Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

Seabasealpha1

Well-Known Member
So,

Maybe someone already asked this...sorry if I don't read the other 96 pages...

What are they going to name this hot mess they're creating?

Also, how do they plan to get a worthwhile ride for such a hot property out of such a small que area and (truthfully) a short attraction run time? I kinda hope they at least leave the eye of Odin... :(

I will miss it...
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
The EPCOT Center was serious. It was supposed to be more than a pretty amusement park. That is the source of so much frustration. Disney once had a higher vision of themed entertainment, they believed it could have a positive impact on the world and bigger issues. Why should I not be annoyed when those ideas are, to applause, tossed aside in favor of just being some amusements without a bigger vision? What is lost to you if it remained serious? It was always a theme park.
EXTREMELY well put.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
I like "Snowman" better than "Let It Go" but your right "Let It Go" was very well placed in the movie. I rank it behind Tangled but ahead of a lot of the more recent releases from Disney/Pixar.
I agree, it wasn't better than Tangled. I just was far more vested in those characters than I was the teenage angst plot line they took (along with the dozen other trope storylines)....

Frozen was a good movie, but certainly NOT Lion King, or even Tangled.

And, Wreck it Ralph had a MUCH better and more touching story, with characters you could relate with if you are over the age of 15.

But, it did well in the Box Office, so what do I know.
 

misterID

Well-Known Member
No name that we know of.
We have people on this forum who replied to a thread here where WDW gave 3 million dollars to a children hospital with "that's all they gave?"

We have people on this forum who post comments that they hope others do not enjoy things that WDW offers because they are "part of the problem" and enjoying those things only give incentive to WDW to continue in the direction they are headed. Nice way to rain on others parade. We call that rude where I come from, well rude and childish.

We have people who say others who pay to do after hours events at the parks are getting scammed and are just suckers for doing so....even when it has zero effect them....a good example is to go back and look at the wind down thread at WS, talk about sticks in the mud attacking people who went to this event.....none of their business what people do with their own money but the sticks pulled their childish attack none there less.....and that was an event that occurred after WS was closed so it had zero effect on them....if that is not looking for something at WDW to moan about I don't know what is....

Just a few examples....there are many more.

I don't care for censorship but the stupidity (calling out anybody for donating "just 3 million dollars " is stupid anyway you want to look at it IMO), being flat out rude by insulting people on how they spend their money or wishing people have bad trips to WDW is not going to pass without response on the internet.

By the way what exactly is the difference between me calling out people for being negative sticks in the mud all the time on here and you calling me out for doing so? How am I calling for censorship by doing so and you are not? Seems a wee bit like a double standard on your part to me.

As for the rest of your post it's your opinion and that is fine, I don't agree with everything WDW does and when I don't I do not have an issue saying so. The way I handle things I don't care for is I just don't go to them at WDW or anywhere else. But I certainly don't feel the need to imply that those who do are just too stupid to know better. That occurs all too often on here, this thread being a prime example.

Like I said if folks want to spend their free time in angry rants all the time on here, it's their business. But they should expect a reply or two that does not agree with them. In the end it's all about a vacation resort, nothing serious enough to get all worked up over. A lot more serious matters in the world that require that :)
If someone insulted you, that's not cool. I didn't see it, I did see you and a few others come into the thread looking to start an argument by targeting the posters against the overlay and not so much the topic at hand.

I think you might be confused in your argument about censorship. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about whatever. I kind of... don't care about the overlay... But saying that with Spirit Of Norway here makes me feel like a real A**! I'm in no way trying to censor anyone. Instigating and debating are two different things.

There is definitely petty silliness from all sides, but when someone makes a blanket statement that could include me, or makes a direct post to me, I'll respond. You and a couple others waltzed in throwing around broad accusations and statements, and then countered with being picked on with insults. I really don't remember anyone calling you dumb or stupid... Your opinion is your own. You like the Frozen overlay. That's fine. Others share the opinion and made good arguments for it. But that's not the crux of your arguments. It seems to be the posters,

If you have a problem with a post take it up with the poster, not the board. The passive aggressive stuff gets real old.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
We have people on this forum who replied to a thread here where WDW gave 3 million dollars to a children hospital with "that's all they gave?"

We have people on this forum who post comments that they hope others do not enjoy things that WDW offers because they are "part of the problem" and enjoying those things only give incentive to WDW to continue in the direction they are headed. Nice way to rain on others parade. We call that rude where I come from, well rude and childish.

We have people who say others who pay to do after hours events at the parks are getting scammed and are just suckers for doing so....even when it has zero effect them....a good example is to go back and look at the wind down thread at WS, talk about sticks in the mud attacking people who went to this event.....none of their business what people do with their own money but the sticks pulled their childish attack none there less.....and that was an event that occurred after WS was closed so it had zero effect on them....if that is not looking for something at WDW to moan about I don't know what is....

Just a few examples....there are many more.

I don't care for censorship but the stupidity (calling out anybody for donating "just 3 million dollars " is stupid anyway you want to look at it IMO), being flat out rude by insulting people on how they spend their money or wishing people have bad trips to WDW is not going to pass without response on the internet.

By the way what exactly is the difference between me calling out people for being negative sticks in the mud all the time on here and you calling me out for doing so? How am I calling for censorship by doing so and you are not? Seems a wee bit like a double standard on your part to me.

As for the rest of your post it's your opinion and that is fine, I don't agree with everything WDW does and when I don't I do not have an issue saying so. The way I handle things I don't care for is I just don't go to them at WDW or anywhere else. But I certainly don't feel the need to imply that those who do are just too stupid to know better. That occurs all too often on here, this thread being a prime example.

Like I said if folks want to spend their free time in angry rants all the time on here, it's their business. But they should expect a reply or two that does not agree with them. In the end it's all about a vacation resort, nothing serious enough to get all worked up over. A lot more serious matters in the world that require that :)
EPCOT Center...

What is it?



Now, all that may seem silly (note the themed Disney characters, so while included, they were themed to the local culture in dress and other ways in WS)...

Now, let me explain what EPCOT (not Epcot) meant to me as a child growing up with it.

It's not just a collection of rides, it was the most well thought out large story experience ever...one that management forgot.

Lets start with Futureworld.

Your first experience is to see Spaceship Earth, the world's largest Geodesic Dome, and home to a story of how communication helped shape history, from ancient times to modern times.

It's been...crapped on. Now it's a somewhat loose story (sorry Dench lovers, but the ride isn't nearly as good as it was during the Cronkite or even the Irons era...though I don't remember the Dobkin ride well enough to comment). And the finale after ride (which, uniquely, doesn't dump you into a gift shop) doesn't focus on "communication", it focuses on Siemens. Not that the pavilion ending was always great, but at least when it was AT&T, we could see that, as that was their primary business...Siemans is not a great sponsor, but they have the right ideas. The experience doesn't hold the message it once did, but it still holds up.

So, you move on, into a "city of the future"...unlike Tomorrowland which is the "future that could, but will never be" and focuses more on the unrealistic and fantasy, Futureworld focuses on what is achievable within our lifetimes.

We start with the Communicores, West and East (and yes, they are Communicores, NOT Inneventions)...

Why?

Well, you just did this great ride that talked about how communication was so key to the development of civilization and human kind, and now, well, EVERY city is a "core of Communication"...

But, now it's nothing but a massive video game wall with systems and games that kids can play at home (boo), poorly done exhibits (yes I'm looking at you IBM, your exhibit is awful), social messages (I like the T Rowe Piggies, but what do they have to do with the "future"...unless we are Ferengi? And the "Fire prevention" experience, while fun, again, is lackluster for the message.

It's a far cry from what was there in the 80s and early 90s. Cutting edge animetronics, computers with touchscreens you could actually use, cutting edge simulators, and even a tour of the backdrop computer systems that powered the whole theme park.

Toss in there an Ice Cream Parlor that has long since given up being "futeristic" and a massive meet and greet walkthrough attraction, and of course the "Electric Umbrella"...a pretty bad QS offering.

Yeah, they aren't what they used to be, and they certainly aren't "futeristic".

So, then you go left, into the "technology" section of the park. And yes, the park is divided into two halves. The right is "Life Sciences" and follows a few design considerations (for example, the walkways are not straight), and the left is the "physical sciences" (all the walkways are straight, as long as you skip the water play places that have been added, and the coffee stands that have cropped up).

So, we go left.

First, you have Universe of Energy. Which, at one point, was an inspriational "educatainment" (I'll use that word again and again) ride that was fun, had great visuals, but also taught you something. And then, because ride statistics were low, I suppose, they thought it would be a good idea to revamp it, cut out the more unique visuals (yep, the rotating movie wall at the beginning) and include Ellen, because she'll be relevant for years!

But, the pavilion served an important purpose. All social and economic messages aside, Energy is important for civilization, and important for the future, and our exploration, conservation and understanding of it, how to create it and control it, and how to use it, is important. This pavilion taught an important lesson...until it was cartoonified.

<sigh>

So, they screwed that one up.

Then there's Wonders of Life. Which, is a neat Pavilion...doesn't really belong over here, and never did, but was well done when it was new. It is shuttered now, and is only used for various events like Food and Wine. What a waste.

And then there is Mission: Space, which is a such a cheaply done replacement for the epic Horizons that it is barely worth admitting. It's not a great thrill ride, it's not a great story, and it's not a great experience. The one thing it DOES have going for it is that the external design is really nice. But, as a ride, it belongs in HS, not in EPCOT, as it teaches you pretty much nothing, and focuses on the thrills alone.

I'll come back to Horizons, because this was the crown jewel of the park...at least for Tomorrowland, even though Spaceship Earth held the key slot (rightfully so, because without communication NONE of this other stuff would exist). But, skipping forward.

Then you have World of Motion, which has now been gutted into a cheap thrill ride.

Odyssey is pretty much falling along the same lines as Wonders of Life...forgettable and rarely used.

So, lets skip over to the other side of the park (right brain, left brain).

We start with the Seas, which used to have an immersive story that could inspire people to actually study marine biology, but now sits as an homage to a Pixar movie. It's not that I mind the inclusion of Nemo characters here, and the queue and experience at Turtle Talk is fantastic, as is what they did with the Shark Room. It engages people to LEARN. Classic Edutainment, and done quite well.

But, the Nemo ride itself is so bad. The queue is amazing, but the ride...disappointing.

In addition, the condition the pavilion is currently in, considering it's the THIRD LARGEST saltwater aquarium in the world is deplorable. They need to take a trip to ATL to see how it's done.

But, back in the day, it made you think, as a Guest...how cool would this be, living in the Seas? None of that exists today, and it's just a broken shell of what was once a great story, and great experience.

And, then you have the Land. Which has mostly devolved into a food court, a restaurant, a preachy movie (that, btw, makes fun of Theme Park development in a snarky way) and a queue for Sourin', which they cared so much about that they didn't even make a special movie for the EPCOT version, rather just cloned the DCA version...

Now we come to Imagination, which is the most screwed up of all the Pavilions.



This Pavilion, when it opened, was meant to inspire. You connected with these characters (Dreamfinder and Figgy). It told us that the new can be created from the old (like, having a kid), but the new can also find inspiration from the old, and that the old can likewise find inspiration from the new. Then you were invited into a wonderful playground of the senses.

I could rant about what they've done here for paragraphs, so I'll just leave it to say, they screwed this up so bad, and it was such a key to the overall story.

What IS that overall story?

"If we can dream it, then we can do it, yes we can."



Which brings us back to Horizons. Using technology, a respect for nature, communication, and transportation, we can make a better and brighter future for everyone.

And THAT was the message of Horizons.

As a child, seeing all this subconsciously impacted me.

Ok, I've prattled on enough about Futureworld...lets get into World Showcase, but first I need to take a break.
 
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englanddg

One Little Spark...
So, after spending half the day at Futureworld, now it's time to celebrate humanity. We've seen where and how we can go, if we focus on science and technology, and use our imaginations...but what about how to unite humanity for that goal?

Well, that starts with a respect for the variety of life that is human culture, and our experiences.

So, working from left to right...we start at the gateway, a nice transition from "futureworld" to "present world"...

First stop is Mexico.

A simply amazing pavilion that provides a complete experience of the best of Mexican culture (this term will be used again). The visuals are breathtaking, and the experiences, right down to a massive gift shop themed as a street market) is intriguing.

Is it Mexico? Nope, but it's an idealized version of it. And the ride was fun, until it got bastardized with "S. American" Disney characters...

Just because it's "latino" doesn't mean it's Mexican...sorry Disney.

So, moving on past the blank lot, we end up in Norway, the point of this thread.

Now, of all the places an American is likely to visit (currently), Norway is pretty low on the list, and was back then...so it needed to be steeped in culture, and it is. A playground (now closed) started the experience, and the Stave Church and other nods really made this one of the premier sites to visit...especially the unique ride with a story line that not only educated you, but truly conveyed Norweigian culture and pride. And even though it dumped you out into a gift shop and eatery, it was so well done that by the time you got there, you were ready to sample their culture.

(they are about to "mexico" Norway, hence this thread)

Then you have China. Never that great back in the day, but has come of age, it's shopping and wandering alleys are amazing.

And then what could best be termed as "Africa"...it always felt empty here, and still does.

But, Germany is next, and while it never got a ride (though planned), it's dining is excellent.

I could continue around the park in this manner, but I think I've made my point. There is a STORY to EPCOT (not Epcot)...

And every time they tinker with it, they need to consider that story, and it seems ever more presently that they don't.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
For example, the Three Headed Troll, unlike the Smurf rip off add nothing to the story outside of a plot convenience stone trolls in Frozen, actually has links in distinctly NORWEGIAN mythology.

And yeah, I'm aware that Norway was once (briefly) controlled by the Danes, but their culture is completely different (though both Norse) and to blend these stories into the Norway pavilion, even if the movie used a Norwegian composer for parts (though he used Danish source material)

It's sortof like saying that Texas is all of American culture, isn't it? Or NYC is representative of all of the US?

It's rather...offensive.

But, once again, who am I to say anything against a movie that made that much money. Obviously the court of public opinion is against me, so lets arbitrarily shove characters and scenes that have no place into a ride that currently exists.
 

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
"If we can dream it, then we can do it, yes we can.

This is one of the best posts I've ever read here, and I agree with it completely. It articulates, for those who perhaps weren't lucky enough to visit EPCOT in its prime, exactly what it is that many of us mourn about the park, and why we find today's Epcot a shadow of its former self.

What I'd do for a new Horizons... every time I visit Future World I miss it.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
This is one of the best posts I've ever read here, and I agree with it completely. It articulates, for those who perhaps weren't lucky enough to visit EPCOT in its prime, exactly what it is that many of us mourn about the park, and why we find today's Epcot a shadow of its former self.

What I'd do for a new Horizons... every time I visit Future World I miss it.
Oddly, EPCOT is my daughter's favorite park as well...

Though...it is a far cry from what is was in the 80s and early 90s...oh, if only she could have seen it then.
 

Matt_Black

Well-Known Member
For example, the Three Headed Troll, unlike the Smurf rip off add nothing to the story outside of a plot convenience stone trolls in Frozen, actually has links in distinctly NORWEGIAN mythology.

And yeah, I'm aware that Norway was once (briefly) controlled by the Danes, but their culture is completely different (though both Norse) and to blend these stories into the Norway pavilion, even if the movie used a Norwegian composer for parts (though he used Danish source material)

It's sortof like saying that Texas is all of American culture, isn't it? Or NYC is representative of all of the US?

It's rather...offensive.

But, once again, who am I to say anything against a movie that made that much money. Obviously the court of public opinion is against me, so lets arbitrarily shove characters and scenes that have no place into a ride that currently exists.

Except, as noted, there's plenty of bleed over among the cultures. For example, one of the many libations to be had at the Norway Pavilion is the tasty Aquavit (usually consumed in the Linie Aquavit Glacial Shot... mmmm....). However, that drink seems to have been a Danish invention.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
EPCOT Center...

What is it?



Now, all that may seem silly (note the themed Disney characters, so while included, they were themed to the local culture in dress and other ways in WS)...

Now, let me explain what EPCOT (not Epcot) meant to me as a child growing up with it.

It's not just a collection of rides, it was the most well thought out large story experience ever...one that management forgot.

Lets start with Futureworld.

Your first experience is to see Spaceship Earth, the world's largest Geodesic Dome, and home to a story of how communication helped shape history, from ancient times to modern times.

It's been...crapped on. Now it's a somewhat loose story (sorry Dench lovers, but the ride isn't nearly as good as it was during the Cronkite or even the Irons era...though I don't remember the Dobkin ride well enough to comment). And the finale after ride (which, uniquely, doesn't dump you into a gift shop) doesn't focus on "communication", it focuses on Siemens. Not that the pavilion ending was always great, but at least when it was AT&T, we could see that, as that was their primary business...Siemans is not a great sponsor, but they have the right ideas. The experience doesn't hold the message it once did, but it still holds up.

So, you move on, into a "city of the future"...unlike Tomorrowland which is the "future that could, but will never be" and focuses more on the unrealistic and fantasy, Futureworld focuses on what is achievable within our lifetimes.

We start with the Communicores, West and East (and yes, they are Communicores, NOT Inneventions)...

Why?

Well, you just did this great ride that talked about how communication was so key to the development of civilization and human kind, and now, well, EVERY city is a "core of Communication"...

But, now it's nothing but a massive video game wall with systems and games that kids can play at home (boo), poorly done exhibits (yes I'm looking at you IBM, your exhibit is awful), social messages (I like the T Rowe Piggies, but what do they have to do with the "future"...unless we are Ferengi? And the "Fire prevention" experience, while fun, again, is lackluster for the message.

It's a far cry from what was there in the 80s and early 90s. Cutting edge animetronics, computers with touchscreens you could actually use, cutting edge simulators, and even a tour of the backdrop computer systems that powered the whole theme park.

Toss in there an Ice Cream Parlor that has long since given up being "futeristic" and a massive meet and greet walkthrough attraction, and of course the "Electric Umbrella"...a pretty bad QS offering.

Yeah, they aren't what they used to be, and they certainly aren't "futeristic".

So, then you go left, into the "technology" section of the park. And yes, the park is divided into two halves. The right is "Life Sciences" and follows a few design considerations (for example, the walkways are not straight), and the left is the "physical sciences" (all the walkways are straight, as long as you skip the water play places that have been added, and the coffee stands that have cropped up).

So, we go left.

First, you have Universe of Energy. Which, at one point, was an inspriational "educatainment" (I'll use that word again and again) ride that was fun, had great visuals, but also taught you something. And then, because ride statistics were low, I suppose, they thought it would be a good idea to revamp it, cut out the more unique visuals (yep, the rotating movie wall at the beginning) and include Ellen, because she'll be relevant for years!

But, the pavilion served an important purpose. All social and economic messages aside, Energy is important for civilization, and important for the future, and our exploration, conservation and understanding of it, how to create it and control it, and how to use it, is important. This pavilion taught an important lesson...until it was cartoonified.

<sigh>

So, they screwed that one up.

Then there's Wonders of Life. Which, is a neat Pavilion...doesn't really belong over here, and never did, but was well done when it was new. It is shuttered now, and is only used for various events like Food and Wine. What a waste.

And then there is Mission: Space, which is a such a cheaply done replacement for the epic Horizons that it is barely worth admitting. It's not a great thrill ride, it's not a great story, and it's not a great experience. The one thing it DOES have going for it is that the external design is really nice. But, as a ride, it belongs in HS, not in EPCOT, as it teaches you pretty much nothing, and focuses on the thrills alone.

I'll come back to Horizons, because this was the crown jewel of the park...at least for Tomorrowland, even though Spaceship Earth held the key slot (rightfully so, because without communication NONE of this other stuff would exist). But, skipping forward.

Then you have World of Motion, which has now been gutted into a cheap thrill ride.

Odyssey is pretty much falling along the same lines as Wonders of Life...forgettable and rarely used.

So, lets skip over to the other side of the park (right brain, left brain).

We start with the Seas, which used to have an immersive story that could inspire people to actually study marine biology, but now sits as an homage to a Pixar movie. It's not that I mind the inclusion of Nemo characters here, and the queue and experience at Turtle Talk is fantastic, as is what they did with the Shark Room. It engages people to LEARN. Classic Edutainment, and done quite well.

But, the Nemo ride itself is so bad. The queue is amazing, but the ride...disappointing.

In addition, the condition the pavilion is currently in, considering it's the THIRD LARGEST saltwater aquarium in the world is deplorable. They need to take a trip to ATL to see how it's done.

But, back in the day, it made you think, as a Guest...how cool would this be, living in the Seas? None of that exists today, and it's just a broken shell of what was once a great story, and great experience.

And, then you have the Land. Which has mostly devolved into a food court, a restaurant, a preachy movie (that, btw, makes fun of Theme Park development in a snarky way) and a queue for Sourin', which they cared so much about that they didn't even make a special movie for the EPCOT version, rather just cloned the DCA version...

Now we come to Imagination, which is the most screwed up of all the Pavilions.



This Pavilion, when it opened, was meant to inspire. You connected with these characters (Dreamfinder and Figgy). It told us that the new can be created from the old (like, having a kid), but the new can also find inspiration from the old, and that the old can likewise find inspiration from the new. Then you were invited into a wonderful playground of the senses.

I could rant about what they've done here for paragraphs, so I'll just leave it to say, they screwed this up so bad, and it was such a key to the overall story.

What IS that overall story?

"If we can dream it, then we can do it, yes we can."



Which brings us back to Horizons. Using technology, a respect for nature, communication, and transportation, we can make a better and brighter future for everyone.

And THAT was the message of Horizons.

As a child, seeing all this subconsciously impacted me.

Ok, I've prattled on enough about Futureworld...lets get into World Showcase, but first I need to take a break.

So, after spending half the day at Futureworld, now it's time to celebrate humanity. We've seen where and how we can go, if we focus on science and technology, and use our imaginations...but what about how to unite humanity for that goal?

Well, that starts with a respect for the variety of life that is human culture, and our experiences.

So, working from left to right...we start at the gateway, a nice transition from "futureworld" to "present world"...

First stop is Mexico.

A simply amazing pavilion that provides a complete experience of the best of Mexican culture (this term will be used again). The visuals are breathtaking, and the experiences, right down to a massive gift shop themed as a street market) is intriguing.

Is it Mexico? Nope, but it's an idealized version of it. And the ride was fun, until it got bastardized with "S. American" Disney characters...

Just because it's "latino" doesn't mean it's Mexican...sorry Disney.

So, moving on past the blank lot, we end up in Norway, the point of this thread.

Now, of all the places an American is likely to visit (currently), Norway is pretty low on the list, and was back then...so it needed to be steeped in culture, and it is. A playground (now closed) started the experience, and the Stave Church and other nods really made this one of the premier sites to visit...especially the unique ride with a story line that not only educated you, but truly conveyed Norweigian culture and pride. And even though it dumped you out into a gift shop and eatery, it was so well done that by the time you got there, you were ready to sample their culture.

(they are about to "mexico" Norway, hence this thread)

Then you have China. Never that great back in the day, but has come of age, it's shopping and wandering alleys are amazing.

And then what could best be termed as "Africa"...it always felt empty here, and still does.

But, Germany is next, and while it never got a ride (though planned), it's dining is excellent.

I could continue around the park in this manner, but I think I've made my point. There is a STORY to EPCOT (not Epcot)...

And every time they tinker with it, they need to consider that story, and it seems ever more presently that they don't.
For example, the Three Headed Troll, unlike the Smurf rip off add nothing to the story outside of a plot convenience stone trolls in Frozen, actually has links in distinctly NORWEGIAN mythology.

And yeah, I'm aware that Norway was once (briefly) controlled by the Danes, but their culture is completely different (though both Norse) and to blend these stories into the Norway pavilion, even if the movie used a Norwegian composer for parts (though he used Danish source material)

It's sortof like saying that Texas is all of American culture, isn't it? Or NYC is representative of all of the US?

It's rather...offensive.

But, once again, who am I to say anything against a movie that made that much money. Obviously the court of public opinion is against me, so lets arbitrarily shove characters and scenes that have no place into a ride that currently exists.
slow_clap_citizen_kane.gif
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
Except, as noted, there's plenty of bleed over among the cultures. For example, one of the many libations to be had at the Norway Pavilion is the tasty Aquavit (usually consumed in the Linie Aquavit Glacial Shot... mmmm....). However, that drink seems to have been a Danish invention.
Carlsberg beer is Danish.
 

BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
EPCOT Center...

What is it?



Now, all that may seem silly (note the themed Disney characters, so while included, they were themed to the local culture in dress and other ways in WS)...

Now, let me explain what EPCOT (not Epcot) meant to me as a child growing up with it.

It's not just a collection of rides, it was the most well thought out large story experience ever...one that management forgot.

Lets start with Futureworld.

Your first experience is to see Spaceship Earth, the world's largest Geodesic Dome, and home to a story of how communication helped shape history, from ancient times to modern times.

It's been...crapped on. Now it's a somewhat loose story (sorry Dench lovers, but the ride isn't nearly as good as it was during the Cronkite or even the Irons era...though I don't remember the Dobkin ride well enough to comment). And the finale after ride (which, uniquely, doesn't dump you into a gift shop) doesn't focus on "communication", it focuses on Siemens. Not that the pavilion ending was always great, but at least when it was AT&T, we could see that, as that was their primary business...Siemans is not a great sponsor, but they have the right ideas. The experience doesn't hold the message it once did, but it still holds up.

So, you move on, into a "city of the future"...unlike Tomorrowland which is the "future that could, but will never be" and focuses more on the unrealistic and fantasy, Futureworld focuses on what is achievable within our lifetimes.

We start with the Communicores, West and East (and yes, they are Communicores, NOT Inneventions)...

Why?

Well, you just did this great ride that talked about how communication was so key to the development of civilization and human kind, and now, well, EVERY city is a "core of Communication"...

But, now it's nothing but a massive video game wall with systems and games that kids can play at home (boo), poorly done exhibits (yes I'm looking at you IBM, your exhibit is awful), social messages (I like the T Rowe Piggies, but what do they have to do with the "future"...unless we are Ferengi? And the "Fire prevention" experience, while fun, again, is lackluster for the message.

It's a far cry from what was there in the 80s and early 90s. Cutting edge animetronics, computers with touchscreens you could actually use, cutting edge simulators, and even a tour of the backdrop computer systems that powered the whole theme park.

Toss in there an Ice Cream Parlor that has long since given up being "futeristic" and a massive meet and greet walkthrough attraction, and of course the "Electric Umbrella"...a pretty bad QS offering.

Yeah, they aren't what they used to be, and they certainly aren't "futeristic".

So, then you go left, into the "technology" section of the park. And yes, the park is divided into two halves. The right is "Life Sciences" and follows a few design considerations (for example, the walkways are not straight), and the left is the "physical sciences" (all the walkways are straight, as long as you skip the water play places that have been added, and the coffee stands that have cropped up).

So, we go left.

First, you have Universe of Energy. Which, at one point, was an inspriational "educatainment" (I'll use that word again and again) ride that was fun, had great visuals, but also taught you something. And then, because ride statistics were low, I suppose, they thought it would be a good idea to revamp it, cut out the more unique visuals (yep, the rotating movie wall at the beginning) and include Ellen, because she'll be relevant for years!

But, the pavilion served an important purpose. All social and economic messages aside, Energy is important for civilization, and important for the future, and our exploration, conservation and understanding of it, how to create it and control it, and how to use it, is important. This pavilion taught an important lesson...until it was cartoonified.

<sigh>

So, they screwed that one up.

Then there's Wonders of Life. Which, is a neat Pavilion...doesn't really belong over here, and never did, but was well done when it was new. It is shuttered now, and is only used for various events like Food and Wine. What a waste.

And then there is Mission: Space, which is a such a cheaply done replacement for the epic Horizons that it is barely worth admitting. It's not a great thrill ride, it's not a great story, and it's not a great experience. The one thing it DOES have going for it is that the external design is really nice. But, as a ride, it belongs in HS, not in EPCOT, as it teaches you pretty much nothing, and focuses on the thrills alone.

I'll come back to Horizons, because this was the crown jewel of the park...at least for Tomorrowland, even though Spaceship Earth held the key slot (rightfully so, because without communication NONE of this other stuff would exist). But, skipping forward.

Then you have World of Motion, which has now been gutted into a cheap thrill ride.

Odyssey is pretty much falling along the same lines as Wonders of Life...forgettable and rarely used.

So, lets skip over to the other side of the park (right brain, left brain).

We start with the Seas, which used to have an immersive story that could inspire people to actually study marine biology, but now sits as an homage to a Pixar movie. It's not that I mind the inclusion of Nemo characters here, and the queue and experience at Turtle Talk is fantastic, as is what they did with the Shark Room. It engages people to LEARN. Classic Edutainment, and done quite well.

But, the Nemo ride itself is so bad. The queue is amazing, but the ride...disappointing.

In addition, the condition the pavilion is currently in, considering it's the THIRD LARGEST saltwater aquarium in the world is deplorable. They need to take a trip to ATL to see how it's done.

But, back in the day, it made you think, as a Guest...how cool would this be, living in the Seas? None of that exists today, and it's just a broken shell of what was once a great story, and great experience.

And, then you have the Land. Which has mostly devolved into a food court, a restaurant, a preachy movie (that, btw, makes fun of Theme Park development in a snarky way) and a queue for Sourin', which they cared so much about that they didn't even make a special movie for the EPCOT version, rather just cloned the DCA version...

Now we come to Imagination, which is the most screwed up of all the Pavilions.



This Pavilion, when it opened, was meant to inspire. You connected with these characters (Dreamfinder and Figgy). It told us that the new can be created from the old (like, having a kid), but the new can also find inspiration from the old, and that the old can likewise find inspiration from the new. Then you were invited into a wonderful playground of the senses.

I could rant about what they've done here for paragraphs, so I'll just leave it to say, they screwed this up so bad, and it was such a key to the overall story.

What IS that overall story?

"If we can dream it, then we can do it, yes we can."



Which brings us back to Horizons. Using technology, a respect for nature, communication, and transportation, we can make a better and brighter future for everyone.

And THAT was the message of Horizons.

As a child, seeing all this subconsciously impacted me.

Ok, I've prattled on enough about Futureworld...lets get into World Showcase, but first I need to take a break.


No offense but that is what it was, I was asking what it is today. It's changed over the decades, this recent move is not a departure from those previous changes. Although we don't have time machines if we did they would be at Epcot I guess :)
 

HatboxGhost

Well-Known Member
who am I to say anything against a movie that made that much money.
You have every right to say whatever you want. Just because a movie has made a ton of money doesn't always mean its good. I could name a BUNCH of films that have sucked in the past 10 years that have made a TON of unwarranted cash but I don't want to offend anyone. Hell, if I told you some of the films that I liked people would HATE them. Then again, those never really made a ton of cash at the box office.
 

BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
No name that we know of.

If someone insulted you, that's not cool. I didn't see it, I did see you and a few others come into the thread looking to start an argument by targeting the posters against the overlay and not so much the topic at hand.

I think you might be confused in your argument about censorship. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about whatever. I kind of... don't care about the overlay... But saying that with Spirit Of Norway here makes me feel like a real A**! I'm in no way trying to censor anyone. Instigating and debating are two different things.

There is definitely petty silliness from all sides, but when someone makes a blanket statement that could include me, or makes a direct post to me, I'll respond. You and a couple others waltzed in throwing around broad accusations and statements, and then countered with being picked on with insults. I really don't remember anyone calling you dumb or stupid... Your opinion is your own. You like the Frozen overlay. That's fine. Others share the opinion and made good arguments for it. But that's not the crux of your arguments. It seems to be the posters,

If you have a problem with a post take it up with the poster, not the board. The passive aggressive stuff gets real old.

I don't see a lot of the personal attacks any longer, the ignore feature is a blessing :) But I have seen enough in the past to know how it works around here for some.

The implied stupid comments are there, if you want you can go back and look. I am headed out to work so I do not have the time to reference them right now. :)
 

BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
I agree, it wasn't better than Tangled. I just was far more vested in those characters than I was the teenage angst plot line they took (along with the dozen other trope storylines)....

Frozen was a good movie, but certainly NOT Lion King, or even Tangled.

And, Wreck it Ralph had a MUCH better and more touching story, with characters you could relate with if you are over the age of 15.

But, it did well in the Box Office, so what do I know.

On no way man! Frozen put it's cold boot up Ralph's booty!
 

Spike-in-Berlin

Well-Known Member
So, moving on past the blank lot, we end up in Norway, the point of this thread.

Now, of all the places an American is likely to visit (currently)...A playground (now closed) started the experience, and the Stave Church and other nods really made this one of the premier sites to visit...especially the unique ride with a story line that not only educated you, but truly conveyed Norweigian culture and pride. And even though it dumped you out into a gift shop and eatery, it was so well done that by the time you got there, you were ready to sample their culture.
(they are about to "mexico" Norway, hence this thread)

Not exactly, if they would "mexico" Norway, it would mean we get a ride about Norway with some additional Disney characters. Gran Fiesta Tour, although more disneyficated than it's predecessor El Rio del Tiempo undoubtly is playing in Mexico, Panchito is a Mexican character (Not Jose Carioca and Donald of course but they are a trio) and the entire ride takes you from precolumbian Mexico (the pyramid etc) through different cities and states to present Mexico City. It still shows Mexican traditions and culture with a "Disney touch".
Not in Norway. Here we will get a ride about a fictitious country with fictitious characters, playing entirely in the 19th century INSPIRED by (Not only) Norwegian culture. Norway is not Arendelle and definitely we will not see anything truly and authentic Norwegian in the ride. That's a major difference to Mexico. Mexico is still Mexican. Norways ride is not only mexicoed , it's actually "DE-NORWAYED". And that's the scandal.
 

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