Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Tony the Tigger]

What’s a strong film? What’s a success?

The new number one movie, just released, is projected to have done around $3m better than Mufasa - now in its 6th week.

Where will Flight Risk be in week 6? Nowhere.

Where are the other films that knocked Mufasa out of the top spot on a Friday? Nowhere.

Where is Sonic, thought to be the decisive champ 6 weeks ago? A few spots and a few million down the list. (Anyone here deriding Sonic as a failure?) I guess some thought it was more compelling to see first, but as I suggested previously (to objections of, “It’s so expensive”) people don’t only go to the movies once a year. They went and saw Sonic, and then saw M:TLK in subsequent weeks.

Mufasa is a success. It was well-done. You can nitpick about certain things like you can with most movies. Not everything is a billion dollar juggernaut. Maybe the next one will be, on the strength of this one, after a year or two on D+.

Comparisons to a remake of one of the most beloved Disney films ever (2019) while not unreasonable, may have been unrealistic, and colored box office analysis accordingly.

And they’ve got another week to leg it out.

Cue ZZ Top: “She’s got legs…she knows how to use them.”

 

[erasure fan1]

Wasn’t this a strike delay? The film was shot before the strikes and the reshoot occurred after.

That didn't help I'm sure. The strike ended in the very beginning of Nov 23. It will be 15 months or so to release. That's a bit long in my opinion for a film that had normal reshoots as you guys call them. There's rescheduling/ reshuffling... I get it.

I think you are trying to read too much into things that have more straightforward explanations.

That's just the thing, I'm really not. I think you and Irish are reading too much into what I am saying. There are warning signs that say, hey there might be an issue. That's all. With Cap 4, It's not really just a long delay. It was a longer than normal reshoot time from what it looks to be normal. Adding in characters so late. None of it means the movie is doomed or anything like that. But as you even said, they had a really long time to have the executives go over the film with a fine tooth comb. That can be a red flag as well. How many times do executives stick their noses in things and it turns out for the better? Not often I would guess.

but it really doesn’t strike me as an intrinsically troubled production.

That's just it, neither do I. Just because I think something has a red flag, doesn't mean the whole productions gone to hell. I wouldn't really say this was a text book production either. There's question marks regardless of if people want to see them. If you won't champion the film, there's got to be something off to make you think that. I'm a Mackie fan, I hope the movie is good. But if it turns out less than stellar, it won't shock me in the least.

 

[MagicMouseFan]

For the record, I believe the new Captain America movie is going to perform really well at the box office.

 

[Disney Irish]

At least they are waiting to start filming until they get the script right. That's far preferable to spending millions of dollars filming a movie with a bad script and then reshooting the whole thing after poor test screenings.

Oh I agree, but this is what I consider a “troubled” production and what would give me what others call “red-flags”. Basically it’s stuck in Development Hell and I’m not sure it’ll ever come out of it at this point. Blade may just need to be introduced in other films and stay there for awhile before getting his own solo film.

All this other stuff being talked about by others regarding Cap 4 is just normal Hollywood.

 

[BrianLo]

That didn't help I'm sure. The strike ended in the very beginning of Nov 23. It will be 15 months or so to release. That's a bit long in my opinion for a film that had normal reshoots as you guys call them. There's rescheduling/ reshuffling... I get it.

It’s quite normal given the strike interruption context. Every other dated MCU film faced a similar delay interval. I actually think Avengers is the far more troubled production historically (other than blade, which is really troubled), but that also now seems resolved in the Avengers context. Many other Disney films faced a full year delay. Even things we aren’t worried about, like Fire and Ash.

I’ve just been around long enough that really nothing about this project has major red flags… other than I don’t have excitement to begin with.

If you won't champion the film, there's got to be something off to make you think that.

I didn’t like Falcon and the Winter Soldier, nothing to do with this films production.

 

[erasure fan1]

I actually think Avengers is the far more troubled production historically

I agree. Again, I don't think it's a troubled production. Are there things that, in my eyes, raise some questions? Absolutely. For me, it's something to pay attention to. If it's all good in your books, great.

I’ve just been around long enough that really nothing about this project has major red flags… other than I don’t have excitement to begin with.

Again, I didn't say major. I've been around long enough as well that when certain things start coming out of a production, it might have some issues. As I also said, none of it really matters. In the end the proof is in the pudding. If you're interested in that kind of stuff, maybe you pay attention to it. If that's not your kind of thing., great, no harm.

 

[BrianLo]

I agree. Again, I don't think it's a troubled production. Are there things that, in my eyes, raise some questions? Absolutely. For me, it's something to pay attention to. If it's all good in your books, great.

Again, I didn't say major. I've been around long enough as well that when certain things start coming out of a production, it might have some issues. As I also said, none of it really matters. In the end the proof is in the pudding. If you're interested in that kind of stuff, maybe you pay attention to it. If that's not your kind of thing., great, no harm.

I think we fully agree. This is just comes down to a semantic choice of words, from my end it also doesn’t matter reading your actual thoughts.

Like the great modesty debate of December 2024. May it live in glory.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Wicked has passed Dune: Part 2 to become the 5th highest grossing film worldwide of 2024.

It's still at #3 domestically, but Moana 2 may have a chance to take that spot.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Your definition of a blog must be dramatically different than mine, and Vulture hasn't been run anything like one for at least 10-15 years.

Also I'm not sure how that label would cheapen the journalism being done here? A lot of solid news in today's media environment comes from places that are not decades-old insider-style press.

Journalism is done when the journalist picks up the phone and calls first-hand sources. Or they're interviewing the news-maker.

Blogging is when people read the journalistic print and reports and opines about it without fact-checking.

The about page for Vulture doesn't give the impression that *journalism* is being done. It even lumps its owner, New York Magazine, as an "influential editorial property."

Vulture - About Us

Vulture is a New York Magazine site providing continuous entertainment news.

www.vulture.com

Then there is this:

Vulture​

Main article: Vulture (website)​

​

Vulture was launched as a pop culture blog on NYMag.com in 2007. It moved to an independent web address, Vulture.com, in 2012. In 2018, New York Media acquired the comedy news blog Splitsider, folding the operation into the Vulture website.[69] ​

And this:

History​

​

Vulture debuted in April 2007 as an entertainment blog on nymag.com, the website of New York Magazine.[2] Melissa Maerz and Dan Kois were the founding editors.[2][4] The initial focus was television and film news, especially recaps of recent television episodes.[5][6] Over time, it expanded to publish news and criticism in other areas of high and low culture, such as music, books, comedy, and podcasts.[5]​

​

In the process of spinning off from New York Magazine, Vulture's website was redesigned in 2010 from a blog format to look more like a "full-fledged" online magazine.[3][7] Vulture subsequently moved to an independent URL/domain (Vulture.com) in February 2012.[8] ​

New York (magazine) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Vulture (website) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[brideck]

Journalism is done when the journalist picks up the phone and calls first-hand sources. Or they're interviewing the news-maker.

Blogging is when people read the journalistic print and reports and opines about it without fact-checking.

The piece in question literally demonstrates that it's journalism by your definition:

"Sources I consulted, ranging from studio executives to hitmaking producers and high-level talent managers as well as on-set crew members..."

And then it proceeds to quote them.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The piece in question literally demonstrates that it's journalism by your definition:

"Sources I consulted, ranging from studio executives to hitmaking producers and high-level talent managers as well as on-set crew members..."

And then it proceeds to quote them.

Umm... OK... if that's the case, I stand corrected.

However... the idea that someone can pick up the phone and talk to a whole bunch of studio execs and hit-making producers is a bit credulous.

Someone with that level of access should be publishing scoop after scoop.

And not pass on people's characterization of the Red Hulk as being orange hued.

And how many studio executives does one need to talk to in order to find out what's happening with one film?

And the article is about a bunch of stuff happening in Hollywood (as much as I can tell, the article is pay-walled). So, maybe all those sources were about a bunch of stuff happening in Hollywood, but it was one lowly crew member who supposed that the Red Hulk's hue was orange and therefore problematic more than a half a year before the election...

And maybe this would be more credible if other sources weren't contradicting it...

 

[Casper Gutman]

And my point is that they're wrong according to actual journalistic trades and not a fan site.

As mentioned above, Vulture is part of New York Magazine. They are a credible outlet with strong editorial policies, not a fan site. You're a very good poster, Penguin, and you're above dismissing reliable news outlets because you don't like the content.

The reshoots may have taken place before the election, but they did not take place before a high-profile political assault on Disney or before Disney began altering content to placate its attackers.

And other sources aren't "contradicting" the story, they're offering information which is entirely compatible with Vulture's reporting. Reshoots might have had multiple purposes, or different reshoots (of which there have been several) might have had different purposes.

And harping on the red/orange thing is thin. The outrage machine wouldn't care about the distinction, and satire often alters details but leaves them close enough to make their point clear - witness the comedies of Shakespeare or the operettas of Gilbert and Sullivan.

We know, beyond any doubt, that Disney is altering content due to political pressure. It's odd to doubt they would do so here.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Even before the Vulture story, I wondered if Disney execs were upset about how the plots of the next two MCU products might be perceived by a government and its toadies eager to attack Hollywood in general and the Mouse in particular - Captain America features a militaristic, uncontrollable, irrational president battling with the symbol of America and Daredevil features a criminal, rage-prone public figure who is nonetheless elected mayor of New York and must be opposed by the hero.

I don't want to delve into spoilers, but the plotline of Captain America features a global conflict that must have seemed safely removed from reality when it was written but is likely to be taken as political commentary in the present moment. Disney's misfortune with Sam Wilson Captain America's fantastical storylines suddenly becoming relevant is actually very funny in an incredibly dark sort of way.

 

[Ghost93]

I don't want to delve into spoilers, but the plotline of Captain America features a global conflict that must have seemed safely removed from reality when it was written but is likely to be taken as political commentary in the present moment. Disney's misfortune with Sam Wilson Captain America's fantastical storylines suddenly becoming relevant is actually very funny in an incredibly dark sort of way.

Sometimes when a movie is released can completely change the meaning, regardless of the intent of the filmmakers.

For example, many are interpreting the Wizard as a Trump stand-in in the new Wicked movie, even though the story is a faithful adaptation of a musical from 2003 (when Bush was president) which was based on a book from the mid 90s (when Clinton was president).

 

[Disney Irish]

Sometimes when a movie is released can completely change the meaning, regardless of the intent of the filmmakers.

For example, many are interpreting the Wizard as a Trump stand-in in the new Wicked movie, even though the story is a faithful adaptation of a musical from 2003 (when Bush was president) which was based on a book from the mid 90s (when Clinton was president).

People read things into content all the time, doesn't make it true.

The human brain is a funny thing, seeing patterns where none exist, we're the only creature in existence to do this.

 

[MagicMouseFan]

You know that Vulture is just a blog, right?

Again.. I think Captain America will do great business but…
Was the piece by Chris Lee on Captain America wrong?
https://www.vulture.com/article/how-is-hollywood-preparing-for-the-trump-sequel.html

Other articles by Chris Lee

Chris Lee Author Archive​

 

[Disney Irish]

Again.. I think Captain America will do great business but…
Was the piece by Chris Lee on Captain America wrong?
https://www.vulture.com/article/how-is-hollywood-preparing-for-the-trump-sequel.html

Other articles by Chris Lee

Chris Lee Author Archive​

Given that the character existed long before the current White House occupants political career even began, I would say yes they are wrong. Like most of "journalism" today, its an opinion piece.

People will read anything they want into a situation, doesn't make it true.

 

[brideck]

Given that the character existed long before the current White House occupants political career even began, I would say yes they are wrong.

You're talking about Thunderbolt Ross here, yes? From what I can tell, he's never been President in the comics outside of a 4-issue arc in 2022's Hulk, which is set on some alternate Earth.

People will read anything they want into a situation, doesn't make it true.

It's not so much that writers have a specific person in mind when developing a character like this, but they'll certainly have an idea of what type of leader they're looking to portray. To wit, since somebody brought it up earlier, in Wicked, the Wizard was certainly inspired by Hitler and/or Saddam Hussein. So if people are viewing these characters as checking enough boxes to see other certain world leaders as similar, that says something about how the viewers/readers see that leader, not that the character was specifically written to portray them.

Do I believe that Disney would be seeking to minimize those sorts of associations in the current climate? Absolutely.

 

[Disney Irish]

You're talking about Thunderbolt Ross here, yes? From what I can tell, he's never been President in the comics outside of a 4-issue arc in 2022's Hulk, which is set on some alternate Earth.

It's not so much that writers have a specific person in mind when developing a character like this, but they'll certainly have an idea of what type of leader they're looking to portray. To wit, since somebody brought it up earlier, in Wicked, the Wizard was certainly inspired by Hitler and/or Saddam Hussein. So if people are viewing these characters as checking enough boxes to see other certain world leaders as similar, that says something about how the viewers/readers see that leader, not that the character was specifically written to portray that.

Yes, but this is where people are reading to much into things. Ross has long been a huge political figure in the comics, even if never officially president. And just because a writer may use inspiration from real world figures doesn't mean there are direct references that the real person that would require major reshoots to change it.

The very fact its only a "technical crew member" as quoted in the article and gets the characters color all wrong should give you all you need to know. They are just trying to look more important than they are. Its the Hollywood equivalent to the CM bus driver who talks to all the guests about all the latest insider info on the Parks, but never seemingly gets any of it right.

 

[brideck]

And just because a writer may use inspiration from real world figures doesn't mean there are direct references that the real person that would require major reshoots to change it.

No one, not even the "technical crew member" said that there were direct references to anyone. That would be an absolutely silly thing to do as a corporation trying to make mass entertainment in America in the 2020s. If there's enough inspiration present so that the creative DNA of that character is pretty obvious, though? That is not people "reading too much into things." That is an audience reading a story correctly. It's almost as if you don't think authorial intent is a thing.