Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

[BigTxEars]

Yes they would spend hundreds of millions NOW, but then they would make that back easily and more. Why do you think Universal expanded Harry Potter? They made an incredible amount of money from the first area. If you think Disney wouldn't be able to make a great amount of money from a fleshed out Frozen area that would easily make back its cost and much, MUCH more you're insane. Possibly even more money than this overlay if it included a restaurant on the level of BoG. Actually that sounds familiar....... Oh yeah, it's because this kind of area might actually get built in Tokyo where they have a management team that understands how to run theme parks. Big investment, even bigger return.

Then if Disney runs on pure greed (as is so often posted on here) why did they not build "Frozen Land" ? Why did their greed not drive them to spend more if they could make more? Call them many things, but they know how to squeeze a dollar out of folks

Disney has lots of money of course, but operating budgets are not based on how much money you have as a company. It's much like you own budget, do you base that budget on how much money you have or how much you earn and bring home each check? The parks are run on operating budgets not Uncle Scrooge's money pit.

And I have yet to see anybody on here with solid info on the operating budget of WDW or the parks as separate operating units. Until then anyone that tries to guess at matters is doing just that, guessing.

 

[Mike S]

Then if Disney runs on pure greed (as is so often posted on here) why did they not build "Frozen Land" ? Why did their greed not drive them to spend more if they could make more? Call them many things, but they know how to squeeze a dollar out of folks

Disney has lots of money of course, but operating budgets are not based on how much money you have as a company. It's much like you own budget, do you base that budget on how much money you have or how much you earn and bring home each check? The parks are run on operating budgets not Uncle Scrooge's money pit.

And I have yet to see anybody on here with solid info on the operating budget of WDW or the parks as separate operating units. Until then anyone that tries to guess at matters is doing just that, guessing.

Disney I feel runs on a combination of greed and cheapness. They want all the money but they're not willing to spend what is necessary to make something great that will attract all the people to spend tons of money. On the second bolded I think @ParentsOf4 would be better able to answer that than I ever could.

 

[John]

You two just stop before Steve puts you both in a corner.

 

[BigTxEars]

Disney I feel runs on a combination of greed and cheapness. They want all the money but they're not willing to spend what is necessary to make something great that will attract all the people to spend tons of money. On the second bolded I think @ParentsOf4 would be better able to answer that than I ever could.

Then they have to be either much more greedy than cheap or much cheaper than greedy, they can't really be both in this matter IMO. Not doubt they want the biggest return for the least investment, who does not.

 

[xstech25]

/\ No matter what Disney does people on these boards will always find something to complain about.

People were crying for new attractions at DAK. Disney announces a massive new area with 2 big new rides, a nighttime spectacular show, and a nighttime safari. People cry that they don't like it.

People were crying that Toy Story Mania's line is too long and DHS needs new attractions. Disney plans to expand capacity on Toy Story Mania, announces that they are going to build Star Wars attractions, and are removing the Backlot Tour for new attractions as well. People cry that Toy Story Mania expansion is a waste of space and money, its going to take too long to build Star Wars, and they don't like the other expansion (when they don't even know what it is yet).

People were crying that Downtown Disney is not cohesive and out of date. Disney announces that they are doing a big rebuild of the whole place. People cry why change it and they don't like it.

People complain that the castle courtyard area is way too crowded during fireworks. Disney re-does the whole area to make more viewing/walking space. People complain that the construction is an adherence to the parks atmosphere and also they are somehow cheapening the park (another thing, once again, that is not done yet).

People complain that DVC doesn't have enough room availability making it difficult to get a room. Disney builds lots of new DVC rooms. People complain that they are focusing too much on DVC.

The list goes on...and on...and on.

 

[wdisney9000]

"IMO the building of Frozen at WS will do exactly like you posted, draw kids into an area they may or may not have wanted to visit before."

Do you think that Frozen in WS is going to draw kids who might not otherwise want to go to WS? Yes or no? I think it will and I think that is a good thing for the families involved.

How exactly does "drawing more kids into an area" make WS better? Its the same kids and families who did not want to visit the pavilion prior to Frozen being there. They still wont care about Norway and its history or culture. They will be there ONLY because there is a Frozen ride, nothing else. After they ride, they will leave.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think you are completely ignorant on how the world works.

Sure they could afford to, but they have to manage their capital in ways that maximize their profits because that's what businesses do. A Frozen land may not be a bad idea, but that would cost hundreds of millions of dollars they are spending on other major projects that they have already designed and green-lit.

I could go out and buy a Mustang right now if I wanted to, that doesn't make it a good idea.

You do t maximize profits by artificially limiting your profit potential.

 

[Cesar R M]

That's been one of my arguments against the makeover all along! Putting a ride based on a phenom like Frozen in that tiny area...that's plain nuts!!!! It'll be a logistical nightmare! I couldn't believe TDO could be that stupid...

Well, we live and learn...

they will probably use the overloaded area as PR mechanism.
"OMG.. LOOK HOW POPULAR FROZEN IS!. BEST THING EVEEEEEEEEEEER!"

 

[wdisney9000]

This is a company that actually created something the public didn't know it wanted. They should still be doing that. I'm not stupid, I understand there is significant challenges facing WDW now, competition, ever changing technology, a more sensitive global market, but just giving people what they want, all the time, is not only pandering to the obvious, it leaves the innovation and unique storytelling that Disney built this empire with. At the very least, I think that there needs to be a balance between the real world realities of doing business and honoring the grand scheme that brought us here in the first place.

I'm not trying to argue, not at all, I appreciate your enthusiasm for WDW, I really do, it's just that I've seen what they were capable of doing, and I just wish it would get back to some of that early "magic" again.

Ill have what he's having. (great post)

 

[unkadug]

The problem though is that ignorance is a celebrated position in the theme park fan community.

I have no idea what you are talking about and everyone agrees with me.

 

[Cesar R M]

When you think about it, it's not surprising how slow they have been. Even had they expected the film to be a success and prepared, they still probably would drag their feet. While a much more ambitious project, Avatar was announced almost exactly 3 years ago (September 2011) and has only just this year begun moving dirt (with still no vertical construction I gather and not opening until 2017 at the earliest, and Iger initially claimed it would be finished in 2015).

Only way I can imagine them finishing by 2015.. is that every rock-worth and buildings are being build prefabricated somewhere else. And they will only assemble in the park once the lower foundations, cabling and infrastructure is complete.

 

[Mike S]

/\ No matter what Disney does people on these boards will always find something to complain about.

People were crying for new attractions at DAK. Disney announces a massive new area with 2 big new rides, a nighttime spectacular show, and a nighttime safari. People cry that they don't like it.

People have a right to say they don't like the idea of Avatar. Personally I'm happy we're getting something and to me it somewhat fits. The only complaint I will have is if they pull the same thing they did with Fantasyland and open it in stages.

People were crying that Toy Story Mania's line is too long and DHS needs new attractions. Disney plans to expand capacity on Toy Story Mania, announces that they are going to build Star Wars attractions, and are removing the Backlot Tour for new attractions as well. People cry that Toy Story Mania expansion is a waste of space and money, its going to take too long to build Star Wars, and they don't like the other expansion (when they don't even know what it is yet).

Saying that SS1 could be better used as a new dark ride is a legitimate complaint, but I think most people (like myself) would turn out fine with it if the rest of what will happen to DHS is amazing. People said they wouldn't like the other expansion if it was only something like Toy Story Playland which I think is also a legitimate concern but again I think most people are waiting to see exactly what will be done with Pixar. Saying Star Wars will take too long to me is only natural anticipation imo. We will be waiting years for it to finally be open and will most likely have that "I just can't wait" feeling that people get when they're excited for something. Once again, natural.

People were crying that Downtown Disney is not cohesive and out of date. Disney announces that they are doing a big rebuild of the whole place. People cry why change it and they don't like it.

Don't care at all about Downtown Disney or what they do with it so I'll leave it at that.

People complain that the castle courtyard area is way too crowded during fireworks. Disney re-does the whole area to make more viewing/walking space. People complain that the construction is an adherence to the parks atmosphere and also they are somehow cheapening the park (another thing, once again, that is not done yet).

The construction is an eyesore and I think people have every right to say how they feel about it. I just want it to be done already so we have that extra space and to see what it will be like when finished.

People complain that DVC doesn't have enough room availability making it difficult to get a room. Disney builds lots of new DVC rooms. People complain that they are focusing too much on DVC.

The list goes on...and on...and on.

Don't remember anyone complaining about lack of DVC on here but then again I mostly avoid the DVC topics because I simply don't care about it. Imo the money would be better used on additional attractions for the parks.

 

[BigTxEars]

How exactly does "drawing more kids into an area" make WS better? Its the same kids and families who did not want to visit the pavilion prior to Frozen being there. They still wont care about Norway and its history or culture. They will be there ONLY because there is a Frozen ride, nothing else. After they ride, they will leave.

Where did I say it would make WS better? What post # was that?

Re-read what I posted and then ask me a question based on that and I will be happy to reply. I have no reply to this because I never said it or even implied it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I have no idea what you are talking about and everyone agrees with me.

Throughout the theme park fan community there are lots of people who proclaim to not know or care about any number of aspects. It's a position they argue more people need to take, that concepts like theme or quality of service are unimportant and should rightly go unnoticed.

 

[BigTxEars]

People have a right to say they don't like the idea of Avatar. Personally I'm happy we're getting something and to me it somewhat fits. The only complaint I will have is if they pull the same thing they did with Fantasyland and open it in stages.

Saying that SS1 could be better used as a new dark ride is a legitimate complaint, but I think most people (like myself) would turn out fine with it if the rest of what will happen to DHS is amazing. People said they wouldn't like the other expansion of it was only something like Toy Story Playland which I think is also a legitimate concern but again I think most people are waiting to see exactly what will be done with Pixar. Saying Star Wars will take too long to me is only natural anticipation imo. We will be waiting years for it to finally be open and will most likely have that "I just can't wait" feeling that people get when they're excited for something. Once again, natural.

Don't care at all about Downtown Disney or what they do with it so I'll leave it at that.

The construction is an eyesore and I think people have every right to say how they feel about it. I just want it to be done already so we have that extra space and to see what it will be like when finished.

Don't remember anyone complaining about lack of DVC on here but then again I mostly avoid the DVC topics because I simply don't care about it. Imo the money would be better used on additional attractions for the parks.

So you only care about parts of the resort that interest you, fair enough but that means others do as well. Some of us who are fine with Olaf rolling into WS are not attached to the current ride. It's as simple as that and not related to us not understanding the meaning of WS, being on Pixie Dust or being paid by Disney as internet plants sent here to defend Mickey and his buddies.

 

[wdisney9000]

Where did I say it would make WS better? What post # was that?

Re-read what I posted and then ask me a question based on that and I will be happy to reply. I have no reply to this because I never said it or even implied it.

You said "it will be better for the families involved". I wasnt trying to mix up your words, sorry about that. But if you assume that it will be better for families involved, isnt that the same as saying that its improving WS? If you mean its only improving enjoyment for families that otherwise wouldnt visit the pavilion, whats truly being gained? For every family that likes it, theres a family that wont like it. Its more of a lateral move on Disneys behalf.

 

[BigTxEars]

You said "it will be better for the families involved". I wasnt trying to mix up your words, sorry about that. But if you assume that it will be better for families involved, isnt that the same as saying that its improving WS? If you mean its only improving enjoyment for families that otherwise wouldnt visit the pavilion, whats truly being gained? For every family that likes it, theres a family that wont like it. Its more of a lateral move on Disneys behalf.

That is what I meant, the families who had little ones who did not want to goto WS before might very well want to go now. That is a win for those families IMO. Anytime a family can agree to do something together where each member is on board that is a win. Not to mention if the kids want to go to Norway then mom and dad can slip over to Mexico for a margarita, win win, win!

I do not think it will "improve" WS as that is too subjective a subject to qualify with a simple yes or no answer. It will improve it for our family, other families it will not.

I think more families will like it than don't like it, I would guess Disney thinks the same or they would not be doing it. No way to know for sure till it opens but I think looking at WS numbers before, during and after the Frozen M&G are a good indicator. I would guess they looked at those and they showed a spike at WS when the M&G occurred. WDW can't change the brand of toliet paper without making some of their 40 million guess unhappy, just the nature of their business.

 

[wdisney9000]

I have no reason to argue with you, I think the posts speak for themselves

A few of your posts speak about the business aspect of the decision to put Frozen in Norway.

they have to manage their capital in ways that maximize their profits because that's what businesses do. A Frozen land may not be a bad idea, but that would cost hundreds of millions of dollars they are spending on other major projects that they have already designed and green-lit.

This kind of thinking is not how Disneyland and WDW were created. What if Walt only focused on profits and didnt take the risk of going against the grain? This website would not exist and we wouldnt be here having this discussion. Im not tryin to conjure up thoughts of dear old Uncle Walt either, just his extremely unique approach that all the accountants assumed would fail miserably. The same approach that built the empire that is TWDC of today. The financial decisions made by current execs are the exact opposite of what made the parks so successful in the first place and are not justified by simply claiming "thats what businesses do". Walt did the exact opposite of what businesses do, hence the success.

 

[unkadug]

Throughout the theme park fan community there are lots of people who proclaim to not know or care about any number of aspects. It's a position they argue more people need to take, that concepts like theme or quality of service are unimportant and should rightly go unnoticed.

Sorry you missed the irony of my reply. Perhaps I should have included the irony smiley.

 

[wdisney9000]

the irony smiley.

I like the irony smiley. Im getting sick of the Orson Welles clapping gif though. Just stop people.