Disney considering a new World Showcase pavilion BY REMOVING AN EXISTING COUNTRY?!?!

[wm49rs]

That this is being floated is probably a reliable indication that it's been proposed or considered by TDO. (Can any "insiders" dispute that?)

If so, then maybe it's time to lose all faith in Disney. The room for expansion is obvious to everyone, and the sense of demolition and reconstruction is obscure, at best. Fans have been clamoring for a new nation in World Showcase for years, and they would be the target audience for any expansion. Only they, and not the casual, once-in-a-generation visitor, would acknowledge the significance of a new nation along the lagoon. But their enthusiasm would be tempered, if not completely abrogated, by the symbolism of corporate stinginess and of creative constipation represented by replacing an older pavilion with a new one, rather than simply adding.

This would be the equivalent of offering a child a spectacular Christmas present, but only in exchange for his cherished birthday gift from a few months back--absolutely insane. The money is already spent on the older toy, which may have lost some of its magic, but still warrants the love of something comfortable, familiar, and irreplaceable. What's the sense of abandoning it when the cost of replacement would only add to the expense of new construction?

This thread was from a Screamscape (I believe) posting that said someone had emailed into the site claiming they had partaken in a poll asking them what their favorite country was and which one they wouldn't mind see departing, if replaced by a new country. Surveys like this are not uncommon, and I wouldn't put much stock in them replacing any existing pavilions with a new one any time soon.

 

[jt04]

This thread was from a Screamscape (I believe) posting that said someone had emailed into the site claiming they had partaken in a poll asking them what their favorite country was and which one they wouldn't mind see departing, if replaced by a new country. Surveys like this are not uncommon, and I wouldn't put much stock in them replacing any existing pavilions with a new one any time soon.

Exactly. Taking the possibility that Disney is considering removing a pavilion seriously is much more telling of those who believe such a thing than an indication of TDO reacting in a way that supports the absurd characterizations made around here.

This is the lamest rumor I have ever read concerning WDW. Sad thing to fall for such foolishness and even sadder for those who take it seriously.

:brick:

 

[Krack]

Exactly. Taking the possibility that Disney is considering removing a pavilion seriously is much more telling of those who believe such a thing than an indication of TDO reacting in a way that supports the absurd characterizations made around here.

This is the lamest rumor I have ever read concerning WDW. Sad thing to fall for such foolishness and even sadder for those who take it seriously.

:brick:

Please, Disney has given people plenty of reasons to believe a rumor like this has some validity to it. It's their own fault. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go ride Mr. Toad and Horizons* ... oops.

* And 20k Leagues, and the World of Motion, and Kitchen Kabaret/Food Rocks, and Superstar Television, and the Imageworks, and ...

 

[wm49rs]

Please, Disney has given people plenty of reasons to believe a rumor like this has some validity to it. It's their own fault. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go ride Mr. Toad and Horizons ... oops.

In all fairness to TDO (because even they deserve it every once and a while), Disney didn't promote this rumor. Again, this was a supposed email sent into Screamscape detailing a supposed survey.

 

[Krack]

In all fairness to TDO (because even they deserve it every once and a while), Disney didn't promote this rumor. Again, this was a supposed email sent into Screamscape detailing a supposed survey.

Disney never promotes rumors. But they take surveys all the time. If their past behavior wasn't so ridiculously cheap and awful over the last 15 years, the questions asked in their surveys wouldn't become a source of believable rumors. Not to mention, everyone knows that many, many times they set these survey questions up to get the results they want so they can justify bad actions.

Remember "Would you like to see more shopping and dining options at Pleasure Island?"

Why wasn't that question "What would you prefer? (a) Keeping Pleasure Island as is, (b) Adding additional shopping and dining options to Pleasure Island, or (c) knocking down Pleasure Island and replacing it with more dining and shopping options?" Somehow it slipped their minds to leave in an option where the clubs stayed and they built additional shopping next to them.

Or they'll come up with a survey "Would you prefer more rides and attractions or dining or shopping?" and then somehow accidentally only manage to ask soccer moms. Disney is transparent when it comes to this stuff.

 

[wm49rs]

Disney never promotes rumors. But they take surveys all the time. If their past behavior wasn't so ridiculously cheap and awful over the last 15 years, the questions asked in their surveys wouldn't become a source of believable rumors. Not to mention, everyone knows that many, many times they set these survey questions up to get the results they want so they can justify bad actions.

Remember "Would you like to see more shopping and dining options at Pleasure Island?"

Why wasn't that question "What would you prefer? (a) Keeping Pleasure Island as is, (b) Adding additional shopping and dining options to Pleasure Island, or (c) knocking down Pleasure Island and replacing it with more dining and shopping options?" Somehow it slipped their minds to leave in an option where the clubs stayed and they built additional shopping next to them.

Or they'll come up with a survey "Would you prefer more rides and attractions or dining or shopping?" and then somehow accidentally only manage to ask soccer moms. Disney is transparent when it comes to this stuff.

But let's bear in mind, no one actually knows if these surveys have been taking place. The Screamscape article said someone had emailed them about it, so the very source is unknown.

And yes, Disney conducts these surveys all of the time. Many corporations do. But the fact this survey (may have) took place doesn't equate to anything actually happening....

 

[Krack]

But let's bear in mind, no one actually knows if these surveys have been taking place. The Screamscape article said someone had emailed them about it, so the very source is unknown.

And yes, Disney conducts these surveys all of the time. Many corporations do. But the fact this survey (may have) took place doesn't equate to anything actually happening....

I chose to take Screamscape (and the guy who sent the information in to Screamscape) at its word. And based on that information, I believe it is most likely that management is trying to either:

(a) Figure out if they can justify eliminating any of the countries in World Showcase without starting a firestorm, or
(b) Figure out if it can replace one of the countries in World Showcase without starting a firestorm.

When WDW management starts making an effort, I'll start giving it the benefit of the doubt again (as I did in the 80s and early 90s).

 

[jt04]

Please, Disney has given people plenty of reasons to believe a rumor like this has some validity to it. It's their own fault. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go ride Mr. Toad and Horizons* ... oops.

* And 20k Leagues, and the World of Motion, and Kitchen Kabaret/Food Rocks, and Superstar Television, and the Imageworks, and ...

All of your examples happened under a different CEO and management team. You are complaigning about a system that has changed dramitically.

 

[wm49rs]

I chose to take Screamscape (and the guy who sent the information in to Screamscape) at its word. And based on that information, I believe it is most likely that management is trying to either:

(a) Figure out if they can justify eliminating any of the countries in World Showcase without starting a firestorm, or
(b) Figure out if it can replace one of the countries in World Showcase without starting a firestorm.

When WDW management starts making an effort, I'll start giving it the benefit of the doubt again (as I did in the 80s and early 90s).

Well, to each their own. I tend not to believe anything until I have more than one (unconfirmed, unknown, undocumented, unattributed) source of information......

 

[jt04]

Disney never promotes rumors. But they take surveys all the time. If their past behavior wasn't so ridiculously cheap and awful over the last 15 years, the questions asked in their surveys wouldn't become a source of believable rumors. Not to mention, everyone knows that many, many times they set these survey questions up to get the results they want so they can justify bad actions.

Remember "Would you like to see more shopping and dining options at Pleasure Island?"

Why wasn't that question "What would you prefer? (a) Keeping Pleasure Island as is, (b) Adding additional shopping and dining options to Pleasure Island, or (c) knocking down Pleasure Island and replacing it with more dining and shopping options?" Somehow it slipped their minds to leave in an option where the clubs stayed and they built additional shopping next to them.

Or they'll come up with a survey "Would you prefer more rides and attractions or dining or shopping?" and then somehow accidentally only manage to ask soccer moms. Disney is transparent when it comes to this stuff.

This thread is all about the closing of PI really, always has been. But didn't a certain performer from the AC say it's time to let it go? And is this really the place to complain about it anyway? Seems to me, if you have a beef with Disney, take it to Disney. We can't fix it for you even if we wanted to.

 

[Krack]

All of your examples happened under a different CEO and management team. You are complaigning about a system that has changed dramitically.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

This thread is all about the closing of PI really, always has been. But didn't a certain performer from the AC say it's time to let it go? And is this really the place to complain about it anyway? Seems to me, if you have a beef with Disney, take it to Disney. We can't fix it for you even if we wanted to.

When Disney stops using push polling/surveys to justify whatever they had already made up their minds to do anyway (typically the cheapest way out of any situation), I will stop complaining about it and pointing out their method of operation.

 

[jt04]

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

No, can't agree with you. See, DCA and the FLE and Pixar Place and soon Star Tours 2. That is more a hint of the future than the SM refurb (old system). The changes have been made, the future has arrived.

 

[wm49rs]

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.



When Disney stops using push polling/surveys to justify whatever they had already made up their minds to do anyway (typically the cheapest way out of any situation), I will stop complaining about it and pointing out their method of operation.

How many polls did Disney conduct over the FLE expansion, the construction of BLT, the Stars Tours redesign, or the decision to return MSEP to MK? Disney conducts polls for information purposes only. And if Epcot, without benefit of bringing in a new country, is still pulling in solid numbers of guests, why would TDO decide to make any changes? Because either way it will cost a good deal of money.....

The Screamscape article went on to mention that Italy could be one of the countries removed. Which is curious considering a brand-new TS restaurant is being built there.

 

[Krack]

How many polls did Disney conduct over the FLE expansion, the construction of BLT, the Stars Tours redesign, or the decision to return MSEP to MK? Disney conducts polls for information purposes only.

If you think FLE is being built as a direct result of fairly worded surveys and accurate polling, with all due respect, you are out of your mind. How many 15 to 60 year old men do you think responded, "My biggest complaint about the Magic Kingdom is that I have to wait so long to see Belle and occassionally, I miss out on a Aurora autograph"? They wanted a cheap way to appease soccer moms and their daughters (which is the only people they market to anymore) and hope that, simultaneously, it'll give these same moms enough cover to trick their young sons into believing FLE is a reasonable alternative to Harry Potter land at Universal.

Disney marketing in a nutshell

I assure you, that if Disney offered a "Which would you prefer" survey (and gave accurate and fair representations of what each would consist of) where you ranked from 1 to 8, to all of the customers to through the gates:

1. Fantasyland Meet & Greet Expansion
2. Beastly Kingdom
3. Mystical Island
4. Pixarland
5. 2 new pavilions in Future World
6. 2 new pavilions in World Showcase
7. Lucasland
8. 6 new (additional) C-ticket darkrides in Fantasyland

... the Meet & Greet would not be the preferred option.

 

[wm49rs]

If you think FLE is being built as a direct result of fairly worded surveys and accurate polling, with all due respect, you are out of your mind. How many 15 to 60 year old men do you think responded, "My biggest complaint about the Magic Kingdom is that I have to wait so long to see Belle and occassionally, I miss out on a Aurora autograph"? They wanted a cheap way to appease soccer moms and their daughters (which is the only people they market to anymore) and hope that, simultaneously, it'll give these same moms enough cover to trick their young sons into believing FLE is a reasonable alternative to Harry Potter land at Universal.

Disney marketing in a nutshell[/QUOTE

Well, considering you know neither me nor my mind, we'll keep your attempts at insulting me out of this.

And I don't think Disney conducts polling to justify any decisions they make. Quite frankly, that's your point of view.

And speaking of, are you personally aware of any polling Disney did for the FLE, or any of the other decisions I listed? Didn't think so.....

Please, try to keep to the argument at hand. Your hatred of TDO and Disney management is clouding your statements.....

Again, you're taking the unsubstantiated word of a supposed email sent into Screamscape to justify your arguments. Not exactly holding a lot of water, they are.....

 

[_Scar]

I assure you, that if Disney offered a "Which would you prefer" survey (and gave accurate and fair representations of what each would consist of) where you ranked from 1 to 8, to all of the customers to through the gates:

1. Fantasyland Meet & Greet Expansion
2. Beastly Kingdom
3. Mystical Island
4. Pixarland
5. 2 new pavilions in Future World
6. 2 new pavilions in World Showcase
7. Lucasland
8. 6 new (additional) C-ticket darkrides in Fantasyland

... the Meet & Greet would not be the preferred option.

No, not even close.

 

[Krack]

And speaking of, are you personally aware of any polling Disney did for the FLE, or any of the other decisions I listed? Didn't think so.....

Please, try to keep to the argument at hand. Your hatred of TDO and Disney management is clouding your statements.....

Again, you're taking the unsubstantiated word of a supposed email sent into Screamscape to justify your arguments. Not exactly holding a lot of water, they are.....

If you chose to stick your head in your sand and pretend the Disney customer base (the entire customer base) was screaming out for more princess meet & greets, I can't stop you. I believe your viewpoint is naive. If you find that insulting, I'm sorry, but it's about as tame an insult as you'll find on any message board on the internet, so I can live with myself.

If you believe Disney only takes surveys and polls for informational purposes only, and never to justify some result they already have in their minds, again, I'm not going to be able to change your mind. I already pointed out in the thread how they did exactly that with Pleasure Island. They do things, the way they do them, because they know they can play some of the fanbase like a fiddle.

And, yes, I don't like Disney management. I think they've done a poor job since 1994. That's over 15 years, I feel that is long enough to form an informed viewpoint. I think they've been very shortsighted and done things to the detriment of the Orlando parks that will really start making themselves evident over the next two generations (the crippling of the original Future World concept being chief among them).

But just so we know where everyone stands ... are you claiming Screamscape is a liar, the guy who wrote the email (saying he was surveyed) is a liar, or that both are liars? Or is it that you're not sure, but somebody must be a liar because Disney would never take a survey like this?

EDIT: added additional comments

 

[wm49rs]

If you chose to stick your head in your sand and pretend the Disney customer base (the entire customer base) was screaming out for more princess meet & greets, I can't stop you. I believe your viewpoint is naive. If you find that insulting, I'm sorry, but it's about as tame an insult as you'll find on any message board on the internet, so I can live with myself.

If you believe Disney only takes surveys and polls for informational purposes only, and never to justify some result they already have in their minds, again, I'm not going to be able to change your mind. I already pointed out in the thread how they did exactly that with Pleasure Island. They do things, the way they do them, because they know they can play some of the fanbase like a fiddle.

But just so we know where everyone stands ... are you claiming Screamscape is a liar, the guy who wrote the email (saying he was surveyed) is a liar, or that both are liars?

Again, you're basing your arguments on supposed surveys that you can't back up, and quite frankly you can't. So, no, I don't believe their decision for the FLE was based on some unknown survey that your little mind created. Instead, the FLE expansion, like the Star Tours redesign, the BLT, and pretty much everything else being done right now is for one thing: money. And if WDW can pull in guests during or after WWoHP opens, they will. WWoHP appeals to one demographic, the FLE another.

And how do you know it was a guy who wrote the email? How do you know there even was an email? Tell us, please. Inquiring minds want to know....

 

[Krack]

How do you know there even was an email? Tell us, please. Inquiring minds want to know....

Because, as I already stated previously in the thread, I take both the website and the email author at their words. I have no reason to doubt them, because it is consistent with past Disney practice. Further, no one has presented a reason why the email author would make up a false rumor and/or choose Screamscape as the unwilling accomplice. And, to the best of my knowledge, nobody from Disney has denied such a survey took place.

Simply put, Screamscape and an unknown email writer have more credibility in my mind than Disney management (who hasn't even acknowledge or denied such a survey happened). To one, I ascribe no motives, and to the other I ascribe poor motives (and will continue to do so until they change their modus operandi).

 

[wm49rs]

Because, as I already stated previously in the thread, I take both the website and the email author at their words. I have no reason to doubt them, because it is consistent with past Disney practice. Further, no one has presented a reason why the email author would make up a false rumor and/or choose Screamscape as the unwilling accomplice. And, to the best of my knowledge, nobody from Disney has denied such a survey took place.

Simply put, Screamscape and an unknown email writer have more credibility in my mind than Disney management (who hasn't even acknowledge or denied such a survey happened). To one, I ascribe no motives, and to the other I ascribe poor motives (and will continue to do so until they change their modus operandi).

So this is less about the facts and more about your distrust and hatred of TDO? Ok......