Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

[AEfx]

Bill doody.

Show me ONCE where someone thinks it's going to "ruin" World Showcase attraction specifically.

We have 379 pages of this thread, and that argument appears on a good half of them.

"This is a slap in the face of EPCOT!" yadda yadda.

People are still frustrated not because they *cannot accept change*, but because they are against a complete slap in the face to everything Epcot stands for.

For years Disney has wanted to turn the World Showcase into Fanstasyland 2.0., and this is the final nail in the coffin that it will happen.

As YOU said, EPCOT died a long time ago. Why do you think you are intelligent for realizing that rather that addressing the questions brought forth to you? Is it because you can't respond, so you'd rather deflect?

Uh, hello? "Final nail in the coffin?"

Sounds like you are saying that something is dead...ruined.

If you'd bring forth a question that wasn't just word play and misquoting me (if anyone is playing with a "straw man" it's you - though I don't think you really understand the concept so you wouldn't get that) I'd be happy to answer.

But that's just it - you can't come up with any actual questions that can have factual answers because your reasons are all based on this fantasy of what Disney PR sold you back in the day. It's all abstract, sub-conceptual, beliefs of things that have no basis in reality other than a fantasy Disney sold 35 years ago that you are insisting they keep up.

Again, you state they'll hate it, when they have said they wouldn't...and assume that is valid.

"we'd have a good portion of these same folks complaining that they were spending that kind of money on Frozen anyway."

It is not. But, you need that straw man, don't you.

Of course they would. Have you seen the Frozen hate around here? You are telling me that everyone would have been just fine if they spent $300M building a new Fantasyland attraction for Frozen, when the other parks are in such dire shape and the endless "Ugh Disney is beating Frozen into the ground" posts?

Please. You are the definition of arguing to argue. You just spit the same things back over and over with no content whatsoever. Folks may disagree with me, but I tend to back myself up quite well with solid reasoning as to why I feel the way I do.

Why don't YOU articulate your position, instead of attacking mine? What threatens you so from doing anything other than nitpicking at what others say? Is it because you don't have any original thoughts of your own? Or, likely, since you have demonstrated the exact things I am talking about every time you do open your mouth, you know it won't hold up?

 

[AEfx]

I feel the same things have been said about JimmyThicke and jt04.

Similar debating/posting style of all three. Hmmmm. Interesting.

Not sure what you two guys are implying, but if you think people are posting under multiple logins - I think you hit the wrong big thread on the front page.

As it's against the rules to do so, I invite Steve to check my IP - one account only for the past 12 years. I'd also say heck, run it over the whole board - I think things would be a lot more illuminated if it was done and those that do it (and even reply to themselves, which is a whole special kinda crazy) were exposed.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Not sure what you two guys are implying, but if you think people are posting under multiple logins - I think you hit the wrong big thread on the front page.

As it's against the rules to do so, I invite Steve to check my IP - one account only for the past 12 years. I'd also say heck, run it over the whole board - I think things would be a lot more illuminated if it was done and those that do it (and even reply to themselves, which is a whole special kinda crazy) were exposed.

Not you. LOL.

 

[spacemt354]

We have 379 pages of this thread, and that argument appears on a good half of them.

"This is a slap in the face of EPCOT!" yadda yadda.

Uh, hello? "Final nail in the coffin?"

Sounds like you are saying that something is dead...ruined.

If you'd bring forth a question that wasn't just word play and misquoting me (if anyone is playing with a "straw man" it's you - though I don't think you really understand the concept so you wouldn't get that) I'd be happy to answer.

But that's just it - you can't come up with any actual questions that can have factual answers because your reasons are all based on this fantasy of what Disney PR sold you back in the day. It's all abstract, sub-conceptual, beliefs of things that have no basis in reality other than a fantasy Disney sold 35 years ago that you are insisting they keep up.

Questions have been asked throughout the thread and they have factual answers.

Of course they would. Have you seen the Frozen hate around here? You are telling me that everyone would have been just fine if they spent $300M building a new Fantasyland attraction for Frozen, when the other parks are in such dire shape and the endless "Ugh Disney is beating Frozen into the ground" posts?

Please. You are the definition of arguing to argue. You just spit the same things back over and over with no content whatsoever. Folks may disagree with me, but I tend to back myself up quite well with solid reasoning as to why I feel the way I do.

Why don't YOU articulate your position, instead of attacking mine? What threatens you so from doing anything other than nitpicking at what others say? Is it because you don't have any original thoughts of your own? Or, likely, since you have demonstrated the exact things I am talking about every time you do open your mouth, you know it won't hold up?

People don't hate Frozen. People hate the concept of Frozen going into Norway. Big difference.

Do you see the same vitriol for Tokyo and their Frozen land? If Frozen was going into a place it belonged, like Fantasyland, this thread would have a lot less argumentation.

 

[AEfx]

Questions have been asked throughout the thread and they have factual answers.

My apologies for quoting you - someone insisted I find a post that stated something, yours was the first that came up.

People don't hate Frozen. People hate the concept of Frozen going into Norway. Big difference.

Do you see the same vitriol for Tokyo and their Frozen land? If Frozen was going into a place it belonged, like Fantasyland, this thread would have a lot less argumentation.

No, but I don't go to TDL boards and we envy everything they have so I wouldn't expect folks to complain about that here.

That said, if you really read back in this thread - the first few dozen pages are full of people saying "Well, it makes sense, I just wish we didn't lose Maelstrom". This whole "it doesn't belong in Norway" thing didn't come until later when folks began backing up the thought that indeed, while technically Arrendale or whatever it's called is not a real place, the story, the filmmakers, etc. pulled quite a bit from Norway while doing it.

Then it became the new complaint when they couldn't keep saying it was totally out of place - but now it was because it was fictional that was the issue. Somewhere in between was the complaint that "Characters don't belong in WS" to which it was proven that characters have been in WS since the 1980's, and then it was "Well, they don't belong there in standing attractions!"

There would be a lot less argument in these threads if people didn't keep rewriting the narratives, when the thing is they would have found something to hate on anyway.

 

[marni1971]

People don't hate Frozen. People hate the concept of Frozen going into Norway. Big difference

In a nutshell that's it.

The IP deserves a top notch attraction in a suitably themed environment. But most of all in a suitable park. This isn't it.

The MK is most suitable but that's been discussed ad nauseum. DHS needs a proper attendance boost - possibly more so than Epcot - and has plenty of suitable areas ready for a Frozen area. It could have had one by year end. In a purpose built area with a capacity to match its popularity.

 

[Cesar R M]

Who told you that nonsense? I hope you didn't believe them.

Maelstrom had a refurb planned. Until this mess.

So come on. Do you work for Disney or do you just believe their PR?

kinda makes me miss Jimmy T.

oh wait I dont.... because its a very similar senseless conversation(sans sarcasm) and Jimmy at least had the excuse of owning Disney stock.

It goes beyond believing PR. It comes across as brain washing. Maybe it is JT's cousin or something.

someone agrees! lol

 

[Cesar R M]

Well when the best resource you can cite for your argument is "Business.com" then you'e really up a creek without a paddle. Just ask Ned Beady.

you mean this famous image Dave?

Or maybe she's just not the pretentious pessimist that others are.

it depends on how extreme the point of views are.
Some people could defend something even if they were killing kids.
"but but.. the kids were thugs!".

That definitively counts as a illness.. or behavioural problem in the likes of Stockholm syndrome.

 

[Cesar R M]

And we are back to that, again.

Yeah, its funny how we all go back.
It only requires a person like Siren to repeat the same cycle.
And it always seems to be someone who almost looks like to be in Disney PR Payroll (or trolling with some cyclical walls of text).
A cycle than its then revived when someone like you start again the "rebuttals" about whats right and whats not.

Most of the people here complain because they're CUSTOMERS wanting quality or service (which is kinda lacking these days), not shareholders licking the shoes of Iger stockbuybacks.

Me for example..I do not give a carp if Disney pulls amazing in stocks in the next 5 years. But then...I would be worried if the parks were to close or be sold because Mr. Iger went mad with his stockbuybacks and had nothing to show in long term investment.. or worse.. have to go to Tokyo(or Shangai) to get a decent quality time at a Disney based IP Park.

 

[Cesar R M]

I disagree that is the reaction.... My friends kids daughters and their moms cannot get enough frozen. Harry Potter excitement really does not begin until 12 or so based on my kids.

The real issue is why cannot both survive? When Star Wars is built will people say what is Harry Potter? No they both will do great! Good up works. Frozen is good IP. People need to realize it. It has a market and it really is good ip.

I still do not see a lasting appeal in Frozen compared to..let's say.. Harry Potter (and their behemot 7 movies, books and derivatives) or StarWars (7 and more movies.. books.. tons of comics, games..etc..)

but then, time will tell.
People STILL love The Lion King and classics like Beauty and the Beast.

Oh you can't see posts made just a few hours ago, from your ivory tower?
Try 7508 and 7516 for starters.

Why did they say it? Because that's the mentality of posters on this thread, and has been since day one. Anyone who expresses even the tiniest inclining of possibly enjoying this attraction is ridiculed like the fat stuttering kid in 3rd grade.

I have no straw man, because your so-called debate means nothing - I'm talking about the way people with dissenting opinions are treated on this toxic thread. Whether you, personally, are as bad as the rest of the cronies here is irrelevant. This whole thread is a cess pool.

there is a monstrous difference in loving an attraction.. and then claiming its the best thing since sliced bread or the first coming of Jesus while disregarding any criticism over it.
Siren was pretty much the second.

Disregarded things like Frozen deserving a way better place, not just a "retheme" in a tiny area. Then her own contradictions.

I do not see the problems of certain people loving changes or things.
But.. again.. there is a huge difference in having a taste or loving something.. and doing huge PR like stunts like they were paid chills of a company to counter dissent (believe it or not, there are trolls/companies who sell Twitter bots power to counter hashtags.. why I know it? because the moronic president of my country, uses them to counter things that might affect him.. and they are VERY EFFICIENT in blocking or slowing the uproar rides when something really bad happens. So no surprise there might be these type of "services" for forums, blogs..etc..)

I still find it very interesting that Siren seems to be reaping her trolling seeds (aka gone).
the discussion went toxic and now we have englandddg and aefx doing very personal fights.

 

[Jon81uk]

I still do not see a lasting appeal in Frozen compared to..let's say.. Harry Potter (and their behemot 7 movies, books and derivatives) or StarWars (7 and more movies.. books.. tons of comics, games..etc..)

but then, time will tell.
People STILL love The Lion King and classics like Beauty and the Beast.

I don't think the Little Mermaid was that great but it has an attraction, meet & greet and a show across WDW. Some films seem to get lots of attractions and others don't.

I don't see the Frozen Summer stuff continuing for too much longer but I think the film has been popular enough to deserve an attraction equal to Little Mermaid etc.

 

[G00fyDad]

 

[AEfx]

Yeah, its funny how we all go back.
(A)It only requires a person like Siren to repeat the same cycle.
(B)And it always seems to be someone who almost looks like to be in Disney PR Payroll ((C)or trolling with some cyclical walls of text).
(D)A cycle than its then revived when someone like you start again the "rebuttals" about whats right and whats not.

Most of the people here complain because they're CUSTOMERS wanting quality or service (which is kinda lacking these days), (E) not shareholders licking the shoes of Iger stockbuybacks.

Me for example..I do not give a carp if Disney pulls amazing in stocks in the next 5 years. But then...(F)I would be worried if the parks were to close or be sold because Mr. Iger went mad with his stockbuybacks and had nothing to show in long term investment.. or worse.. have to go to Tokyo(or Shangai) to get a decent quality time at a Disney based IP Park.

(Guys, here is a textbook example of what I was discussing. It would be comical if it weren't so criminally un-self-aware, to the point of absurdity.)

Somehow, you have just managed to prove my entire point in one fell swoop.

Let's see, in one relatively brief post you managed to:

A) Point the finger at someone as the enemy of groupthink

B) Accused someone who does not follow the groupthink of being on "Disney PR Payroll"

C) Accused someone of being a "troll" for daring to express opinions contrary to the groupthink

D) Chastised me for bringing up "rebuttals" to the groupthink (how dare I - the groupthink has already ruled!)

E) Again accuse anyone who thinks differently of "licking the shoes of Iger stock buy-backs" (I have never ever once shown support for stock buy-backs, is this the Straw Man that the other dude keeps going on about?)

F) Used preposterous fear mongering to support an abstract fear based on something you don't seem to understand yourself - but it scares you and it should scare everyone! (Warning to not dare contradict the groupthink - dire consequences!)

G) You came into this thread, and made 4 replies in a row to 7 different posts - to "catch up" on making sure you gave everyone who disagreed with you a "what for!" and high-fives to other groupthink members while making more derogatory comments per the above, without making a single unique coherent point of your own.


If I didn't know better, I'd say you did this on purpose - but in any case, thank you for proving exactly the way the groupthink mentality is applied to topics like this.

 

[jmancan]

Okay this is just a theory, but I'm thinking someone at Disney probably knows what they're doing, and considering the pattern of "First fix DHS, then AK" I am hopeful that EPCOT is next on the list. Disney has been hinting at an EPCOT improvement for awhile, even if it is under the guise of shutting down buildings and putting out a few comic books. My theory is that they're using Frozen as an excuse to get more people into EPCOT, as to convince the guys higher up that EPCOT can survive as a park, and if we're lucky, receive new attractions. Will they be good or relevant attractions? Maybe, maybe not. But Disney wouldn't let a park sit dormant like this for this long if they didn't have something up their sleeves in terms of an expansion. It'll be a while (at least into the 2020's) before we get far, I'd think, but it'll happen.

Again, just a theory.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

But it never truly was anything more than a bunch of 80's corporate sponsorship deals behind it.

Yesterday, because of this thread, I spent a significant amount of time searching for EPCOT Center articles on the internet. I have long been aware of the initial economic model and corporate sponsorships, but had not considered corporate interests beyond the perspective of goodwill and edutainment.

Below, is an excerpt from Jim Hill's Why for did Epcot's Future World not turn out as WED had originally planned; original plans for The Land pavilion are discussed:

As these Guests rode along in their balloon, they were to have followed along as this snow became water and then flowed through the other six of "The Land" 's natural habitats. As they floated along in their balloon observing this water from above, these WDW visitors were to be introduced to the four basic components of Nature's Blueprints (i.e. the snowflakes of Winter, the germinating seeds of Spring, the flowers of Summer and the leaves of Fall). And as the water reached the desert habitat and then evaporated, the Guests (aboard their balloon, of course) were to have followed this water vapor high into the atmosphere. Where it then was to have reformed as snow.

You get the idea, right? The never-ending cycle of Nature. How we are all interconnected. More importantly, how fragile our ecosystem actually is. Which is why man must do everything he can to preserve the balance of nature. Make sure that this cycle is never interrupted.

Which was a great message for when "The Land" was supposed to be sponsored by a lumber company (which wanted Disney to help get across the message that they were doing everything they could - i.e. replanting forests after they had harvested all of the trees - to be an environmentally responsible corporation). But when that would-be Epcot sponsor dropped out and Kraft Foods then offered to underwrite the construction of this Future World pavilion ... Well, the central story, the underlying message, even the overall look of "The Land" now had to be radically reworked.

The article reminded me of the scene from A Christmas Story, when Ralphie realizes his secret decoder is nothing more than a means for interpreting "a crummy commercial." Although optimistic, the pavilions of Epcot Center told stories from the perspectives of Disney and the underwriting sponsors.

I loved my Epcot Center of the 1980s and still appreciate attractions like Living with the Land. However, instead of attractions, it seems as though I fell in love with immersive commercials.

 

[matt9112]

Correct exactly, personally I keep thinking "you can make this in WDW, there's room in MK for it, just look north of Small World & Tangled Bathrooms!"

God people WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO prove to people that the MK needs no more attractions there are THREE other parks....two are falling apart.

 

[matt9112]

Wow! The new Frozen ride looks so amazing -- it's beautiful. This is such a huge improvement over those gosh awful looking dated trolls and random ill fitting oil rig scene. The Norway Pavilion will be the most popular attraction in Epcot -- this is great news for Norway. Can't wait for 2016!

All of this off one one picture.....mkay.

And, Disney -- please don't manipulate or mess this up with FP+ only, it will be a PR disaster.

 

[GhostHost1000]

In a nutshell that's it.

The IP deserves a top notch attraction in a suitably themed environment. But most of all in a suitable park. This isn't it.

The MK is most suitable but that's been discussed ad nauseum. DHS needs a proper attendance boost - possibly more so than Epcot - and has plenty of suitable areas ready for a Frozen area. It could have had one by year end. In a purpose built area with a capacity to match its popularity.

A-magical-freakin-MEN!

 

[PhotoDave219]

God people WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO prove to people that the MK needs no more attractions there are THREE other parks....two are falling apart.

You'll never get that point apart. Lord knows I've tried.

 

[twebber55]

Just gonna say I would've loved a big Frozen expansion in DHS. There was a time where I was actually under the delusion that Disney would have no choice but to go big for a movie that was so successful. That fantasy didn't last very long.

I wonder if their thinking is
we re doing a big Pixar expansion along with Star wars over the next five years so no need for Frozen there, in addition they ll probably keep the frozen summer stuff for a while any ways