Disney and Universal working on Marvel deal for Florida?

ProfSavage

ProfSavage

Well-Known Member
PhotoDave219 said:
Is this the superintendent?... Yes, sir, I would like you to know that you have a (.....) living in 2R. Rossi, Janice Rossi...
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I love the line about her being prejudiced against Italians... not sure if I can repeat here. Already been kicked from this boards too many times before haha
 
StageFrenzy

StageFrenzy

Well-Known Member
seascape said:
Disney got Oswald for free. NBC wanted an announcer who was under contract to ABC and in order to be allowed to sign him they gave up Oswald. Oswald for Michael's, that was one great win for Disney.
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I don't know if the Sunday night football package was part of that agreement but NBC got the better deal on that one. The best broadcast of football has been SNF for the past couple years. Part of it is the Collingsworth and Michaels, the other is the flex schedule. I believe SNF gets first dibs on match ups then, MNF. MNF also has to pick the match ups in the off season but SNF can flex a game late when it matters.
 
PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
StageFrenzy said:
I don't know if the Sunday night football package was part of that agreement but NBC got the better deal on that one. The best broadcast of football has been SNF for the past couple years. Part of it is the Collingsworth and Michaels, the other is the flex schedule. I believe SNF gets first dibs on match ups then, MNF. MNF also has to pick the match ups in the off season but SNF can flex a game late when it matters.
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No, just having Al Michaels was the deal. They already got Sunday night rights from the No Fun League.
 
AdventureHasAName

AdventureHasAName

Well-Known Member
seascape said:
Universal will someday either come to the conclusion its better to just give up all the Marvel rights or come to a reasonable resolution soon.
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This assertion couldn't be more wrong. Anytime Disney does anything with it's Marvel property - a new movie, a tv show, continuing to print comics, t-shirts, etc - the value of Universal's rights under the contract goes up. Therefore Universal holds all of the cards; they have Disney in a classic catch-22. Disney wants to (a) make its Marvel property more valuable and (b) regain it's eastern US theme park rights from Universal ... but every time it does something that makes its Marvel property more valuable, it makes it more costly to regain the theme park rights from Universal. Disney is screwed unless it ponies up so much money that Universal can't say "no".

EDIT:
I wrote this in 2010 (when I first got a chance to read and analyze the contract) and nothing in the past 6 years has suggested to me anything has changed (with one caveat) ...

The language in this contract makes my head spin (whoever had their hands in it must have been old-school lawyers who legal-eased unnecessarily for maximum effect, imho), but the one thing that is clear to me after two run-throughs is that Disney isn't building anything in Florida that has anything to do with Marvel until the lease no longer exists. No themed stores, no restaurants, no entertainment complexes, no advertising of Marvel whatsoever. And the contract runs for as long as Universal wants it. Universal has Disney by the stones regarding these Marvel characters in Florida.

With the popularity of the recent Marvel films (Spiderman, Iron Man) and with many upcoming films (Captain America, Thor, Avengers) - not to mention Disney's stated goal of proliferating the characters through television - I have to believe this 1994 contract gave Universal use of the characters at way below current market value. If Disney tries to buy out the lease, I bet it would cost them a bundle - I don't see any reason whatsoever why Universal would want to let Disney/Marvel out of the deal.

Of note, west of the Mississippi, Disney can use specific Marvel characters in their parks, but may not build or market a "Marvel-land". In other words, they could have an Iron Man ride at DCA or a Spiderman Meet & Greet, but no use of the word "Marvel" anywhere.
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Now, here's the one caveat: I don't think Universal has any control over the Guardians of the Galaxy characters (other than maybe Thanos and Drax) or any of the Inhumans.
 
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AEfx

AEfx

Well-Known Member
MonkeyHead said:
You deniers...
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Oh please don't use that language...it's the political trick version of using a four-letter-word to escalate something unnecessarily.

MonkeyHead said:
So you think that not only will Disney buy Universal out of their contract (which is worth untold amounts more than when it was struck in the early 90s) but they'll also eat the cost of re-theming an entire land?

Because Universal won't pay for that. Why would they? Ever? Re theme the land in a property much less lucrative and at this point in time more expensive?
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Just on a practical level, I do need to point out that retheming "an entire land" is not as epic as you make it seem, at least in the case of MSHI. Almost the entire "Marvel theme" is simply flat facades, that could be fabricated off-site, easily moved in, and replaced practically overnight (please note the word "practically", not "literally" - suffice to say, they wouldn't have to close for a year or even really a month to do so).

The only exception is the Spiderman ride, which if planned, could have the film swapped out and sets redressed in a not incredibly long amount of time. (Although it seems that the Nintendoland is going into USF, I have to admit thinking about the structure and ride path of Spiderman, that would make one heck of a Super Smash Bros. attraction with really just an overlay - every effect in the ride, including the finale, would fit perfectly into the theme and various weapons/effects used in the game.)

Now, all that said - I don't think this is as much of a peeing contest between Disney and Universal as folks think. I don't think one has any more of an upper hand than the other. I agree they are in no hurry to get rid of it, but I also don't think they see it as any crown jewel, either. And Disney probably doesn't care because they get a cut of the merchandising and aren't building any attractions period, so getting them back would mean nothing than a parade and meet and greets.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if in the next 5 or 10 years it does disappear - not because Disney wants to buy them back so badly and open attractions, but simply because Universal is so aggressively developing. The Spiderman film franchise has been driven into the ground (yes yes fans I know there is one more in the pipeline, they are putting him a group film as a last ditch effort), the X-films are only a once every few years proposition, and Hulk is arguably the most minor of the Avengers (in popularity, other than Hawkeye, and screen time).

That's some prime real estate - and at some point, Universal is going to want that for something else. As great as Spiderman is, it's the only real draw in that area, other than that it's a roller coaster that could be painted any color and be rethemed in any way, and two carnie rides. It's also looking rather tired and old compared to newer things like Potter - the flats and the comic format do fit together, but those simply just aren't the most popular versions of the characters and folks are becoming a bit more sophisticated in their theme requirements since Universal is so taking it out of the park.
 
Mike S

Mike S

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
Oh please don't use that language...it's the political trick version of using a four-letter-word to escalate something unnecessarily.



Just on a practical level, I do need to point out that retheming "an entire land" is not as epic as you make it seem, at least in the case of MSHI. Almost the entire "Marvel theme" is simply flat facades, that could be fabricated off-site, easily moved in, and replaced practically overnight (please note the word "practically", not "literally" - suffice to say, they wouldn't have to close for a year or even really a month to do so).

The only exception is the Spiderman ride, which if planned, could have the film swapped out and sets redressed in a not incredibly long amount of time. (Although it seems that the Nintendoland is going into USF, I have to admit thinking about the structure and ride path of Spiderman, that would make one heck of a Super Smash Bros. attraction with really just an overlay - every effect in the ride, including the finale, would fit perfectly into the theme and various weapons/effects used in the game.)

Now, all that said - I don't think this is as much of a peeing contest between Disney and Universal as folks think. I don't think one has any more of an upper hand than the other. I agree they are in no hurry to get rid of it, but I also don't think they see it as any crown jewel, either. And Disney probably doesn't care because they get a cut of the merchandising and aren't building any attractions period, so getting them back would mean nothing than a parade and meet and greets.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if in the next 5 or 10 years it does disappear - not because Disney wants to buy them back so badly and open attractions, but simply because Universal is so aggressively developing. The Spiderman film franchise has been driven into the ground (yes yes fans I know there is one more in the pipeline, they are putting him a group film as a last ditch effort), the X-films are only a once every few years proposition, and Hulk is arguably the most minor of the Avengers (in popularity, other than Hawkeye, and screen time).

That's some prime real estate - and at some point, Universal is going to want that for something else. As great as Spiderman is, it's the only real draw in that area, other than that it's a roller coaster that could be painted any color and be rethemed in any way, and two carnie rides. It's also looking rather tired and old compared to newer things like Potter - the flats and the comic format do fit together, but those simply just aren't the most popular versions of the characters and folks are becoming a bit more sophisticated in their theme requirements since Universal is so taking it out of the park.
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Updates are rumored for MSHI and I wouldn't be surprised if it meant a refresh of the whole land. Apparently Fantastic 4 and X-Men could be removed. Also a new Avengers ride.
 
El Grupo

El Grupo

Well-Known Member
Appears like Disney and Comcast are both fairly satisfied with the deal even if the former wasn't involved in the Marvel/Universal negotiations. IOA gets a great IP for attractions and Disney gets licensing payments w/o lifting a finger and a bit of promotion for their movie studio products.
 
PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
Oh please don't use that language...it's the political trick version of using a four-letter-word to escalate something unnecessarily.



Just on a practical level, I do need to point out that retheming "an entire land" is not as epic as you make it seem, at least in the case of MSHI. Almost the entire "Marvel theme" is simply flat facades, that could be fabricated off-site, easily moved in, and replaced practically overnight (please note the word "practically", not "literally" - suffice to say, they wouldn't have to close for a year or even really a month to do so).

The only exception is the Spiderman ride, which if planned, could have the film swapped out and sets redressed in a not incredibly long amount of time. (Although it seems that the Nintendoland is going into USF, I have to admit thinking about the structure and ride path of Spiderman, that would make one heck of a Super Smash Bros. attraction with really just an overlay - every effect in the ride, including the finale, would fit perfectly into the theme and various weapons/effects used in the game.)

Now, all that said - I don't think this is as much of a peeing contest between Disney and Universal as folks think. I don't think one has any more of an upper hand than the other. I agree they are in no hurry to get rid of it, but I also don't think they see it as any crown jewel, either. And Disney probably doesn't care because they get a cut of the merchandising and aren't building any attractions period, so getting them back would mean nothing than a parade and meet and greets.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if in the next 5 or 10 years it does disappear - not because Disney wants to buy them back so badly and open attractions, but simply because Universal is so aggressively developing. The Spiderman film franchise has been driven into the ground (yes yes fans I know there is one more in the pipeline, they are putting him a group film as a last ditch effort), the X-films are only a once every few years proposition, and Hulk is arguably the most minor of the Avengers (in popularity, other than Hawkeye, and screen time).

That's some prime real estate - and at some point, Universal is going to want that for something else. As great as Spiderman is, it's the only real draw in that area, other than that it's a roller coaster that could be painted any color and be rethemed in any way, and two carnie rides. It's also looking rather tired and old compared to newer things like Potter - the flats and the comic format do fit together, but those simply just aren't the most popular versions of the characters and folks are becoming a bit more sophisticated in their theme requirements since Universal is so taking it out of the park.
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I really feel that Marvel has hit their peak popularity and will slowly ebb back down. Avengers 2 didnt do GA-GA numbers. Its still popular and in american culture, its just slowly receding. Its being beat into the ground as bad as Pirates were.
 
AEfx

AEfx

Well-Known Member
PhotoDave219 said:
I really feel that Marvel has hit their peak popularity and will slowly ebb back down. Avengers 2 didnt do GA-GA numbers. Its still popular and in american culture, its just slowly receding. Its being beat into the ground as bad as Pirates were.
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Possibly, though 1.3B and counting is nothing to sneeze at (with a rather reasonable 280M budget), and it's already the sixth highest grossing film of all time. Avengers did 1.5B - considering sequelitis, and declining returns, that's pretty darn close and no one at Disney shouldn't be thrilled at the performance.

I think Ant Man is going to be more of a test - can they really make a no-name character star of a successful film again (or was GoG a fluke). If I were Disney, I would not have had it quite so close on the heels of Avengers as this is a rather stacked summer season.

It will be very interesting to see how well it does (and how well it will be interpreted to have done). The solo Marvel films generally cost 50-60% of an Avengers film, and do half the business (give or take a few hundred mill). So it certainly shouldn't have Avengers expectations, but if it manages to make 400-600M, it would say that indeed they are at least still maintaining the plateau, if not upping it.

Considering many greater superheroes have flopped in films, if an obscurity like Ant Man can do well, they definitely have some skills somewhere. Heck, Iron Man was an odd choice to start with in the first place - certainly not top tier - and look what he started.
 
PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
Possibly, though 1.3B and counting is nothing to sneeze at (with a rather reasonable 280M budget), and it's already the sixth highest grossing film of all time. Avengers did 1.5B - considering sequelitis, and declining returns, that's pretty darn close and no one at Disney shouldn't be thrilled at the performance.

I think Ant Man is going to be more of a test - can they really make a no-name character star of a successful film again (or was GoG a fluke). If I were Disney, I would not have had it quite so close on the heels of Avengers as this is a rather stacked summer season.

It will be very interesting to see how well it does (and how well it will be interpreted to have done). The solo Marvel films generally cost 50-60% of an Avengers film, and do half the business (give or take a few hundred mill). So it certainly shouldn't have Avengers expectations, but if it manages to make 400-600M, it would say that indeed they are at least still maintaining the plateau, if not upping it.

Considering many greater superheroes have flopped in films, if an obscurity like Ant Man can do well, they definitely have some skills somewhere. Heck, Iron Man was an odd choice to start with in the first place - certainly not top tier - and look what he started.
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Yeah, well There's a chance Star Wars will blow away Marvel.
 

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