Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Baloo124]

I don’t think you’ve understood what film I’m talking about. I’m discussing The Monkey.

LOVED it! A real classic. The parts on Skull Island were exciting enough, but what really won me over was the climactic climb up the Empire State Building and standoff against the dive-bomber airplanes.

Wait... which monkey movie are we talking about?

 

[Disstevefan1]

As long as Disney can keep Cap in the theaters money will continue to trickle in.

 

[DKampy]

…I’m not sure there’s a difference? Because “silly” was a takeaway

Even if you’re talking about the ridiculousness or super heroes

The ones that seem less absurd are the ones that last.

What do my personal favorites have in common?

X2
The Nolans
Superman
Winter soldier

…I’d say you can “suspend disbelief” because it’s the least absurd takes?

Just me

What does comic book movies have to do with comedic horror movies

Evil Dead has stood the test of time

 

[Agent H]

Yeah…I caught up to that one

It I have to ask: why in the hell would you bother to see that?

Basically I’m weirdly fascinated by it. I was terrified of the monkey toy from Toy Story 3 and now I feel somewhat obligated to see this I don’t know it’s a strange feeling.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Evil Dead has stood the test of time

Shop smart. Shop S-Mart!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What does comic book movies have to do with comedic horror movies

Evil Dead has stood the test of time

We’ve already been over this…I got confused

My bad

 

[BrianLo]

How Disney Saved $55.5 Million On ‘Snow White’ Remake

For a film based on one of the most famous stories of all time, the production of Disney's upcoming live action remake of Snow White has been anything but a fairytale.

www.forbes.com

Disney Reveals ‘Snow White’ Remake Is Set To Blow Its Budget

Disney has revealed that the cost of making its live action Snow White ballooned to $269.4 million by the end of 2023 putting it on course to blow its budget more than a year before release.

www.forbes.com

Please, please, any other author. This particular author has been shown to misconstrue data over and over again. She is not a journalist, she’s a glorified blogger.

In a year we’ll have a breathless meandering (but self-plagerized) update that the production now costs 380M. But that will just bury the lead that it’s the 240 variety reported and the 140 (or 100, or 180) Disney spent on marketing the production.

Any other source. Literally any other source, I beg everyone. I’ll take the rage youtubers, because at least it’s more apparent to random onlookers the source validity. Forbes makes it seem more legitimate than it is.



So rhetorical question for everyone. Why is the presumption that when Disney overruns costs on productions that leads to the immediate assumption they’ll overspend on marketing? They’ll cost cut away at the parks, but movies have no leash? And yet the mantra that marketing is fixed and predetermined remains.

 

[Disstevefan1]

They’ll cost cut away at the parks, but movies have no leash?

Yes of course.

This is Disney's Standard Operating Procedure.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Please, please, any other author. This particular author has been shown to misconstrue data over and over again. She is not a journalist, she’s a glorified blogger.

In a year we’ll have a breathless meandering (but self-plagerized) update that the production now costs 380M. But that will just bury the lead that it’s the 240 variety reported and the 140 (or 100, or 180) Disney spent on marketing the production.

Any other source. Literally any other source, I beg everyone. I’ll take the rage youtubers, because at least it’s more apparent to random onlookers the source validity. Forbes makes it seem more legitimate than it is.



So rhetorical question for everyone. Why is the presumption that when Disney overruns costs on productions that leads to the immediate assumption they’ll overspend on marketing? They’ll cost cut away at the parks, but movies have no leash? And yet the mantra that marketing is fixed and predetermined remains.

There’s a shell game going on with these budgets

Cap 4 went through extensive reshoots…so what did it really cost?

 

[BrianLo]

There’s a shell game going on with these budgets

Cap 4 went through extensive reshoots…so what did it really cost?

As I’ve been told. But when I try and find it in the quarterlies, nothing all our quarterback profiteers project ever materializes.

Mark my words, they will spend 400-500 million EACH on Cap 4 and Snow White when all is said and done. Yea, you heard me right. But not in the breakdown that everyone keeps trying to massage it into.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

My turn for an essay, as things converged before me in the last few days.

1. I heard parts of a long interview with Kevin Costner, probably rerun from several months ago. He kind of brought me back to Earth talking about filmmaking as I suspected/had always heard it was done vs. the often cynical accusations made here.

One thing that struck me was in post-production for The Bodyguard: test audiences were not reacting great, and Costner was in a room with the studio people watching it, and the studio said basically oh well, guess that’s as good as that’s going to get - but Costner knew it was missing about 15 minutes of story. The studio argued it was already too long. So, he personally worked through the night, cutting 10 seconds here and 15 seconds there, to decrease the run time while adding needed story back in. That was the version that was successful.

It came down to one person.

2. I finally saw Joker 2, having heard all kinds of criticisms. I don’t think that film was bad at all. I don’t consider it “a musical” a la Grease, but I understand it wasn’t what bro-nation expected.

I think Joker 2 could have used a touch like Kevin Costner’s to trim the bloat - the slower or unnecessary moments. That could have made the difference in its pacing and reception. Side note: I thought Gaga was excellent.

The larger point is there are so many things that can go wrong in making a hit movie. It can come down to the will of one person, and the power of any one director or actor at that moment in their career. It’s somebody’s pet project, but they won’t get their way on every point, or an unlimited budget.

It’s very easy to see how a project can get jumbled, and then run out of money to make it perfect, and you just have to release it to get something back.

Business is not idealistic. There will always be push and pull between the creatives and the bean counters. You need both, like Walt & Roy.

If not for the studio reeling Costner in, The Bodyguard may have been 15 minutes longer and not as good. If not for Costner, it may have been released with a confusing storyline and been an embarrassment for him and Whitney.

 

[TP2000]

Around 700 million looks like the average.

The production budget for Disney’s Snow White is at $269.4 million as of December 2023, from Disney’s financial filings reported by Forbes.

Another Forbes article from December 6, 2024, detailed a $55.5 million tax rebate from the UK’s Audio-Visual Expenditure Credit, reducing the net production cost to $213.9 million

The $140 million marketing cost is an assumption based on trends for similar Disney live-action remakes like TLM where marketing was $140 million for a $250 million production, a 56% ratio.

A simple 50% split yields roughly $708 million.

My assumption is the 140 million marketing/advertising cost and I could be wrong on that but it seems in line with industry norms.

How Disney Saved $55.5 Million On ‘Snow White’ Remake

For a film based on one of the most famous stories of all time, the production of Disney's upcoming live action remake of Snow White has been anything but a fairytale.

www.forbes.com

Disney Reveals ‘Snow White’ Remake Is Set To Blow Its Budget

Disney has revealed that the cost of making its live action Snow White ballooned to $269.4 million by the end of 2023 putting it on course to blow its budget more than a year before release.

www.forbes.com

Very interesting, thank you! This will be helpful to use next month as we track Snow White.

And as Captain America 4 is already fading fast, it appears Miss White will have Disney's box office all to herself.

Please, please, any other author. This particular author has been shown to misconstrue data over and over again. She is not a journalist, she’s a glorified blogger.

In a year we’ll have a breathless meandering (but self-plagerized) update that the production now costs 380M. But that will just bury the lead that it’s the 240 variety reported and the 140 (or 100, or 180) Disney spent on marketing the production.

Any other source. Literally any other source, I beg everyone. I’ll take the rage youtubers, because at least it’s more apparent to random onlookers the source validity. Forbes makes it seem more legitimate than it is.



So rhetorical question for everyone. Why is the presumption that when Disney overruns costs on productions that leads to the immediate assumption they’ll overspend on marketing? They’ll cost cut away at the parks, but movies have no leash? And yet the mantra that marketing is fixed and predetermined remains.

I'll trust you that this particular author is not someone you'd invite to a dinner party.

That said, this did appear in Forbes. While it's not 1995 any more, and journalism and news magazines are not the force they once were, it's Forbes. There has to still be a couple of editors and a skeleton crew of a legal department on the payroll there.

I'd trust an article in Forbes a heckuva lot more than I'd trust a raging YouTuber broadcasting from their bedroom.

Forbes

Forbes is a global media company, focusing on business, investing, technology, entrepreneurship, leadership, and lifestyle.

www.forbes.com

 

[MagicMouseFan]

Please, please, any other author. This particular author has been shown to misconstrue data over and over again. She is not a journalist, she’s a glorified blogger.

In a year we’ll have a breathless meandering (but self-plagerized) update that the production now costs 380M. But that will just bury the lead that it’s the 240 variety reported and the 140 (or 100, or 180) Disney spent on marketing the production.

Any other source. Literally any other source, I beg everyone. I’ll take the rage youtubers, because at least it’s more apparent to random onlookers the source validity. Forbes makes it seem more legitimate than it is.



So rhetorical question for everyone. Why is the presumption that when Disney overruns costs on productions that leads to the immediate assumption they’ll overspend on marketing? They’ll cost cut away at the parks, but movies have no leash? And yet the mantra that marketing is fixed and predetermined remains.

I'm not going to play that game and debate whether Forbes and Caroline Reid are credible—I believe their reporting.

They've cited Disney’s financial filings showing Snow White’s production cost at $269.4 million by the end of 2023, and that’s solid enough for me.

If you have a problem with it, please don’t point the finger at me as the reader; be proactive and contact Forbes directly to prove she’s wrong.

You can reach out to them via their official contact page at Forbes Contact Us, or email their editorial team at feedback@forbes.com—that’s where you can submit complaints or evidence to challenge her work.

Why should I trust you, BrianLo? Why should you trust me? All we are are glorified WDWForum Users, tossing around opinions on a message board. Forbes has the resources and access to Disney’s filings; we’re just fans speculating. Let’s see what Forbes says if you take it up with them.

 

[brideck]

Please, please, any other author. This particular author has been shown to misconstrue data over and over again. She is not a journalist, she’s a glorified blogger.

At risk of giving someone more unneeded homework, do we have a way to compare her previous articles citing budget totals with what was ultimately reported for those same movies in the end-of-year tale of the tape? Not sure if that's data you already have relatively near your fingertips or not. (Maybe it's even a post you already made 500 pages ago. I don't remember one, but what do I know?) I certainly don't.

 

[MagicMouseFan]

At risk of giving someone more unneeded homework, do we have a way to compare her previous articles citing budget totals with what was ultimately reported for those same movies in the end-of-year tale of the tape? Not sure if that's data you already have relatively near your fingertips or not. (Maybe it's even a post you already made 500 pages ago. I don't remember one, but what do I know?) I certainly don't.

This is what I found using the Wonka computer:

- The Little Mermaid (2023): Reid’s article from May 2023, “The Little Mermaid’s Box Office Hopes Are Swimming Against The Current” Forbes: The Little Mermaid’s Box Office Hopes Are Swimming Against The Current, reported a production budget of $250 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: The Little Mermaid (2023) is $250,000,000, matching exactly.



- Lightyear (2022): Reid’s article from June 2022, “‘Lightyear’ Is Off To A Disappointing Start At The Box Office” Forbes: ‘Lightyear’ Is Off To A Disappointing Start At The Box Office, reported $200 million production budget, plus $100 million marketing. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Lightyear (2022) is $200,000,000, matching production.



- Thor: Love and Thunder (2022): Reid’s article from July 2022, “‘Thor: Love And Thunder’ Is Set To Have A Mighty Opening Weekend” Forbes: ‘Thor: Love And Thunder’ Is Set To Have A Mighty Opening Weekend, reported approximately $250 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Thor: Love and Thunder (2022) is $250,000,000, matching.



- Black Widow (2021): Reid’s article from July 2021, “‘Black Widow’ Is Set To Have A Solid Opening Weekend At The Box Office” Forbes: ‘Black Widow’ Is Set To Have A Solid Opening Weekend At The Box Office, reported approximately $200 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Black Widow (2021) is $200,000,000, matching.



- Avatar: The Way of Water (2022): Reid’s article from December 2022, “‘Avatar: The Way Of Water’ Is Set To Have A Massive Opening Weekend” Forbes: ‘Avatar: The Way Of Water’ Is Set To Have A Massive Opening Weekend, reported $350 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022) is $350,000,000, matching.



- Mission: Impossible – Dead Reckoning Part One (2023): Reid’s article from July 2023, “‘Mission: Impossible – Dead Reckoning Part One’ Is Set To Have A Strong Opening Weekend” Forbes: ‘Mission: Impossible – Dead Reckoning Part One’ Is Set To Have A Strong Opening Weekend, reported $290 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Mission: Impossible – Dead Reckoning Part One (2023) is $290,000,000, matching.



- The Flash (2023): Reid’s article from June 2023, “‘The Flash’ Is Set To Have A Disappointing Opening Weekend” Forbes: ‘The Flash’ Is Set To Have A Disappointing Opening Weekend, reported $200 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: The Flash (2023) is $200,000,000, matching.



- Wonder Woman 1984 (2020): Reid’s article from December 2020, “‘Wonder Woman 1984’ Is Set To Have A Strong Opening Weekend On HBO Max And In Theaters” Forbes: ‘Wonder Woman 1984’ Is Set To Have A Strong Opening Weekend On HBO Max And In Theaters, reported $200 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Wonder Woman 1984 (2020) is $200,000,000, matching.



- Tenet (2020): Reid’s article from August 2020, “‘Tenet’ Is Set To Have A Strong Opening Weekend At The Box Office” Forbes: ‘Tenet’ Is Set To Have A Strong Opening Weekend At The Box Office, reported $205 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Tenet (2020) is $205,000,000, matching.

 

[BrianLo]

At risk of giving someone more unneeded homework, do we have a way to compare her previous articles citing budget totals with what was ultimately reported for those same movies in the end-of-year tale of the tape? Not sure if that's data you already have relatively near your fingertips or not. (Maybe it's even a post you already made 500 pages ago. I don't remember one, but what do I know?) I certainly don't.

The author doesn’t understand the fractioning of the marketing spend being run through the production (the portions not eligible for the UK tax exemption). She doesn’t present that in these tables she’s made.

My complaints on this author are unending and I didn’t even realize they were the ones producing these budgetary articles until a month ago. I actually started out complaining that she was using AI written articles on Tokyo Disney a year or so ago.

You can compared to deadline tables how the final totals she often presents are actually the summed total of the production budget and marketing spend.

Forbes has the resources and access to Disney’s filings; we’re just fans speculating. Let’s see what Forbes says if you take it up with them.

Forbes does, the unchecked blogger doesn’t. There’s often nothing actually cited in the articles if you actually poke at them. It’s empty public conference call quotes and copies of their filings. Often ones she re-quotes across ten different articles. She has a mandate to produce an article a day so a lot of them are vapid and repetitive.

But you are correct, I probably should complain to their editorial board. I’ve been slowly accumulating complaints. I think the plagerization one is the sticking point.

That said, this did appear in Forbes. While it's not 1995 any more, and journalism and news magazines are not the force they once were, it's Forbes.

It’s more the blog platform. Not the news site. There isn’t editorial oversight on these articles, but yes I suppose someone internally will care.

 

[BrianLo]

This is what I found using the Wonka computer:
View attachment 845978

- The Little Mermaid (2023): Reid’s article from May 2023, “The Little Mermaid’s Box Office Hopes Are Swimming Against The Current” Forbes: The Little Mermaid’s Box Office Hopes Are Swimming Against The Current, reported a production budget of $250 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: The Little Mermaid (2023) is $250,000,000, matching exactly.



- Lightyear (2022): Reid’s article from June 2022, “‘Lightyear’ Is Off To A Disappointing Start At The Box Office” Forbes: ‘Lightyear’ Is Off To A Disappointing Start At The Box Office, reported $200 million production budget, plus $100 million marketing. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Lightyear (2022) is $200,000,000, matching production.



- Thor: Love and Thunder (2022): Reid’s article from July 2022, “‘Thor: Love And Thunder’ Is Set To Have A Mighty Opening Weekend” Forbes: ‘Thor: Love And Thunder’ Is Set To Have A Mighty Opening Weekend, reported approximately $250 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Thor: Love and Thunder (2022) is $250,000,000, matching.



- Black Widow (2021): Reid’s article from July 2021, “‘Black Widow’ Is Set To Have A Solid Opening Weekend At The Box Office” Forbes: ‘Black Widow’ Is Set To Have A Solid Opening Weekend At The Box Office, reported approximately $200 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Black Widow (2021) is $200,000,000, matching.



- Avatar: The Way of Water (2022): Reid’s article from December 2022, “‘Avatar: The Way Of Water’ Is Set To Have A Massive Opening Weekend” Forbes: ‘Avatar: The Way Of Water’ Is Set To Have A Massive Opening Weekend, reported $350 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022) is $350,000,000, matching.



- Mission: Impossible – Dead Reckoning Part One (2023): Reid’s article from July 2023, “‘Mission: Impossible – Dead Reckoning Part One’ Is Set To Have A Strong Opening Weekend” Forbes: ‘Mission: Impossible – Dead Reckoning Part One’ Is Set To Have A Strong Opening Weekend, reported $290 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Mission: Impossible – Dead Reckoning Part One (2023) is $290,000,000, matching.



- The Flash (2023): Reid’s article from June 2023, “‘The Flash’ Is Set To Have A Disappointing Opening Weekend” Forbes: ‘The Flash’ Is Set To Have A Disappointing Opening Weekend, reported $200 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: The Flash (2023) is $200,000,000, matching.



- Wonder Woman 1984 (2020): Reid’s article from December 2020, “‘Wonder Woman 1984’ Is Set To Have A Strong Opening Weekend On HBO Max And In Theaters” Forbes: ‘Wonder Woman 1984’ Is Set To Have A Strong Opening Weekend On HBO Max And In Theaters, reported $200 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Wonder Woman 1984 (2020) is $200,000,000, matching.



- Tenet (2020): Reid’s article from August 2020, “‘Tenet’ Is Set To Have A Strong Opening Weekend At The Box Office” Forbes: ‘Tenet’ Is Set To Have A Strong Opening Weekend At The Box Office, reported $205 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Tenet (2020) is $205,000,000, matching.

These are not the ones that are questioned. These she’s sourcing from the trades. It’s the ones she’s sourcing from UK tax filings she doesn’t understand I’m complaining about.

Edit - also lol at the title of these articles with the one exception of little mermaid. I think that establishes my point pretty nicely.

 

[Chi84]

This is what I found using the Wonka computer:
View attachment 845978

- The Little Mermaid (2023): Reid’s article from May 2023, “The Little Mermaid’s Box Office Hopes Are Swimming Against The Current” Forbes: The Little Mermaid’s Box Office Hopes Are Swimming Against The Current, reported a production budget of $250 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: The Little Mermaid (2023) is $250,000,000, matching exactly.



- Lightyear (2022): Reid’s article from June 2022, “‘Lightyear’ Is Off To A Disappointing Start At The Box Office” Forbes: ‘Lightyear’ Is Off To A Disappointing Start At The Box Office, reported $200 million production budget, plus $100 million marketing. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Lightyear (2022) is $200,000,000, matching production.



- Thor: Love and Thunder (2022): Reid’s article from July 2022, “‘Thor: Love And Thunder’ Is Set To Have A Mighty Opening Weekend” Forbes: ‘Thor: Love And Thunder’ Is Set To Have A Mighty Opening Weekend, reported approximately $250 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Thor: Love and Thunder (2022) is $250,000,000, matching.



- Black Widow (2021): Reid’s article from July 2021, “‘Black Widow’ Is Set To Have A Solid Opening Weekend At The Box Office” Forbes: ‘Black Widow’ Is Set To Have A Solid Opening Weekend At The Box Office, reported approximately $200 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Black Widow (2021) is $200,000,000, matching.



- Avatar: The Way of Water (2022): Reid’s article from December 2022, “‘Avatar: The Way Of Water’ Is Set To Have A Massive Opening Weekend” Forbes: ‘Avatar: The Way Of Water’ Is Set To Have A Massive Opening Weekend, reported $350 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022) is $350,000,000, matching.



- Mission: Impossible – Dead Reckoning Part One (2023): Reid’s article from July 2023, “‘Mission: Impossible – Dead Reckoning Part One’ Is Set To Have A Strong Opening Weekend” Forbes: ‘Mission: Impossible – Dead Reckoning Part One’ Is Set To Have A Strong Opening Weekend, reported $290 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Mission: Impossible – Dead Reckoning Part One (2023) is $290,000,000, matching.



- The Flash (2023): Reid’s article from June 2023, “‘The Flash’ Is Set To Have A Disappointing Opening Weekend” Forbes: ‘The Flash’ Is Set To Have A Disappointing Opening Weekend, reported $200 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: The Flash (2023) is $200,000,000, matching.



- Wonder Woman 1984 (2020): Reid’s article from December 2020, “‘Wonder Woman 1984’ Is Set To Have A Strong Opening Weekend On HBO Max And In Theaters” Forbes: ‘Wonder Woman 1984’ Is Set To Have A Strong Opening Weekend On HBO Max And In Theaters, reported $200 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Wonder Woman 1984 (2020) is $200,000,000, matching.



- Tenet (2020): Reid’s article from August 2020, “‘Tenet’ Is Set To Have A Strong Opening Weekend At The Box Office” Forbes: ‘Tenet’ Is Set To Have A Strong Opening Weekend At The Box Office, reported $205 million. Final budget from Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo: Tenet (2020) is $205,000,000, matching.

For those of us who don't know, how does Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo get accurate final budget information?

 

[MagicMouseFan]

The author doesn’t understand the fractioning of the marketing spend being run through the production (the portions not eligible for the UK tax exemption). She doesn’t present that in these tables she’s made.

My complaints on this author are unending and I didn’t even realize they were the ones producing these budgetary articles until a month ago. I actually started out complaining that she was using AI written articles on Tokyo Disney a year or so ago.

You can compared to deadline tables how the final totals she often presents are actually the summed total of the production budget and marketing spend.



Forbes does, the unchecked blogger doesn’t. There’s often nothing actually cited in the articles if you actually poke at them. It’s empty public conference call quotes and copies of their filings. Often ones she re-quotes across ten different articles. She has a mandate to produce an article a day so a lot of them are vapid and repetitive.

But you are correct, I probably should complain to their editorial board. I’ve been slowly accumulating complaints. I think the plagerization one is the sticking point.



It’s more the blog platform. Not the news site. There isn’t editorial oversight on these articles, but yes I suppose someone internally will care.

Again, you can reach out to them via their official contact page at Forbes Contact Us, or email their editorial team at feedback@forbes.com—that’s where you can submit complaints or evidence to challenge her work.

If you have proof, show the facts and put her in her place and report her to Forbes.

Until then her work should stand.

 

[BrianLo]

For those of us who don't know, how does Box Office Mojo Box Office Mojo get accurate final budget information?

It doesn’t. It’s the same information reported by the trades.

Just for the record here everyone, I’m calling into question when Forbes (one blogger with no definitive source) posts DIFFERING information from every other site. Deadline, Hollywood Reporter and Variety. They can’t both be right, someone has to be wrong. So either Caroline is right or everyone else is.

If you have proof, show the facts and put her in her place and report her to Forbes.

Until then her work should stand.

Perfect, so then how would you like me to deal with every other source? Deadline and variety are on the outs?