Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[brideck]

Darn those youtubers for influencing those governments!!! We all know the leaders of Pakistan and Malaysia sit down each night and turn on Critical Drinker.

I mean, they don't have to? Homosexuality is just straight up illegal in the vast majority of those countries.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I would, but if you told me MSNBC and other likeminded outlets were influencing billions of people worldwide to avoid a certain movie I’d still say you were wearing a tinfoil hat.

The further left or right the ideology is the less reach it has. Fox primarily appeals to the far right, to people that already think like they do, MSNBC primarily appeals to the far left, to people that already feel like they do. The vast majority don’t watch either, the moderates find them both insane.

FoxNews reaches a couple million people in Primetime, MSNBC reaches about 1 million in Primetime, neither has the weight to influence anything beyond the extremes.

Who is talking about billions?

Those networks have significant impact, and Fox in particular then gets dramatically amplified by Facebook and Twitter and other social media outlets along with YouTube and the like. The issue enters the zeitgeist and reaches more people. I mean, how do you think people heard Inside Out 2 was coming out? If a network of outlets can announce and promote a film, they can damage it too.

As a side note, MSNBC is not “far left” and (sadly) Fox is not “far right.” Both are in the mainstream of the US spectrum, not on the fringes.

 

[brideck]

I mean…if we’re gonna use the most extreme examples of stupidity…it dilutes the effectiveness of the argument.

Not sure what this means. The actions of the outrage culture led pretty directly to Bud Light losing 28% of its market share over the last year. If that's not a practical example of this thing that purportedly doesn't exist, I don't know what is.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not sure what this means. The actions of the outrage culture led pretty directly to Bud Light losing 28% of its market share over the last year. If that's not a practical example of this thing that purportedly doesn't exist, I don't know what is.

You don’t think the consumers of bud lite represent a political/social fringe?

I may be out of line on this one…but probably not too far

 

[erasure fan1]

I'm desperately hoping the Moana 2 situation turns out more like Toy Story 2 (which was originally meant to be direct-to-video)

If I remember right, that was a long time ago, the whole toy story 2 direct to video was just a ploy. They never actually started anything. They, I guess you could say threatened, to make dvd sequels of the Pixar films starting with TS2. And Pixar was afraid it would tarnish their brand. They were shopping around for new distribution and this brought them back. And as far as I can tell they had already had a lot of the Moana show already done.

That was far more legitimate than Brie Larson hate…I will fully concede that one.

Very true. But that's what will happen when you come off as a pompous jerk to so many. We see it all the time. I feel I'm pretty good about separating the art from the artist, but many aren't. So it's not all that surprising in my opinion.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Also those audiences are 1000% baked into doctrine before they even turn it on…no “open minded” opinions are movies will be had there. There drones from the hive

I’m gonna blow your mind… you have been influenced by news and pop media. You have been influenced in ways you don’t know. You have been influenced over and over and over. So have I. So has Vegas and Bri and everyone here. It doesn’t just happen to other people.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

A network isn’t necessary; just a touchpoint will do. To wit: Bud Lite.

I still think the bud light thing would have fizzled out quickly had the marketing execs statements about getting away from frat boys not surfaced. The can sent to the transgender influencer lit the fuse but the disparaging comments towards their current customers was the dynamite that blew up and caused the decline.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

If I remember correctly…TS 2 was conceived a cheapquel (it was Eisner)…but catmull, lasseter et al kinda sabotaged the early draft to push a more expansive budget/effort…

Good thing too…it was spectacular

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I’m gonna blow your mind… you have been influenced by news and pop media. You have been influenced in ways you don’t know. You have been influenced over and over and over. So have I. So has Vegas and Bri and everyone here. It doesn’t just happen to other people.

When did I say I wasn’t? Of course we all are…our dna allows it.

I watched Peter Jennings hold up the Gipper as a god…odd play for a Canadian…for a decade…

But that’s not quite maddow v Hannity as far as motives

 

[Casper Gutman]

If I remember right, that was a long time ago, the whole toy story 2 direct to video was just a ploy. They never actually started anything. They, I guess you could say threatened, to make dvd sequels of the Pixar films starting with TS2. And Pixar was afraid it would tarnish their brand. They were shopping around for new distribution and this brought them back. And as far as I can tell they had already had a lot of the Moana show already done.

Very true. But that's what will happen when you come off as a pompous jerk to so many. We see it all the time. I feel I'm pretty good about separating the art from the artist, but many aren't. So it's not all that surprising in my opinion.

She “came off” as a pompous jerk because it benefitted a group of individuals with prominent platforms to have her “come off” as a pompous jerk. So they distorted what she said, edited it, removed context, added dishonest commentary, and broadcast it relentlessly. And that’s what you don’t want to acknowledge.

 

[brideck]

You don’t think the consumers of bud lite represent a political/social fringe?

I may be out of line on this one…but probably not too far

Light beers make up 40% of the beer market (the largest segment by far) and Bud Light used to be the largest brand in that segment. Regardless of how you personally feel about it, I think it would be a mistake to label that a fringe of anything.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

She “came off” as a pompous jerk because it benefitted a group of individuals with prominent platforms to have her “come off” as a pompous jerk. So they distorted what she said, edited it, removed context, added dishonest commentary, and broadcast it relentlessly. And that’s what you don’t want to acknowledge.

That IS an example of hate cult toxicity having oversized influence

Doesn’t cover the little mermaid though

 

[brideck]

I’m gonna blow your mind… you have been influenced by news and pop media. You have been influenced in ways you don’t know. You have been influenced over and over and over. So have I. So has Vegas and Bri and everyone here. It doesn’t just happen to other people.

How dare you, sir? I'll have you know that all of my opinions were strategically developed in a lab run by no one but me. Or... um, yeah.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Light beers make up 40% of the beer market (the largest segment by far) and Bud Light used to be the largest brand in that segment. Regardless of how you personally feel about it, I think it would be a mistake to label that a fringe of anything.

Are you a beer afficianado? Because I really think the market is kinda easy to read…

I don’t think Heineken lite has a fervent backlash to that commercial.

But miller lite may have. These brands are kinda baked in.

And that comes full circle on Disney…who usually gets more credit than they should based on rep and don’t have to answer for mistakes

Like communicore hall and lighthouse point

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I’m gonna blow your mind… you have been influenced by news and pop media. You have been influenced in ways you don’t know. You have been influenced over and over and over. So have I. So has Vegas and Bri and everyone here. It doesn’t just happen to other people.

To a certain extent we’re all influenced by what we read, hear, share, etc but the idea that an underground network has the ability to torpedo a movie still makes no sense to me, especially since I’ve seen them all on D+ and none have been great.

Frozen had as large a gay presence with Oaken as Elemental had with the little sib (trying to use the right phrase) and made billions, because the reality is no one cares if there’s a gay or non binary character if the movie is good.

The only movie I think was sunk by a “hate network” was the little mermaid and I don’t think that had anything to do with influencers, tv, or other, it was just a step too far for most people and they were mad to see a character they love changed so drastically. After seeing it on D+ it was fairly cringeworthy at points also, not good enough to overcome the negativity towards it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The only movie I think was sunk by a “hate network” was the little mermaid and honestly after seeing it on D+ it was fairly cringeworthy at points also, not one I'd say was great.

This is the on that I do not think fell to race or misogyny…less so than the others

I think they killed the format with repetition and Disney sent a veiled, cynical message to young girls by even making it. They screwed up.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

This is the on that I do not think fell to race or misogyny…less so than the others

I think they killed the format with repetition and Disney sent a veiled, cynical message to young girls by even making it. They screwed up.

I think I was editing while you were responding…

TLM, to me, is the one movie last year that makes me believe the “hate network“ has an influence, I just don’t think it’s organized and don’t think it’s nearly as big an influence as others. TLM was the turning point for Disney last year and the catalyst that put everything that came after it under a microscope.

Guardians 3 was just ok but wasn’t hated, everything after TLM was mediocre at best though and Disney as a whole suffered from horrible word of mouth from that point forward.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think I was editing while you were responding…

TLM, to me, is the one movie last year that makes me believe the “hate network“ has an influence, I just don’t think it’s organized and don’t think it’s nearly as big an influence as others. TLM was the turning point for Disney last year and the catalyst that put everything that came after it under a microscope.

Guardians 3 was just ok but wasn’t hated, everything after TLM was mediocre at best though and Disney as a whole suffered from horrible word of mouth from that point forward.

That’s fair

But disagree on guardians

Might have had the most heart of any marvel movie…and Completed perhaps the best 3 movie arc in MCU…except maybe Cap

 

[brideck]

To a certain extent we’re all influenced by what we read, hear, share, etc but the idea that an underground network has the ability to torpedo a movie still makes no sense to me, especially since I’ve seen them all on D+ and none have been great.

I wouldn't consider it as an underground network. It's really pretty visible and presented as fairly innocuous, which is how this sort of thing is able to be so effective. Fear of things we don't understand or using a related argument as a shield is a great starting point, followed by normalizing the actual argument being made, and from there it's a small leap to speaking out against that thing.

To use The Little Mermaid as an example (which I haven't actually seen, I grew tired of Disney's remakes awhile back), I think dissenting views were able to couch their prejudice behind a veil of the common "live-action casting should reflect the fictional character" argument. This gets made all the time from "Why is she blonde?" to "Why isn't Emma Watson wearing buck teeth? Hermione had buck teeth." If you put that up as your initial statement and then slip in plenty of "she shouldn't be black" to the discussion, it's easy to steer the conversation in a certain direction.

Oof, and how could I have forgotten that this example happened pretty synchronously with the prominent anti-DEI movement that took over conversation on the right for quite awhile (and is still happening less prominently).

 

[Casper Gutman]

To a certain extent we’re all influenced by what we read, hear, share, etc but the idea that an underground network has the ability to torpedo a movie still makes no sense to me, especially since I’ve seen them all on D+ and none have been great.

Frozen had as large a gay presence with Oaken as Elemental had with the little sib (trying to use the right phrase) and made billions, because the reality is no one cares if there’s a gay or non binary character if the movie is good.

The only movie I think was sunk by a “hate network” was the little mermaid and I don’t think that had anything to do with influencers, tv, or other, it was just a step too far for most people and they were mad to see a character they love changed so drastically. After seeing it on D+ it was fairly cringeworthy at points also, not good enough to overcome the negativity towards it.

Who said anything about “secret?” There aren’t shadowy meetings and there’s no secret handshake. We’ve seen the network work here many times - a distorted, misleading story, often an outright lie, appears on Twitter or Facebook, gets picked up by a bunch of rage-bait YouTube channels, which are then used a “source” by TV “news” outlets and national commentators, who yell it loud enough it appears in the speech of a major political figure. In the meantime, the story gets diffused through even remote social media outlets like these boards, often over and over again as it appears at each new level, giving the impression it’s a big deal. Each level relies on the previous one for the pretense of “credibility.” All it takes is a shared ideological goal, a total disregard for honesty, and a lack of serious editorial oversight.