Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[MagicMouseFan]

If someone has a problem with a casting choice based on merit (talent, acting, singing) that's fair, but if it's based on skin color, then yes, that's racism. I'm not going to sugarcoat it just because we're Disney fans.

I disagree and since I’m assuming this was directed at me I’ll respond. Nothing in this world is black and white. There is nuance in everything.

I support representation and visibility in films and TV. I love the 2023 Wonka film. developing the characters of Slugworth (Paterson Joseph) and his daughter Noodle (Calah Lane). It felt organic, original and just worked.

I’m sorry, I do have an issue with casting Halle Bailey as Ariel, not with Halle but with Disney’s decisions in general. It seemed like a trick and something superfluous, just as when Coca Cola came up with New Coke and replaced Classic Coke. New Coke was not a bad product; it was just pointless to me and ended up backfiring for Coke.

To me, changing the appearance of Ariel seemed like Disney trying to get the best of both worlds: making some changes for the marketing purpose without creating real innovative and substantial content that would actually embrace the diversity.

Maybe I will feel different if they make an original Ariel sequel with Bailey with new music, new story.
So Disney needs to get working on that.

For now, the casting decision seemed inorganic, contrived, rather than organic inclusion. Disney is one of the largest and most resourceful studios in the world, and it is easy (nothing is easy) for them to come up with new and exciting stories and characters that will capture the hearts of the public. I think the audience can tell when something is not real and will react accordingly.
Real inclusion needs more than just a gimmick and that comes with risk. Tell me the third episode of "The Last of us” didn’t work. It was a great side story inside the Last of us world.

Again I’m not big on these exact remakes. Lilo and Stich looks exactly like original cartoon… we have already seen it. Disney couldn’t make it a new adventure?

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Odd that my editing and adding a paragraph changed the post order, my point still stands though, if we’re ever going to reach true equality we have to be held to the same standards, if it’s racist for one group it should be racist for all groups.

I also don’t discredit the massive historical disparity, I just think it’s odd that everyone wants equality, but only in certain situations.

 

[Casper Gutman]

But plenty of live-action characters don’t look like their cartoon counterparts. Emma Stone is obviously very far from the animated Cruella, and Elle Fanning really doesn’t look much like Aurora. That no-one raised any objections (at least on the basis of appearance) to their casting shows that it’s really ethnicity rather than resemblance that is the key factor here.

Regarding your broader point, there’s a long history around issues of representation that I think explains all too well why people of colour are entitled to react differently to instances of “race swapping” than those who objected to the casting of Berry or Zegler. Your asking where that difference lies is analogous to someone asking why there’s no Straight Pride.

Well put.

It’s also worth adding that Hollywood is entirely dependent on milking IPs from decades ago with remakes, sequels, etc. A great many of these IPs originated in a period when minorities were heavily marginalized in media. Given this, insisting that minorities cannot be cast in “white roles” is a way, intentionally or not, to continue the marginalization that defined the era in which the IP originated.

 

[LittleBuford]

Well put.

It’s also worth adding that Hollywood is entirely dependent on milking IPs from decades ago with remakes, sequels, etc. A great many of these IPs originated in a period when minorities were heavily marginalized in media. Given this, insisting that minorities cannot be cast in “white roles” is a way, intentionally or not, to continue the marginalization that defined the era in which the IP originated.

That’s a really compelling point, especially given how often we’re asked why studios don’t just create new stories for characters of colour.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I also don’t discredit the massive historical disparity, I just think it’s odd that everyone wants equality, but only in certain situations.

This is a tremendously complex topic, but culture, government, etc. have momentum. I explained above one reason this is true of franchise filmmaking. We can’t just say “everyone’s equal now,” and that becomes true. It takes a lot of work.

There are also a lot of people eager to use the idea of being “colorblind” to perpetuate discrimination. Setting those bad faith individuals aside, even the best of us aren’t always very good at recognizing our own biases and prejudices. That’s just being human. Again, simply declaring that discrimination is over doesn’t make it so.

 

[Disney Irish]

This does speak to the proliferation of streaming and market saturation. It's an important revenue source for studios but it might be hard for some to build a profitable service when going up against established juggernauts like Netflix and Disney.

Streaming has to be lucrative for Disney because they're collecting all revenue instead of licensing shows out.

Apple however, I don't think necessarily is concerned about these numbers. As a company they have almost $100 billion in cash assets on hand. They don't need their streaming service to be profitable any time soon. They can do what they are doing, and that is slowly building a service that is really quality over quantity. The opposite of what Netflix seems to be doing.

They're also heavy on sci-fi shows which will help them build a different audience than other streamers.

It may contribute to brand loyalty.

AppleTV+ is an add-on to all their other services, its not meant to be a standalone service unlike Netflix or Disney+. Just like Amazon they have a locked in customer base that they don't care if you use the service or not. So just like Amazon it profitability is secondary to their main goal which is to get and keep users into their ecosystem once they buy an iDevice.

 

[donaldtoo]

@Vegas Disney Fan , don’t even bother anymore.
If you’re white and not feeling guilty about some race-related thing, even if you or your family never had anything to do with such, then you’re not guilty-white enough…!!!

 

[Casper Gutman]

That’s a really compelling point, especially given how often we’re asked why studios don’t just create new stories for characters of colour.

The last original live-action IP to take off was what? John Wick in 2014?

 

[Casper Gutman]

@Vegas Disney Fan , don’t even bother anymore.
If you’re white and not feeling guilty about some race-related thing, even if you or your family never had anything to do with such, then you’re not guilty-white enough…!!!

Who wants anyone to feel guilty?

 

[donaldtoo]

Who wants anyone to feel guilty?

Hmmmmmmmm…?!
I’m done here.

 

[Chi84]

@Vegas Disney Fan , don’t even bother anymore.
If you’re white and not feeling guilty about some race-related thing, even if you or your family never had anything to do with such, then you’re not guilty-white enough…!!!

That’s a pretty simplistic comment given the complexity and sincerity of the discussion by all parties thus far.

 

[LittleBuford]

Odd that my editing and adding a paragraph changed the post order, my point still stands though, if we’re ever going to reach true equality we have to be held to the same standards, if it’s racist for one group it should be racist for all groups.

I also don’t discredit the massive historical disparity, I just think it’s odd that everyone wants equality, but only in certain situations.

Again, this defintion of equality is one that would give us Straight Pride and White History Month. It's a definition that does discredit the massive historical disparities at play (which I know is not your intention).

 

[donaldtoo]

That’s a pretty simplistic comment given the complexity and sincerity of the discussion by all parties thus far.

Sometimes “simplistic” is actually the best approach/explanation in certain circumstances.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I’m going to gracefully bow out, save mom some anxiety, and hopefully not derail the thread anymore but I just want to add one last thing… if they ever do make a live action Soul I pray that John Legend can act and Disney has the common sense to cast him.

If that makes me racist because that’s the person I think of when I think of Joe Gardner I’ll own it.

 

[LittleBuford]

If that makes me racist because that’s the person I think of when I think of Joe Gardner I’ll own it.

No-one has accused you of being racist.

 

[Tha Realest]

I’m going to gracefully bow out, save mom some anxiety, and hopefully not derail the thread anymore but I just want to add one last thing… if they ever do make a live action Soul I pray that John Legend can act and Disney has the common sense to cast him.

If that makes me racist because that’s the person I think of when I think of Joe Gardner I’ll own it.

I personally would be fine with Courtney B Vance, or even Jamie Foxx

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

No-one has accused you of being racist.

Not directly but it’s often implied, which is why I replied to the post I did, the discussion doesn’t belong in a box office thread and is forbidden anyway so I’ll go back to my prediction that Stitch will be the first billion dollar movie of the year.

 

[Tha Realest]

Zegler is the same complexion as Gadot, and no-one to my knowledge has said the latter is physically miscast as the Evil Queen. Zegler herself identifies as a white Latina.

I don’t know that that’s true. The observable skin complexion comparisons between Gadot and Zegler may be very similar, but I’m not sure I’ve heard her describe herself as a “white Latina.” To the contrary, I think she often describes herself as brown.

As to the Nani issue someone brought up before, these issues permeate deeper than white / Hispanic / Asian etc. Within those issues is colorism, and that has been a bigger deal and focus in recent years. Our most recent AA winner Zoe Saldana caught a lot of flak for portraying Nina Simone by no less than the Nina Simone estate, as she is a lighter complexion Dominican and wore nose prosthetics and skin darkening to appear as Simone in the film. That was less than a decade ago. The colorism issue is in many ways more complex than simply the ethnicity/race vs ethnicity/race framing we often see, because while in some ways it does advance some form of representation, those within those groups may feel the represented choices merely affirm traditional European beauty standards.

 

[LittleBuford]

Not directly but it’s often implied, which is why I replied to the post I did, the discussion doesn’t belong in a box office thread and is forbidden anyway so I’ll go back to my prediction that Stitch will be the first billion dollar movie of the year.

I think we all stand to learn more on issues of representation and equality. All of us have our blind spots and biases, myself included.

 

[LittleBuford]

I don’t know that that’s true. The observable skin complexion comparisons between Gadot and Zegler may be very similar, but I’m not sure I’ve heard her describe herself as a “white Latina.” To the contrary, I think she often describes herself as brown.

“I would even say that I have the privilege in this industry being a white Latina.”

West Side Story’s Rachel Zegler and Ariana DeBose on Latino Representation in Film

West Side Story's Rachel Zegler and Ariana DeBose on the power of Latino representation, interviewed by TIME100 Talks Host Lola Ogunnaike.

time.com

“Because I'm a white Latina, I hold a lot of privilege, and if that's the conversation people want to have, about my privilege in this industry, then I am absolutely welcome to have that conversation.”

Rachel Zegler on Responsibility and Privilege as a White Latina in Hollywood

In a recent interview on Variety’s Awards Circuit podcast, West Side Story actress Rachel Zegler opens up about her white Latina privilege.

www.popsugar.com