must be some sort of regulatory organization for that sort of thing. If a ride is within that specification, surely there can be no liability provided sufficient warning is provided. Otherwise, parks could install rides that simiulate 9 or 10 Gs.

There must be loads of rides out there that generate the same sort of force (or more) that M:S does.

The medicine against puking in Mission Space would be... creating a ice cold enviroment in the pods...

One only need a bit of G's to get someone puking in a warm enviroment...

Back to topic...
Well...

Mr. ordinary, could handle 2 G's for about 30 to 40 secs...
I'm not talking about 2 or 3 secs of G-force in a roller coaster or so... but a constant g-force on men's body

3 G's 70% of the people will black out...

4 G's 100% will black out

Everything above 4 G's is for fighter pilots and astronauts...

There will be people who will not believe this... but it's true...

 

[Boardwalk Joe's]

I suggest you go back and read all these posts.. Several people here, not all, DO in fact attack this family.... So, in my opinion, yes, they are insensitive.. And There is nothing wrong with calling them out for what they are, insensitve M:S apologists...

I must apologize, I have not read every page in this thread. I was just replying to the first few threads that I've seen. Still, whoever it is, bringing in personal attacks is always lame.

I am sure Disney did some sort of background research, but did they do enough?? Fact is, you don't know nor do I.. Only Disney knows.... And I challenge you to call Disney and gather this research data.. See if they are very forthcoming withit.. I would say they won't be... but, if this becomes part of the lawsuit, then Disney will be FORCED to release it so we would know once and for all if Disney did in fact do enough research.. if they didn't, they better have their checkbook open and a pen in hand.. if they did, then on to the next issue....

Agreed, neither of us know how much research theyve done. However, I know they've done enough research where I SHOULD feel safe enough to ride it without any complications. By the warnings that are labeled outside the ride and along the queue, I knew it wasn't going to be a smooth ride. I felt that I was in good condition so I decided to ride it, and I enjoyed it very much. It was a chance on my part and a decision that I hold myself responsible to, especially after hearing stories of people getting sick. I think that is enough to a certain degree. If you want to read through hundreds of documents about all the studies and tests they have done to decide if you want to ride it, then I say petition Disney to start releasing all their research documentation.

How is it relevant?? If there was a scientist or doctor manager who raised concerns over the SUSTAINED G's and the effects it could have, leading to death, and they were silenced.. This is pertinent.. Hard to prove, obviously... But relevant if this actually was the case...

Hundreds of people have ridden on M:S. If the ride started killing people right away then I would look more into this.

The commericals in fact so little kids laughing on the ride.. When, we all know, this is not the case.. This isn't Dumbo... This isn't a kiddie ride where you can turn your head and laugh, as the commercials suggest.. So, therefore the commericals are misleading... Your 4 year old son sees this commerical, as do you and he is excited about riding M:S.. You think because the commerical is geared toward children enjoying the ride that the ride is fine.. After all, Splash mountain has the same warnings and SM is very tame... Now, wouldn't you call those commercials misleading and enticing??? Please don't say LOOK THE INFO UP.. believe it or not, not everyone has the internet.. and not everyone has the time to spend on these sites to gain this information about the ride.. When do people normally find out how intense M:S is?? When it is too late.. When they alreayd paid Disney thousands of dollars to stay and visit the parks... all because their 4 year old child saw what appeared to be a kiddie ride into space in a Disney commercial, obviously geared toward CHILDREN

This is a whole other conversation. We can get into if the commercials are misleading or not. Or talk about the responsibility of a parent. A parent should be precautious with anything their children is involved in. Whether it's little league or a roller coaster.

I think he was just using this as an example... Look deeper into his meaning... Tabacco companies said smoking doesn't cause cancer and doesn't kill... yet, years later, they were proven wrong... Not saying M:S is a death machine.. but everyone is jumping saying the ride is not a killer, but... you don't know if the way the ride works and the effects it has on the body are dangerous... This again will come out in trial....

Once again, I don't see the correlation between the two. First off, please show me where tobacco companies stated that smoking does not cause cancer or kill? I remember how they tried to say they weren't addictive, but I can't find anymore info. I've ridden on M:S PLENTY of times, before and after Mexico...and it hasn't killed me. People might have had complications on the ride, but guess what, if you have a weak heart, back, have problems with seizures or are pregnant...you shouldn't be on there!

Thanks for the warm welcome! :king:

 

[Captain Chaos]

But by that argument, then no one should be held liable. I am not saying Disney should be held liable. I am clearly stating that the parents should not be trashed as idiots and bad parents.

The parents had questionable parenting skills by letting their 4 year old ride the ride. As a parent of a small child, I always go on a ride first by myself to see if it is appropriate for my child, we don't try something new that has a possibility of an adverse effect together. That is good that you test run a ride before letting your children on. And other parents SHOULD do the same. But, still, I do not see where this mother was wrong.. We cannot blame the father because he did not accompany them on this trip if i recall correctly. Questionable parenting skills would be plopping your child in front of a TV all day without watching what they are doing or monitoring their actions. Not giving your kids something to eat... I cannot question the parenting skills because the mother let her 4 year old son on a ride. As a matter of fact, it has been stated here before that other 4 year olds have been on this ride with no problems. The mother made the choice to let her son ride. I don't think she should be chastised for it.

You may say that Disney says the ride is safe, which it is. As a physician, there are many risks everyone takes in their lives, and some cannot be forseen. I am allergic to penicillin and almost died when I was 4 because of anaphylactic shock. If I did die, should my parents have had the right to sue the pediatrician becuase he gave me a medicine that I was severly allergic to and killed me? If yor doctor knew you were allergic and still gave it to you, then YES!!!!! But this is different. We assume Disney did not know this ride would have the problems it is having.

Disney has warned people not to go on this ride not only if they have a health conditon, but if there is a possibility of a health condition. Do they? The warnings state if you suffer from any of the following... The warning do not state IF YOU THINK YOU MAY HAVE A HEALTH CONDITION.. Get a picture of the warnings... Lets see for sure what the warnings say...

There are many other instances in life that cause harm and death becuase poor choices were made in instances that are safe to 99.999% of people but one person is effected by it. As for hundreds of people going to the hospital or being treated at the ride itself, I'd like to find out how many of those people have choosen to go on teacups, my guess is not many, and if they did how many felt similar to their experience on MS. I'm just so darn tired of people not taking responsibility for themselves or their children.:zipit Now this argument has resulted in comparing MS to the Tea Cups... why does it matter? Cause the Tea Cups spin?? I want to know how many sustained G's are on your body on the Tea Cups.. I want to know how many people have been on the tea cups and had the feeling of their skin peeling off their face.. I want to know how many people were on Tea Cups and had a ton of pressure applied to their chest. Have people gotten sick on tea Cups? UH huh... I would say more from spinning... And I would also venture to say, those same people who threw up, got sick from motion sickness from the Tea Cups and did not come off there feeling like they were having a heart attack... Whereas majority of those coming off M:S were SERIOUS enough to be rushed to the hospital... How many people came off Tea Cups with severe chest pains and needed an ambulance to be rushed to the hospital? I would say, not many, at least not as many as Mission: SPACE ...

 

[Captain Chaos]

The medicine against puking in Mission Space would be... creating a ice cold enviroment in the pods...

One only need a bit of G's to get someone puking in a warm enviroment...

Back to topic...
Well...

Mr. ordinary, could handle 2 G's for about 30 to 40 secs...
I'm not talking about 2 or 3 secs of G-force in a roller coaster or so... but a constant g-force on men's body

3 G's 70% of the people will black out...

4 G's 100% will black out

Everything above 4 G's is for fighter pilots and astronauts...

There will be people who will not believe this... but it's true...

Actually, anyone who saw that roller coaster show on History Channel would know this....

 

[wannab@dis]

You may say that Disney says the ride is safe, which it is. As a physician, there are many risks everyone takes in their lives, and some cannot be forseen. I am allergic to penicillin and almost died when I was 4 because of anaphylactic shock. If I did die, should my parents have had the right to sue the pediatrician becuase he gave me a medicine that I was severly allergic to and killed me? If yor doctor knew you were allergic and still gave it to you, then YES!!!!! But this is different. We assume Disney did not know this ride would have the problems it is having.

I'm afraid you're way off-base on this one. The two are extremely similar. In fact, I would say the chances of death from an allergic reaction to penicillin is higher than death by M:S. Does that mean we should sue the drug companies? Of course, it has warning labels and I bet anaphylactic shock is listed. In neither case should an unknown be used as a basis for blaming someone.

Also, I would like to caution you on some of your rhetoric. You, and others, have been awful free with demonizing the ones that feel this lawsuit is frivilous. Sure, there's been a couple of posters that have crossed the line and trashed the parents, but for the most part those against the lawsuit have been civil. In fact, it appears to me that it's moreso those defending the lawsuit that have been throwing out the shots.

Let's try to keep this civil so the thread doesn't get locked or deleted.

 

[Rayray]

I've got no evidence to back this up, but I am gonna say it and hope that someone might elaborate. It seems that (as far as mechanics goes) that most people get sick from moving their head (inner ear) while spinning. Wouldn't centrifugal force be the same as normal (perpendicular) force if the rider stayed still. I know that this is a slight thread drift but I would love for someone well versed in mechanics and anatomy to explain.


BTW, I still stand firm that the law suit is extremely frivolous.

 

[Rayray]

I'm afraid you're way off-base on this one. The two are extremely similar. In fact, I would say the chances of death from an allergic reaction to penicillin is higher than death by M:S. Does that mean we should sue the drug companies? Of course, it has warning labels and I bet anaphylactic shock is listed. In neither case should an unknown be used as a basis for blaming someone.

Also, I would like to caution you on some of your rhetoric. You, and others, have been awful free with demonizing the ones that feel this lawsuit is frivilous. Sure, there's been a couple of posters that have crossed the line and trashed the parents, but for the most part those against the lawsuit have been civil. In fact, it appears to me that it's moreso those defending the lawsuit that have been throwing out the shots.

Let's try to keep this civil so the thread doesn't get locked or deleted.

Wonderfully said.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I must apologize, I have not read every page in this thread. I was just replying to the first few threads that I've seen. Still, whoever it is, bringing in personal attacks is always lame.

Lame, sure... but it is just as lame blaming the parents for this boy and attacking them....

Agreed, neither of us know how much research theyve done. However, I know they've done enough research where I SHOULD feel safe enough to ride it without any complications. By the warnings that are labeled outside the ride and along the queue, I knew it wasn't going to be a smooth ride. I felt that I was in good condition so I decided to ride it, and I enjoyed it very much. It was a chance on my part and a decision that I hold myself responsible to, especially after hearing stories of people getting sick. I think that is enough to a certain degree. If you want to read through hundreds of documents about all the studies and tests they have done to decide if you want to ride it, then I say petition Disney to start releasing all their research documentation.

You highlighted the key word.. SHOULD.. we all should feel safe when in Disney.. After all, Disney does pride themselves on safety first... You bring the warnings up again... All well and good, and I believe people need to take these warning serious.. But these SAME warnings are on mild rides... Can you see where people become desensilized from them? And we cannot say people need to read these websites to learn about the rides because, shocking as it may seem, not everyone has the internet... Maybe the warning signs and the pre-show video are not enough.. I don't know what else Disney could do though.... I too chose to ride M:S in 2004 after reading about the people getting sick from the ride.. I get sick from flying on a plane, but decided to give mS a try.. I was a nervous wreck that I too was going to get sick... Thankfully, I didn't.. However, I did not like the feeling it gave me, and I did not like the ride in general.. I know people here love it and say it is the bes thing ever, but I don't think it is worth 100 million.. My opinion, and I am probably going to get flamed for it...

Hundreds of people have ridden on M:S. If the ride started killing people right away then I would look more into this.

Hunderds is short changing.. Its been millions... But, how can you over look that in just 2 short years, there have been 2 deaths attributed to the ride, 150 serious calls for medical attention (meaning serious enough to warrant over night hospital stays anf followup checkups, not just going for an examination and going back to the park 2 hours later).... Maybe there is more too the way the ride runs.. But, maybe this is all a bunch of nothing too...

This is a whole other conversation. We can get into if the commercials are misleading or not. Or talk about the responsibility of a parent. A parent should be precautious with anything their children is involved in. Whether it's little league or a roller coaster.

Yes.. a parent should be more precautious.. But, when there is a commercial that specifically shows kids smiling and laughing and playing around in MS like it was a game, a parent, who does not have knowledge of this ride, may think it is nothing and make that choice to let their child ride... Cause, again, the warnings are also posted on Splash Mountain, and I would hardly call that ride intense... So, after seeing the commercial, and seeing these same warnings on a ride that is not intense, a parents MAY JUST ASSUME M:S is tame too... Again, I don't know how Disney can put it out there of the intense nature of MS but the warnings signs just aren't enough obviously... Actually, what is on the new maps?? Does M:S have a description on it stating this is a spinning, intesne attraction or is it a dumbed down explanation like the other rides? I haven't seena new map so I don't know.. But maybe DIsney can have a disclaimer printed on the map, or have their CMs explain in more detail just how intense the intense version is...

Once again, I don't see the correlation between the two. First off, please show me where tobacco companies stated that smoking does not cause cancer or kill? I remember how they tried to say they weren't addictive, but I can't find anymore info. I've ridden on M:S PLENTY of times, before and after Mexico...and it hasn't killed me. People might have had complications on the ride, but guess what, if you have a weak heart, back, have problems with seizures or are pregnant...you shouldn't be on there!

Again, not so much as comparing Disney to tobacco companies... Just making a point that everything isn't always as advertised... Hence those commercials.. MS is not a ride where kids go on, laugh, fool around, and turn to each other and joke.... If you have a weak heart and know it, yes common sense says you should not ride.. I do agree with you...

Thanks for the warm welcome! :king:

You make some great points and that's cool... Calm, thought out debate is welcome.. it is the attacking posts I have a problem with.. Hope you enjoy these boards... Just understand that not everyone on here is insensitive and majority of the people are smart and intelligent and can debate wisely.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I'm afraid you're way off-base on this one. The two are extremely similar. In fact, I would say the chances of death from an allergic reaction to penicillin is higher than death by M:S. Does that mean we should sue the drug companies? Of course, it has warning labels and I bet anaphylactic shock is listed. In neither case should an unknown be used as a basis for blaming someone.

Actually, I said if the doctor KNEW about the allergy to penicillin, and still gave it to the patient, and the patient died, then YES the doctor os liable.. But if no one knew about the allergy to penicillin and the doctor prescribed it, and the patient died, then NO the doctor shouldn't be held liable.. But that doesn't mean the family still won't sue.. because, they sure would.....

Also, I would like to caution you on some of your rhetoric. You, and others, have been awful free with demonizing the ones that feel this lawsuit is frivilous. Sure, there's been a couple of posters that have crossed the line and trashed the parents, but for the most part those against the lawsuit have been civil. In fact, it appears to me that it's moreso those defending the lawsuit that have been throwing out the shots.

Let's try to keep this civil so the thread doesn't get locked or deleted.

I am not defending this lawsuit.. I too said it may be frivilous.. I just don't think attacking these parents are called for.. I have never called anyone on here a name other than one particular poster who decided to call people and these parents idiots.. Actually, I think my posts have been rather civil unlike other posts where the parents were called bad parents, idiots, and other names... Some people on here who are against the suit have been extremely insensitive and cruel... Not all, but some.. And actually, how many on this board are rooting for the lawsuit??? I said it before and i said it again, I am not for this lawsuit... I do believe, however, this family will walk away with a lot of money....

I just want to add one more thing.. Put yourself in the shoes of this mother, of these parents... How would you feel if you lost your child? I am sure you would feel terrible... Would you like it if people on a Disnye fan site called you bad parents??? Would you sue Disney, Universal, or Six Flags???

 

[Captain Chaos]

I've got no evidence to back this up, but I am gonna say it and hope that someone might elaborate. It seems that (as far as mechanics goes) that most people get sick from moving their head (inner ear) while spinning. Wouldn't centrifugal force be the same as normal (perpendicular) force if the rider stayed still. I know that this is a slight thread drift but I would love for someone well versed in mechanics and anatomy to explain.


BTW, I still stand firm that the law suit is extremely frivolous.

I am not sure, but... part of the instructions are to keep your head still and look forward at all times.... I don't know if this is the same as centrifuge mechanics, but, if you stand up and twirl yourself around, looking straight and not moving your head, you will still get dizzy... May not be the same in this situation though... I am sure someone here may know..

 

[Boardwalk Joe's]

I say bring back Horizons!

 

[wannab@dis]

I just want to add one more thing.. Put yourself in the shoes of this mother, of these parents... How would you feel if you lost your child? I am sure you would feel terrible... Would you like it if people on a Disnye fan site called you bad parents??? Would you sue Disney, Universal, or Six Flags???

I've never said the parents are to blame... I've been saying that there's nobody to blame.

Yes, of course... if I lost my little girl, I would be devastated. However, in the same situation, I wouldn't sue Disney. There's absolutely no way they would liable so doing so would not make sense and would not alleviate the pain. However, I wouldn't return and I would probably forever associate the parks with a horrible event.

 

[MrNonacho]

But, when there is a commercial that specifically shows kids smiling and laughing and playing around in MS like it was a game

No commercial has ever shown anyone on M:S doing anything but looking forward and pushing buttons.

Also, the VAST majority of little kids come off the ride smiling and saying how cool it was. Almost every person that comes off the ride queasy is an adult. It's been my experience that younger kids generally handle the ride better than their parents do.

 

[ilovepluto23]

I think it's safe to say that basically...noone is to blame. If tons of kids come off the ride smiling and just fine...and this one child died out of thousands of children...then there must have been an underlying, unknown condition. Noone is to blame that this wasn't found. Things can go undetected for years, but is that a physicians fault? A parent's fault? Not always. The human body is a strange yet amazing thing. It can only be figured out to a point. Hey, they're discovering new things in disease and medicine every day! (well...mainly b/c viruses have genetic shifts, drifts, etc. and then bacteria become resistant b/c doctors overuse antibiotics...that's going a bit too far).

Even though I find it common knowledge not to bring a child as young as 4 on a ride with G-forces...I assume a good bit of people don't think about it b/c it's a ride at WDW (and Disney's rides are probably the safest rides around). I guess suing is a way to grieve in a sense. What else can you do? Just go back home and pretend your child didn't die on a ride during vacation?

 

[Sharon L]

This is just another example of our society's inability to accept that sometimes bad things happen and there is no one to blame. As soon as something like this happens, the lawyers start sniffing around, and soon they have convinced the people involved that it is someone's fault and they should be punished, monetarily of course. These lawyers usually get about a third of the judgement or settlement. They are truly the villains in these stories.

 

[dumboflyer]

I don't know if anyone has already said this, b/c I don't have time to read through 200 posts right now. SO, if this is repetitious, please forgive me.

Why this Lawsuit will Fail
By Dumboflyer

1. Sole Proximate Cause. Riding M:S was not the sole proximate cause of the child's death. This is evidenced by the preexisting heart condition and by the fact that NO ONE has ever died from riding M:S that didn't have a preexisting condition of some sort.

2. Assumption of Risk. I understand the family's grief, but I think it's highly unlikely that the family sincerely believes that there wasn't adequate warning. More than likely, this issue was raised and is being pushed by the Plaintiff's attorney, who in turn is motivated by dividing the damages for a 4-year-old wrongful death by 3 to get his contingency fee.

-------

In short, this lawsuit is a LOSER with a capital L. Unless he's completely worthless, the Plaintiff's attorney knows this would get shot down by a jury, and he's just hoping for a cost-of-litigation settlement.

AND, lest any of you think I'm regurgitating any of this from some website, I would like to point out that I am currently employed as a law clerk in a firm that practices ONLY in insurance defense.