Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

[lazyboy97o]

But Anna and Elsa are cartoons and so is Snow White and Mulan, and Mary Poppins is a fictional character. Neither of them actually live in those respective countries. I don't see how that's any different, Disney can say the landscape in which Frozen takes place looks very much like Norway, which it does. In the end all those characters live in drawn world that mimic a part of the real world. The fact that Disney called Anna and Elsa's land Arendele should not really make that BIG a difference.

The stories of Snow White and Mulan come from Germany and China. Fairy tales are big part of Germany history and culture. I've asked this question before, but should Pinocchio's Daring Journey be built in the Germany Pavilion? The Alpine aesthetic of Pinocchio looks far more like the Germany Pavilion with its Bavarian influences than the heavily Venetian influenced Italy Pavilion.

 

[DisDan]

The stories of Snow White and Mulan come from Germany and China.

Your splitting hairs, does it really matter that their stories are of a particular origin? These stories are told visually through hand drawn or computer animation. What we associate with the characters are their story and visuals through the imagination of the animators.

 

[DisDan]

Anyhow, point is the characters and land in Frozen are as similar to Norway as those in Mulan and Snow White are to the respective countries which they are representing.. IMO.

 

[spacemt354]

Your splitting hairs, does it really matter that their stories are of a particular origin? These stories are told visually through hand drawn or computer animation. What we associate with the characters are their story and visuals through the imagination of the animators.

You're* and yes the origin absolutely does matter when they are being placed in pavilions that represent the actual countries the characters come from.

 

[spacemt354]

Anyhow, point is the characters and land in Frozen are as similar to Norway as those in Mulan and Snow White are to the respective countries which they are representing.. IMO.

How are they "as similar"?

 

[DisDan]

How are they "as similar"?

Let me put it another way, when kids watch Snow White, Mulan, Cinderella, Pinocchio, etc they are not aware of what country the stories originated in. What they see is a Cartoon in a fantasy world and the fact that these cartoons happen to visually represent a country or culture is irrelevant to them. The hand drawn or computer animated worlds the artist gave them were designed to look like a particular place in the real world. What I am saying is the same thing can apply to Frozen if you look at it objectively for what it is. The world that Anna and Elsa live in was drawn to look like Norway. The clothes that are worn, the mythical characters depicted in it are also from Norse mythology (Trolls). That is what I meant.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Your splitting hairs, does it really matter that their stories are of a particular origin? These stories are told visually through hand drawn or computer animation. What we associate with the characters are their story and visuals through the imagination of the animators.

Identifying cultural origin is hardly splitting hairs. Does Pinocchio's Daring Journey belong in the Germany Pavilion?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Let me put it another way, when kids watch Snow White, Mulan, Cinderella, Pinocchio, etc they are not aware of what country the stories originated in. What they see is a Cartoon in a fantasy world and the fact that these cartoons happen to visually represent a country or culture is irrelevant to them. The hand drawn or computer animated worlds the artist gave them were designed to look like a particular place in the real world. What I am saying is the same thing can apply to Frozen if you look at it objectively for what it is. The world that Anna and Elsa live in was drawn to look like Norway. The clothes that are worn, the mythical characters depicted in it are also from Norse mythology (Trolls). That is what I meant.

If this country of origin is unimportant, then there is no need or impetus to put the characters in World Showcase. The two are totally alien to each other, as good a fit as a spaceship in Frontierland.

 

[DisDan]

If this country of origin is unimportant, then there is no need or impetus to put the characters in World Showcase. The two are totally alien to each other, as good a fit as a spaceship in Frontierland.

On this I agree, but that was not my argument. My argument was to the comment above that Mulan or Snow White would be a better fit in the China / Germany pavilions. I am saying if Characters are going to be in the WS then Anna and Elsa have as much a right to be in Norway as the other toons do in their respective countries.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

as good a fit as a spaceship in Frontierland.

But I thought space was the final frontier?

 

[Eric1955]

Let me put it another way, when kids watch Snow White, Mulan, Cinderella, Pinocchio, etc they are not aware of what country the stories originated in. What they see is a Cartoon in a fantasy world and the fact that these cartoons happen to visually represent a country or culture is irrelevant to them. The hand drawn or computer animated worlds the artist gave them were designed to look like a particular place in the real world. What I am saying is the same thing can apply to Frozen if you look at it objectively for what it is. The world that Anna and Elsa live in was drawn to look like Norway. The clothes that are worn, the mythical characters depicted in it are also from Norse mythology (Trolls). That is what I meant.

Imagine Disney did an animated film inspired by Anne of Green Gables but never specified in the film that it was set in Canada. Then after the film was successful Disney decided to put an Anne of Green Gables ride in the American pavilion. If the scenery in the film looked American it still wouldn't fit the pavilion and more importantly it would be an insult to Canada.

I don't understand how a movie inspired by a Danish fairy tale fits in the Norway pavilion. If this was the Scandinavia pavilion I could at least understand Frozen going in. I wouldn't like it but It would at least make some thematic sense.

 

[spacemt354]

Let me put it another way, when kids watch Snow White, Mulan, Cinderella, Pinocchio, etc they are not aware of what country the stories originated in. What they see is a Cartoon in a fantasy world and the fact that these cartoons happen to visually represent a country or culture is irrelevant to them. The hand drawn or computer animated worlds the artist gave them were designed to look like a particular place in the real world. What I am saying is the same thing can apply to Frozen if you look at it objectively for what it is. The world that Anna and Elsa live in was drawn to look like Norway. The clothes that are worn, the mythical characters depicted in it are also from Norse mythology (Trolls). That is what I meant.

Okay, then why bother to place Snow White in Germany? Or Mulan in China?

If a cartoon has background images that look like Germany, can said cartoon be allowed in Germany simply based on its aesthetic appearance and not based on the actual country the story takes place?

 

[DisDan]

Imagine Disney did an animated film inspired by Anne of Green Gables but never specified in the film that it was set in Canada. Then after the film was successful Disney decided to put an Anne of Green Gables ride in the American pavilion. If the scenery in the film looked American it still wouldn't fit the pavilion and more importantly it would be an insult to Canada.

I don't understand how a movie inspired by a Danish fairy tale fits in the Norway pavilion. If this was the Scandinavia pavilion I could at least understand Frozen going in. I wouldn't like it but It would at least make some thematic sense.

Frozen is far removed from the Danish fairy tale you claim it is based on. Frozen is loosely based on the Snow Queen just like it's visuals and mythology are loosely based in Norway. This movie was NOT the Snow Queen, I wish people would stop using that argument.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Your splitting hairs, does it really matter that their stories are of a particular origin? These stories are told visually through hand drawn or computer animation. What we associate with the characters are their story and visuals through the imagination of the animators.

Snow White and Milan are part of their respective country's history and culture. They have an intellectual depth and gravitas that comes with the weight of history that "Frozen" fails to bring to the World Showcase table.

Shoving Arendelle into the Norwegian Pavilion is the epitamy of shallow, crass commercialism. And the exact opposite of artistic integrity and intellectualism.

America's critical thinking skills have devolved to, "I want! NOW!"

 

[lazyboy97o]

On this I agree, but that was not my argument. My argument was to the comment above that Mulan or Snow White would be a better fit in the China / Germany pavilions. I am saying if Characters are going to be in the WS then Anna and Elsa have as much a right to be in Norway as the other toons do in their respective countries.

Except that Snow White and Mulan are not being placed based on their looks. Should Mulan also go into the Japan Pavilion? Japanese culture is very much derived from Chinese culture. The look of the film could pass as Japanese to most, especially little kids. And why so afraid to declare Pinocchio's Daring Journey a good fit for the Germany Pavilion?

Frozen is far removed from the Danish fairy tale you claim it is based on. Frozen is loosely based on the Snow Queen just like it's visuals and mythology are loosely based in Norway. This movie was NOT the Snow Queen, I wish people would stop using that argument.

That far removal means that Frozen is American, not Norwegian.

 

[DisDan]

Okay, then why bother to place Snow White in Germany? Or Mulan in China?

If a cartoon has background images that look like Germany, can said cartoon be allowed in Germany simply based on its aesthetic appearance and not based on the actual country the story takes place?

Look, I get it, those fictional stories are based in real places in the world. The culture and landscapes represented in those films as well as the people and clothing all point to the fact that they belong to a specific region in the real world. I am not trying to discredit that all I am trying to say is Frozen can fit in Norway much the same way.

 

[spacemt354]

On this I agree, but that was not my argument. My argument was to the comment above that Mulan or Snow White would be a better fit in the China / Germany pavilions. I am saying if Characters are going to be in the WS then Anna and Elsa have as much a right to be in Norway as the other toons do in their respective countries.

It's not about toons. The toons are placed in their country of origin. There is no Arendelle Pavilion. There's a Norway pavilion.

Let's say there was an Austrian pavilion. It has similar architecture to Germany. Would you be okay with Snow White being placed in Austria? Even though the story came from Germany? That's the key point.

 

[SnarkyMonkey]

No, I'm pretty sure there was one at the exit of the maelstrom ride at least the last time I went on it,

Was the last time you rode 1999?

I know they were there back in the late 1990's, but I think they have been gone for a long time. (This was before fast pass. The old fast pass machines may have gone into the area where he travel agents used to be.)

 

[Disneyhead'71]

OK, I'll make this real simple and use small words.

Were the people of Germany telling the story of Snow White before Disney made the movie? Yes.

Were the people of China telling the story of Mulan before Disney made the movie. Yes.

Were the people of Norway telling the story of Elsa before Disney made the movie? No.

Game Over.

 

[DisDan]

Fair points everyone, no need to all jump on me at once now. I think Frozen fits just fine in Norway, that's my opinion. Do I think Frozen deserved more than being shoved into WS? Yes, I do. Do I wish they had dedicated a bigger presence in another park? Yes, I do. Do I think it is such a stretch putting Frozen in Norway? No I don't.