Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Im usually wrong in my BO predictions but Moana 2 will do well but Mufasa will struggle. Wolverine and Deadpool will crush it.

That’s my guess as well

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Ah… It would probably be a boring debate… we would be too agreeable…I did not think Strange World was a good movie…. I don’t think your reasoning would be of the bigotry variety… even though you enjoy twisting words, jumping to conclusions and making up false quotes

So we agree but i’m a different breed of scum?…

I’ll take it…i pride myself in being a rust belt comedian

 

[Ghost93]

They’ll get there…we just can’t put things on a time table. That’s what Disney needs to do…make progress without drawing battle lines. They haven’t done a good job so far.

Well, eventually, somebody has to make the risky move to make progress happen. Even if it isn't financially rewarding in the short term, it helps pave way for future representation.

I will somewhat agree, however, the way Disney has gone about LGBT inclusion has been clumsy from a business standpoint. I still maintain Disney should have made one GREAT movie with a gay romance/relationship as the focus and then have had several movies in a row with no gay characters rather than try to shoehorn a bunch of insignificant gay supporting characters into almost every film. Gay or lesbian people may appreciate seeing a minor gay supporting character, but they won't show up in droves to support a film with relatively minor representation. Yet people who have an issue with gay characters WILL boycott a movie with gay representation, even if it's small. Which is why if Disney was to endure all the controversy for LGBT representation, they should have just gone all out and made something more substantial.

 

[Ghost93]

Perhaps I don’t get it… I am a straight white Male who has never and will never have children…although I don’t have an issue with my niece and nephew watching such content. But neither does my brother with his kids… as far as I can tell Wisconsin is middle America… so as part of the LBGTQ+ community enlighten me…. What is the difference between a gay character in Strange Workd and a non- binary character on Elemental…. Seeing as the latter was a word of mouth leggy film and also one of the top streaming movies on all platforms last year

A few things:
1. Elemental is an infinitely better movie than Strange World
2. No one would know the character in Elemental who has maybe one line was nonbinary if not for the voice actor confirming so, wheraz Ethan's crush on Diazo is explicitly stated numerous times in Strange World. I even hesitate to call the nonbinary person in Elemental a "character" as they have one scene and we know absolutely nothing about them other than they are related to Wade. I don't mind the inclusion but it should NOT have been hyped up in articles before hand because it is extremely easy to miss.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well, eventually, somebody has to make the risky move to make progress happen. Even if it isn't financially rewarding in the short term, it helps pave way for future representation.

I will somewhat agree, however, the way Disney has gone about LGBT inclusion has been clumsy from a business standpoint. I still maintain Disney should have made one GREAT movie with a gay romance/relationship as the focus and then have had several movies in a row with no gay characters rather than try to shoehorn a bunch of insignificant gay supporting characters into almost every film. Gay or lesbian people may appreciate seeing a minor gay supporting character, but they won't show up in droves to support a film with relatively minor representation. Yet people who have an issue with gay characters WILL boycott a movie with gay representation, even if it's small. Which is why if Disney was to endure all the controversy for LGBT representation, they should have just gone all out and made something more substantial.

I totally agree that they should do these things…

The problem is this isn’t a non-profit or a government agency…

This is a stock behemoth with bad management. I always (jokes aside) try to be a pragmatist…and this is where that comes in.

They have to shift their market…which takes time…not turn away from it.

And that is frustrating. But there’s hope. I can think of ALOT of things 10, 15, 25 years ago that advocates were distraught it would “take forever”…but they happened and aren’t second guessed now.

It’s possible with brain power.

 

[TP2000]

You sure have a lot of critique on a film you have never nor will ever seen

I'm not critiquing the artistic merits of the film, I am critiquing the box office results of that film. And simultaneously comparing/contrasting those box office results against the argument from some here that Strange World flopped globally because of "the hate network" and "bigotry".

Strange World was a massive global box office failure. I'm pretty sure I know what some of the biggest reasons for that failure were, based on the individual decisions to not buy a ticket to the movie by an informed and savvy global audience.

 

[TP2000]

A few things:
1. Elemental is an infinitely better movie than Strange World
2. No one would know the character in Elemental who has maybe one line was nonbinary if not for the voice actor confirming so, wheraz Ethan's crush on Diazo is explicitly stated numerous times in Strange World. I even hesitate to call the nonbinary person in Elemental a "character" as they have one scene and we know absolutely nothing about them other than they are related to Wade. I don't mind the inclusion but it should NOT have been hyped up in articles before hand because it is extremely easy to miss.

Thank you.

I honestly can't wrap my mind around what "non-binary" is even supposed to be. Or, more importantly in my niche culture, what it's supposed to mean at Last Call on a Saturday night.

 

[DKampy]

I'm not critiquing the artistic merits of the film, I am critiquing the box office results of that film. And simultaneously comparing/contrasting those box office results against the argument from some here that Strange World flopped globally because of "the hate network" and "bigotry".

Strange World was a massive global box office failure. I'm pretty sure I know what some of the biggest reasons for that failure were, from the individual decisions to not buy a ticket to the movie by an informed and savvy global audience.

As far as I can tell you are the only who has said the only reason Strange world has failed was due to having a gay character… bigotry and hatred was a factor…, but I don’t even think most of us believe it was the largest factor

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not at all, its talking about the current state of affairs of the box office, specifically Disney's. Its right in the title of the thread.

And if Warner brothers movies bombed and it was attributed to the hate cult…or the spectre of covid…your stance might be less disingenuous.

 

[Disney Irish]

And if Warner brothers movies bombed and it was attributed to the hate cult…or the spectre of covid…your stance might be less disingenuous.

Exhibit A - Flash

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Exhibit A - Flash

It blew…like marvels

Nobody claimed it was racist or sexist

Cause they both blew and the producers should he fired and blackballed

 

[Disney Irish]

It blew…like marvels

Nobody claimed it was racist or sexist

Cause they both blew and the producers should he fired and blackballed

The DC fandom drove that thing into the ground and for personal reasons, specifically due to how they felt about the Synderverse. Sound familar....

Personally I would say it was a 6/10.

 

[brideck]

I honestly can't wrap my mind around what "non-binary" is even supposed to be. Or, more importantly in my niche culture, what it's supposed to mean at Last Call on a Saturday night.

My spouse is non-binary. AMA.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

Perhaps I don’t get it… I am a straight white Male who has never and will never have children…although I don’t have an issue with my niece and nephew watching such content. But neither does my brother with his kids… as far as I can tell Wisconsin is middle America… so as part of the LBGTQ+ community enlighten me…. What is the difference between a gay character in Strange Workd and a non- binary character on Elemental…. Seeing as the latter was a word of mouth leggy film and also one of the top streaming movies on all platforms last year

Some people are bigots. Some it may be faith based. Maybe some parents aren't ready to have that conversation. I don't think I am out of line saying that the same movie that has a gay or non binary character in it will do as well as a movie that doesn't. That is the current world we live in. I'm not saying don't make them. I'm just saying Disney has to know that going in.

My opinion is for Disney to make the mass appeal feel good movies that people have nothing to complain (yes some will always complain about something) about then use that success to make movies that is culturally important to them knowing that there will be a percentage of people that wont see it and it wont do as well at the BO but who cares because you made your money on other projects.

Also, @Ghost93 has said it here before. If you're going to have a gay character, go all in.

 

[TP2000]

What is the difference between a gay character in Strange Workd and a non- binary character on Elemental….

Off the top of my head, knowing both were PG rated family cartoons aimed at school aged children...

• Strange World had a lead character who was a gay teenage boy in it who had a gay crush on another teenage boy. That automatically sets off alarm bells for many parents of small children, if the box office results are to be believed.
• Elemental had a "non-binary" minor supporting character, which is very hard to define for many folks (like me), who had no apparent impact on the film as being non-binary.

I went to Google. Apparently this "non-binary" character in Elemental was the younger sister, who appears for 3 seconds and has one line. She is introduced as "that's my little sib Lake and her girlfriend Ghibli" and she then says "Sup". If they are girlfriends, why aren't they Lesbians? I've had very close Lesbian friends since the 1980's, and they've never described themselves as "non-binary". Is being a Lesbian with a girlfriend not cool enough now? That seems almost offensive.

Here's the 3 second appearance of Lake the Lesbian non-binary sister.

 

[TP2000]

Some people are bigots. Some it may be faith based. Maybe some parents aren't ready to have that conversation. I don't think I am out of line saying that the same movie that has a gay or non binary character in it will do as well as a movie that doesn't. That is the current world we live in. I'm not saying don't make them. I'm just saying Disney has to know that going in.

Agreed. One other thing that impacted Strange World flopping was that it was outright banned in Communist China, much of Africa, all of the Mid East Muslim countries, etc. for having a leading gay character in it. Disney had to know that beforehand.

The following nation's government censors forbid Strange World from being publicly shown to their citizens:

• All countries in the Middle East, except Israel
• Africa; Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, Nigeria, Ghana
• Communist China, Vietnam
• And majority Muslim nations; Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey, Pakistan, Maldives, Bangladesh

 

[brideck]

I went to Google. Apparently this "non-binary" character in Elemental was the younger sister, who appears for 3 seconds and has one line. She is introduced as "that's my little sib Lake and her girlfriend Ghibli" and she then says "Sup". If they are girlfriends, why aren't they Lesbians? I've had very close Lesbian friends since the 1980's, and they've never described themselves as "non-binary". Is being a Lesbian with a girlfriend not cool enough now? That seems almost offensive.

Here's the 3 second appearance of Lake the Lesbian non-binary sister.

At risk of language policing, you shouldn't use she or sister to describe this character. There's a reason they're introduced as "sib" in the dialogue. Part of being NB is the removal of gender from the discussion.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The DC fandom drove that thing into the ground and for personal reasons, specifically due to how they felt about the Synderverse. Sound familar....

Personally I would say it was a 6/10.

I would say that segment of the grievance culture was just as off base as those of “other” studios

 

[Casper Gutman]

The DC fandom drove that thing into the ground and for personal reasons, specifically due to how they felt about the Synderverse. Sound familar....

Personally I would say it was a 6/10.

Exactly. And, on a much more legitimate note, the star had huge amounts of baggage that turned off audiences.

External forces have a HUGE impact on box office. The hate network is ONE (again, rarely the dominant) external factor.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

My opinion is for Disney to make the mass appeal feel good movies that people have nothing to complain (yes some will always complain about something) about then use that success to make movies that is culturally important to them knowing that there will be a percentage of people that wont see it and it wont do as well at the BO but who cares because you made your money on other projects.

Also, @Ghost93 has said it here before. If you're going to have a gay character, go all in.

nailed it