Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

[englanddg]

SW is amazing in that regard, so much going on. It's like visual Red Bull, the really big can they sell....

That is the best description of the ride I've ever heard.

Cheers!

 

[BigTxEars]

That's all Bay can do.

Popcorn movies.

And, that's fine. I enjoyed Independance Day and MIB, etc. Popcorn movies (not just sci fi ones) can be tons of fun.

But, that doesn't mean that you should willy nilly mess with an existing IP that would attract Gen X and Gen Y moviegoers who grew up with the stuff just "because"...

I...hate...Bay.

ID4 is the still the best alien invasion movie ever, a lot of that has to do with Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum though. But overall it was a very well down movie, even the cheesy motivational speech given by the POTUS works in that movie for me

 

[lazyboy97o]

It had robots.

It had dinosaurs.

It has DINOSAUR ROBOTS!

Nuff said.

(no, not enough said, it was bad...really bad...and I don't even have to have seen it to know that it was)

I'll eventually watch it when I can get it on hulu or netflix or something, and am bored.

But, no way would I make a movie night out of it.

I'd say if you're trying to cure boredom a long, boring movie won't help the situation. But since that is just my wrong opinion, I wont. The film is a delight because it made lots of money.

 

[englanddg]

I'd say if you're trying to cure boredom a long, boring movie won't help the situation. But since that is just my wrong opinion, I wont. The film is a delight because it made lots of money.

I'll just slap some loose feminist lingo here and say that Frozen was amazing as well.

And some loose environmental message here and say Avatar was amazing as well.

And...well, list goes on.

The Box Office isn't the best indicator of a good movie. Just a spectacle.

(granted, Frozen, while not great, is a million times better than anything Bay has ever done)

When someone sees a wreck off the side of the road, they slow down to watch (rubberneck)...that doesn't mean it's a good thing.

 

[BigTxEars]

I don't want an answer? I've been asking you for answers for like 3 pages now!

You're the one who keeps saying the answers to my questions are irrelevant. They're only irrelevant to you because the answers deflate your argument.

And you just furthered my point. You don't realize these historical and cultural items are in world showcase because you're purposefully being oblivious to them to fuel your agenda

Go back like 25 pages or so, I asked someone to tell me what in Mexico is educational. I picked that because it is the first country we always enter. Feel free to list it cause I ain't seeing it. I see themed building with retail and food spaces in them. I see a boat ride with talking ducks. I don't think shot glasses and cheesy tshirts are Mexican cultural lesson....but I live in SE Texas so maybe I am biased since the Anglo and Mexican cultures here are pretty well mixed

Now if you tell me in Mexico it is in the tequila cave I am willing to take you at your word and double check myself to make sure I was wrong

And just for the record I love eating in Mexico (and drinking) for the theme but the Mexcian food here is way better

I answered your question three times now. Norway and WS do not need a detailed and documented historical link to a character or group of characters for them to "fit" in that pavilion IMO. I have given examples and reason why I think this. Feel free to go back and read those or don't, it is up to you.

 

[englanddg]

Go back like 25 pages or so, I asked someone to tell me what in Mexico is educational. I picked that because it is the first country we always enter. Feel free to list it cause I ain't seeing it. I see themed building with retail and food spaces in them. I see a boat ride with talking ducks. I don't think shot glasses and cheesy tshirts are Mexican cultural lesson....but I live in SE Texas so maybe I am biased since the Anglo and Mexican cultures here are pretty well mixed

Now if you tell me in Mexico it is in the tequila cave I am willing to take you at your word and double check myself to make sure I was wrong

And just for the record I love eating in Mexico (and drinking) for the theme but the Mexcian food here is way better

I answered your question three times now. Norway and WS do not need a detailed and documented historical link to a character or group of characters for them to "fit" in that pavilion IMO. I have given examples and reason why I think this. Feel free to go back and read those or don't, it is up to you.

Donald in a sombrero.

<drops mic>

 

[Siren]

That's still LOTR territory, though - backgrounds. Unless there is more? If not, it's really obscure territory as it points out in the article itself, unlike Frozen which has cultural ties aside from background images.

Look, this back and forth is doing nothing but punting jabs at this point - I mean, we've gone on for three posts right here alone debating an absurd concept that doesn't exist. That's because the level of discourse here is happening on two different planes - one where some folks are all amped up to all heck in a furor that I really hate to use such loaded language but the only thing I can compare it to is religious belief, and the other where folks are "eh, it's not ideal, but..." who are being made out to be some Frozen-fanboys when it's certainly not the case (again, there is a lot to this thread but I can't recall one person who has said "YIPEEEE!!!!" over this).

Nowhere have I, or anyone else that I have read, said that this was the BEST option, or the one I would have picked.

Some folks can't comprehend the fact that one can hold that thought, that they could have done better, even MUCH better, yet not believe the theme of Frozen is so "way off base" to associate with Norway, and somehow "ruinous" to Epcot's integrity.

You folks have said it repeatedly yourself (there have been plenty of "End of story." and "Period!" declarations in this thread, as well as "Well, anyone that thinks this isn't a travesty is not a TRUE FAN!" nonsense), there is no middle ground, and everyone who doesn't think this is the end of the World as we know it can't possibly have any good reason for not being totally outraged.

I'm not "Pro-" Frozen in Norway, and again, I don't see many folks who are. I'd much rather they build a 300M attraction somewhere else. But I don't think that the obvious connection the public has embraced about Norway and Frozen (which, in any case no matter what your opinion on how it got there, or even if it's valid, one cannot deny that it now exists) is some "way out crazy" concept, either. I bet if you did some searching, you'd find folks (pejorative or not) suggesting this possibility since the film came out - it may not be what folks like but it wasn't some far-out, from-left-field, blindisde thing, either.

As a side effect, Disney gets a "new" ride experience in 18 months and not five years, and while I will miss Maelstrom - I look forward to seeing what they do. And I cannot deny that it's going to be incredibly popular to park guests, which is why like many of you I share the capacity concerns, and I hope that is addressed in the process. Do I wish instead this was going to be a "journey in a ride over the sights and sounds of Norway" and would that be most appropriate? Yes, but anyone who is not a complete idiot knows that Disney is never going to build rides like that again (the most would be a half-butt Soarin' mini-clone screen-based job).

It's called being reasonable, folks. If you review this thread, you'll see the bar has kept moving and moving - from "this is wrong because characters in Epcot!" to "this is wrong because characters in Epcot attractions" to "this is wrong because characters in Epcot attractions based on fantasy"; from "Frozen has ZERO NONE connection to Norway" to "Frozen has little to do with Norway" to "Frozen doesn't have enough to do with Norway"...

We get it. I get it. I just don't think it's a crazy idea, it's certainly not ideal, and I wish folks could just have the Mickey's to say "I just hate the idea of Frozen in Norway!" instead of winding up the crazy dial with hyperbolic justifications and accusations of "TRAITOR!" should one have a more middle-of-the-road view of this situation in particular.

I'm not jumping in the middle of this discussion, as I have no horse in this race. I just want to chime in here quickly before I call it a night.

Again, I agree with everything written here.

This discussion is mostly futile because you are attempting to argue a macro perspective (of which I share) against a micro perspective. You will never see eye to eye, with those who cannot see beyond their own wants and needs -- they are not prepared to acknowledge all of the external factors and variables that become the driving force behind the decision making of most companies.

Instead, they (micro) are solely inclined to argue their extremely personal and very subjective needs and wants on the premise that it is for the greater good of mankind to the bitter end, it is very personal to them -- but they do not represent the majority, not by a long shot. I do give you kudos for trying though.

Overall, I still think the dialogue here is a very good thing because it allows people to vent their feelings and it's a fun read. Goodnight all.

 

[BigTxEars]

Donald in a sombrero.

<drops mic>

You know that ride is pretty good IMO, but after a few margaritas it's even better. I could just hug that duck when I ride it like that......

 

[englanddg]

Overall, I still think the dialogue here is a very good thing because it allows people to vent their feelings and it's a fun read. Goodnight all.

I'm only reposting this because this is EXACTLY what being a member of these forums is about!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Go back like 25 pages or so, I asked someone to tell me what in Mexico is educational. I picked that because it is the first country we always enter. Feel free to list it cause I ain't seeing it. I see themed building with retail and food spaces in them. I see a boat ride with talking ducks. I don't think shot glasses and cheesy tshirts are Mexican cultural lesson....but I live in SE Texas so maybe I am biased since the Anglo and Mexican cultures here are pretty well mixed

Now if you tell me in Mexico it is in the tequila cave I am willing to take you at your word and double check myself to make sure I was wrong

And just for the record I love eating in Mexico (and drinking) for the theme but the Mexcian food here is way better

I answered your question three times now. Norway and WS do not need a detailed and documented historical link to a character or group of characters for them to "fit" in that pavilion IMO. I have given examples and reason why I think this. Feel free to go back and read those or don't, it is up to you.

How about an emphasis on history and traditional urban forms that go beyond American stereotypes of a desert wasteland torn apart by laziness, poverty and drug wars. Food that still pushes a bit beyond Tex-Mex staples. Actual Mexicans to converse with.

You've never answered the repeated questions of how the story would be fundamentally changed if not in a Norwegian-inspired setting.

I'm not jumping in the middle of this discussion, as I have no horse in this race. I just want to chime in here quickly before I call it a night.

Again, I agree with everything written here.

This discussion is mostly futile because you are attempting to argue a macro perspective (of which I share) against a micro perspective. You will never see eye to eye, with those who cannot see beyond their own wants and needs -- they are not prepared to acknowledge all of the external factors and variables that become the driving force behind the decision making of most companies.

Instead, they (micro) are solely inclined to argue their extremely personal and very subjective needs and wants on the premise that it is for the greater good of mankind to the bitter end, it is very personal to them -- but they do not represent the majority, not by a long shot. I do give you kudos for trying though.

Overall, I still think the dialogue here is a very good thing because it allows people to vent their feelings and it's a fun read. Goodnight all.

There are no bigger issues or pressing external issues. The decision is about again exploiting Frozen as quickly and cheaply as possible. The announcement and follow up comments don't even bother with connecting the film to Norway.

 

[englanddg]

How about an emphasis on history and traditional urban forms that go beyond American stereotypes of a desert wasteland torn apart by laziness, poverty and drug wars. Food that still pushes a bit beyond Tex-Mex staples. Actual Mexicans to converse with.

You've never answered the repeated questions of how the story would be fundamentally changed if not in a Norwegian-inspired setting.


There are no bigger issues. Disney has no respect for theme parks or people who visit them. The decision is about again exploiting Frozen as quickly and cheaply as possible.

Well...

It's a Danish story by a Danish author with an opening theme:



That is a Danish traditional folk song.

But it's NORWAY! Because WDI SAID SO!

Because all Scandinavians are the same!

Screw cultural experiences. Austrians are German too, and Scots are Brits (ok, they just voted that they are, but that's aside the point).

It is LAZY to slap Frozen here. I don't mind it, and if they do it well, I'll be the first to say it was well done. But, to remove a ride that talked about the PEOPLE and HISTORY of Norway (that was its role) in such an amazing way, and replace it with Frozen just to hike park attendance (which, it won't in a few years...Frozen, like Avatar, was a fad)?

LAZY!

It's the same sort of lazy thinking that makes them think that Avatarland will "save" Animal Kingdom, when there is so much else WRONG with the park that needs addressed first.

 

[englanddg]

You know that ride is pretty good IMO, but after a few margaritas it's even better. I could just hug that duck when I ride it like that......

It's not a bad ride, not at all.

The original was more "educational", but the latter is ok.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I don't know if it's been mentioned before, but has anyone made the connection between this and Stitch's Great Escape? When I said history was repeating itself with Lion King, what I really should have said was Lilo and Stitch.

LoS was a hit in 2002 and as a result Disney wanted Stitch's presence in the parks ASAP. Rather than build a new ride, Disney did a makoever of an existing one and as a result we lost a unique, land relevant attraction (Alien Encounter) in favour of something to show the latest hit. We all know the results.

What's happening with Maelstrom is nothing new, and not just because it's a case of putting characters into Epcot. I doubt Disney has learned its lesson.

 

[englanddg]

I don't know if it's been mentioned before, but has anyone made the connection between this and Stitch's Great Escape? When I said history was repating itself with Lion King, what I really should have said was Lilo and Stitch.

LoS was a hit in 2002 and as a result Disney wanted Stitch's presence in the parks ASAP. Rather than build a new ride, Disney did a makoever of an existing one and as a result we lost a unique, land relevant attraction (Alien Encounter) in favour of something to show the latest hit. We all know the results.

What's happening with Maelstrom is nothing new, and not just because it's a case of putting characters into Epcot. I doubt Disney has learned its lesson.

That's...interesting to ponder.

Though, Alien Encounter was a makeover of Mission to Mars...

Still interesting.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

It's not a bad ride, not at all.

The original was more "educational", but the latter is ok.

The original may have had more culturally relevant content, but it was not communicated in a very clear way. It looked and felt like a very random collection of stock footage.

That and those creepy puppets and the end...

 

[Animaniac93-98]

That's...interesting to ponder.

Though, Alien Encounter was a makeover of Mission to Mars...

Still interesting.

True, but the difference there was Alien Encounter was not a knee-jerk movie tie-in.

 

[englanddg]

The original may have had more culturally relevant content, but it was not communicated in a very clear way. It looked and felt like a very random collection of stock footage.

That and those creepy puppets and the end...

Yeah...it was small world on the cheap.

I like the current ride better.

 

[englanddg]

True, but the difference there was Alien Encounter was not a knee-jerk movie tie-in.

Very true. It was a unique IP, made just for the Park, with promotional stuff and all (something Eisner was quite good at, frankly)

 

[Mike S]

Well...

It's a Danish story by a Danish author with an opening theme:



That is a Danish traditional folk song.

But it's NORWAY! Because WDI SAID SO!

Because all Scandinavians are the same!

Screw cultural experiences. Austrians are German too, and Scots are Brits (ok, they just voted that they are, but that's aside the point).

It is LAZY to slap Frozen here. I don't mind it, and if they do it well, I'll be the first to say it was well done. But, to remove a ride that talked about the PEOPLE and HISTORY of Norway (that was its role) in such an amazing way, and replace it with Frozen just to hike park attendance (which, it won't in a few years...Frozen, like Avatar, was a fad)?

LAZY!

It's the same sort of lazy thinking that makes them think that Avatarland will "save" Animal Kingdom, when there is so much else WRONG with the park that needs addressed first.

I wonder how different this situation would be if it was the Denmark pavilion and not Norway. At least the argument of The Snow Queen being a story from that country could somewhat fit even though Frozen is completely different. Still wouldn't be a good fit for WS in the end.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yeah...it was small world on the cheap.

I like the current ride better.

I guess the searching idea makes a neat story, but I've never really understood how Gran Fiesta Tour is considered much of an improvement. It's almost all what was there. Most of the animation was added on top of the existing footage.