Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[CinematicFusion]

You know that Vulture is just a blog, right?

Again.. I think Captain America will do great business but…
Was the piece by Chris Lee on Captain America wrong?
https://www.vulture.com/article/how-is-hollywood-preparing-for-the-trump-sequel.html

Other articles by Chris Lee

Chris Lee Author Archive​

 

[Disney Irish]

Again.. I think Captain America will do great business but…
Was the piece by Chris Lee on Captain America wrong?
https://www.vulture.com/article/how-is-hollywood-preparing-for-the-trump-sequel.html

Other articles by Chris Lee

Chris Lee Author Archive​

Given that the character existed long before the current White House occupants political career even began, I would say yes they are wrong. Like most of "journalism" today, its an opinion piece.

People will read anything they want into a situation, doesn't make it true.

 

[brideck]

Given that the character existed long before the current White House occupants political career even began, I would say yes they are wrong.

You're talking about Thunderbolt Ross here, yes? From what I can tell, he's never been President in the comics outside of a 4-issue arc in 2022's Hulk, which is set on some alternate Earth.

People will read anything they want into a situation, doesn't make it true.

It's not so much that writers have a specific person in mind when developing a character like this, but they'll certainly have an idea of what type of leader they're looking to portray. To wit, since somebody brought it up earlier, in Wicked, the Wizard was certainly inspired by Hitler and/or Saddam Hussein. So if people are viewing these characters as checking enough boxes to see other certain world leaders as similar, that says something about how the viewers/readers see that leader, not that the character was specifically written to portray them.

Do I believe that Disney would be seeking to minimize those sorts of associations in the current climate? Absolutely.

 

[Disney Irish]

You're talking about Thunderbolt Ross here, yes? From what I can tell, he's never been President in the comics outside of a 4-issue arc in 2022's Hulk, which is set on some alternate Earth.

It's not so much that writers have a specific person in mind when developing a character like this, but they'll certainly have an idea of what type of leader they're looking to portray. To wit, since somebody brought it up earlier, in Wicked, the Wizard was certainly inspired by Hitler and/or Saddam Hussein. So if people are viewing these characters as checking enough boxes to see other certain world leaders as similar, that says something about how the viewers/readers see that leader, not that the character was specifically written to portray that.

Yes, but this is where people are reading to much into things. Ross has long been a huge political figure in the comics, even if never officially president. And just because a writer may use inspiration from real world figures doesn't mean there are direct references that the real person that would require major reshoots to change it.

The very fact its only a "technical crew member" as quoted in the article and gets the characters color all wrong should give you all you need to know. They are just trying to look more important than they are. Its the Hollywood equivalent to the CM bus driver who talks to all the guests about all the latest insider info on the Parks, but never seemingly gets any of it right.

 

[brideck]

And just because a writer may use inspiration from real world figures doesn't mean there are direct references that the real person that would require major reshoots to change it.

No one, not even the "technical crew member" said that there were direct references to anyone. That would be an absolutely silly thing to do as a corporation trying to make mass entertainment in America in the 2020s. If there's enough inspiration present so that the creative DNA of that character is pretty obvious, though? That is not people "reading too much into things." That is an audience reading a story correctly. It's almost as if you don't think authorial intent is a thing.

 

[Disney Irish]

Do I believe that Disney would be seeking to minimize those sorts of associations in the current climate? Absolutely.

I think there were changes made to the movie due to other real world events, without going into too much detail but related to a group known as the Serpent Society in the comics, not due to anything related to the current White House occupant.

 

[Disney Irish]

No one, not even the "technical crew member" said that there were direct references to anyone. That would be an absolutely silly thing to do as a corporation trying to make mass entertainment in America in the 2020s. If there's enough inspiration present so that the creative DNA of that character is pretty obvious, though? That is not people "reading too much into things." That is an audience reading a story correctly. It's almost as if you don't think authorial intent is a thing.

I think people are reading too much into an opinion piece article that has a quote from a "technical crew member" that directly references a "orange-hued" character. If you don't think that isn't a direct reference trying to be made by that crew member, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

 

[brideck]

I think there were changes made to the movie due to other real world events, without going into too much detail but related to a group known as the Serpent Society in the comics, not due to anything related to the current White House occupant.

You've insisted on this repeatedly. And no one here has actually disagreed with you on this. They actually had a stronger leg to stand on with leaving the Ruth character alone since they were more or less just portraying her as she was conceived in the comics.

Why would it be hard to believe that changes were made to weaken associations between the real world and the movie's characters in multiple instances?

 

[brideck]

I think people are reading too much into an opinion piece article that has a quote from a "technical crew member" that directly references a "orange-hued" character. If you don't think that isn't a direct reference trying to be made by that crew member, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

I don't think that's the crew member's reference being made, though. They're just the source for the rationale behind some changes.

This thing has been in front of test audiences/execs, and I'd totally believe that Ross's character is an association that some of them were able to make.

 

[Disney Irish]

You've insisted on this repeatedly. And no one here has actually disagreed with you on this. They actually had a stronger leg to stand on with leaving the Ruth character alone since they were more or less just portraying her as she was conceived in the comics.

Why would it be hard to believe that changes were made to weaken associations between the real world and the movie's characters in multiple instances?

This is actually the first time I've brought up that group from the comics in relation to this movie, so not sure what you're talking about with "repeatedly". Also as for Ruth, I'm not sure how much she is left in the movie. Rumors were they cut her entire arc out of the movie, again due to real world events.

I don't think it hard to believe they make changes because of real world events. I don't think however changes were made to Ross's character because of it.

 

[Disney Irish]

I don't think that's the crew member's reference being made, though. They're just the source for the rationale behind some changes.

This thing has been in front of test audiences/execs, and I'd totally believe that Ross's character is an association that some of them were able to make.

If you believe that changes were made for those reasons, which I do not. Because if people can't tell the different between Red and Orange, well then I don't know what to tell them. Red Hulk and Ross have been part of the same story line since 2008. So maybe this "technical crew member" doesn't know the comics, or maybe they are color blind, but to describe him as "orange-hued" is trying to evoke a specific visual and direct reference.

 

[brideck]

This is actually the first time I've brought up that group from the comics in relation to this movie, so not sure what you're talking about with "repeatedly".

I was thinking that your talking about the Serpent Society was somehow a reference to the Ruth character, because that's the one thing that people definitely seem to have a consensus on being changed pretty significantly (and it's already come up a lot in this conversation, unless I've been misreading all of the other sly allusions previously). If you didn't mean that, I apologize. I know that Sidewinder was added to the movie for the reshoots, so maybe you meant that? Otherwise, no idea -- you've successfully been too oblique for me.

I don't think it hard to believe they make changes because of real world events. I don't think however changes were made to Ross's character because of it.

The beauty is that because we'll only ever get one version of the movie we'll never know, and I'm sure that any strong Florida DNA will have been filed off for the finished product, if it was ever there. But for me? An angry, warm-colored, authoritarian-leaning President of the United States? Yeah, I could see how that would check some boxes.

No one, not even the person quoted is saying that Red Hulk is orange. (They don't even actually use the word orange in the quote, that's the writer trying to cement the connection that the crew member talked about.) But it's not as if he's fire engine red, either...

 

[Disney Irish]

I was thinking that your talking about the Serpent Society was somehow a reference to the Ruth character, because that's the one thing that people definitely seem to have a consensus on being changed pretty significantly (and it's already come up a lot in this conversation). If you didn't mean that, I apologize. I know that Sidewinder was added to the movie for the reshoots, so maybe you meant that? Otherwise, no idea -- you've successfully been too oblique for me.

Nope, because unless I'm mistaken she was never part of Serpent Society in the comics. Which is why I don't where you got that reference from. I believe I might have mentioned Ruth in the Cap 4 thread months ago, but otherwise never brought her up even though I'm aware of her storyline also being cut or at least scaled way back.

As for Sidewinder, I don't know at this point if he will officially be part of Serpent Society in the movie or not. But other actors had their parts completely cut who were meant to be part of the group due to the groups removal from the storyline, specifically actor Seth Rollins.

The beauty is that because we'll only ever get one version of the movie, so we'll never know, and I'm sure that any strong Florida DNA will have been filed off for the finished product, if it were ever there. But for me? An angry, warm-colored, authoritarian-leaning President of the United States? Yeah, I could see how that would check some boxes.

Disagree

No one, not even the person quoted is saying that Red Hulk is orange. But it's not as if he's fire engine red, either...

I'm not sure then where they got "orange-hued" as quoted in the article if not to indicate that somehow Red Hulk gives off the orange color often associated with a certain White House occupant. Have you read it?

 

[brideck]

Nope, because unless I'm mistaken she was never part of Serpent Society in the comics. Which is why I don't where you got that reference from. I believe I might have mentioned Ruth in the Cap 4 thread months ago, but otherwise never brought her up even though I'm aware of her storyline also being cut or at least scaled way back.

I was thinking that MisterPenguin meant Ruth back when he said, "According to the trades, the tip-toeing was around one of the supporting actor's role as being from a country very much in the news and controversial..." Did I get that reference wrong?

As for Sidewinder, I don't know at this point if he will officially be part of Serpent Society in the movie or not. But other actors had their parts completely cut who were meant to be part of the group due to the groups removal from the storyline, specifically actor Seth Rollins.

Huh. I'll have to go find what you're talking about here.

Disagree

You... disagree that any potential audience member could make that connection? Because I just did, and I'm not even being facetious about it. You can also count me as someone who thinks that Wish was at least in part an unheeded warning against the seduction of authoritarianism.

I'm not sure then where they got "orange-hued" as quoted in the article if not to indicate that somehow Red Hulk gives off the orange color often associated with a certain White House occupant. Have you read it?

I have. The quote from the crew member was:
"He’s this very powerful general who becomes kind of a fascist and turns into a raging Red Hulk. That was seen as an allusion to T****. Disney was realizing, Hey, we’ve been bleeding for a while. Let’s try not to off our core base anymore than we have been over the past couple of years.”

 

[Disney Irish]

I was thinking that MisterPenguin meant Ruth back when he said, "According to the trades, the tip-toeing was around one of the supporting actor's role as being from a country very much in the news and controversial..." Did I get that reference wrong?

I can't speak for him, so he can respond to you directly. But possible he was speaking about her, I was not however.

Huh. I'll have to go find what you're talking about here.

You can quickly find it, it was a recent story where the actor basically confirms they were cut completely from the movie.

You... disagree that any potential audience member could make that connection? Because I just did, and I'm not even being facetious about it. You can also count me as someone who thinks that Wish was at least in part an unheeded warning against the seduction of authoritarianism.

Yep, I disagree, unless your mind is already primed to look for such reference I don't think any normal person would see Red Hulk and think he was somehow giving off a "orange-hue" in an direct or in-direct reference to a certain occupant of the White House. Sorry I just don't believe it, and I honestly don't believe you would have either unless this article wouldn't have put that idea into your head.

I have. The quote from the crew member was:
"He’s this very powerful general who becomes kind of a fascist and turns into a raging Red Hulk. That was seen as an allusion to T****. Disney was realizing, Hey, we’ve been bleeding for a while. Let’s try not to off our core base anymore than we have been over the past couple of years.”

I know what they were going for in the article. I'm saying I don't know why they got the idea that Red Hulk was "orange-hued" other than to try and evoke references to a specific person, which I doubt given the climate we've been in for the last 10 years that Marvel/Disney would have allowed their writers to make that direct reference even indirectly.

 

[Agent H]

I can't speak for him, so he can respond to you directly. But possible he was speaking about her, I was not however.


You can quickly find it, it was a recent story where the actor basically confirms they were cut completely from the movie.


Yep, I disagree, unless your mind is already primed to look for such reference I don't think any normal person would see Red Hulk and think he was somehow giving off a "orange-hue" in an direct or in-direct reference to a certain occupant of the White House. Sorry I just don't believe it, and I honestly don't believe you would have either unless this article wouldn't have put that idea into your head.


I know what they were going for in the article. I'm saying I don't know why they got the idea that Red Hulk was "orange-hued" other than to try and evoke references to a specific person, which I doubt given the climate we've been in for the last 10 years that Marvel/Disney would have allowed their writers to make that direct reference even indirectly.

I guess it’s because when red hulk slaps his hands together it creates fire I don’t know that’s the only thing I can think of.

 

[Disney Irish]

I guess it’s because when red hulk slaps his hands together it creates fire I don’t know that’s the only thing I can think of.

I think that's a stretch, but thanks for trying to figure it out.

 

[Agent H]

I think that's a stretch, but thanks for trying to figure it out.

Oh no seems like a stretch to me too but it’s the only thing I can think of this has been bothering me for 2 days now I was thinking about it and kept coming back to that and was always like no that can’t be it.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

So, yeah - Mufasa retook the top spot on Sunday.

 

[Disney Irish]

So, yeah - Mufasa retook the top spot on Sunday.

I think it shows that lack of anything major that people will go back for repeat viewings.

Hollywood may want to rethink the lack of major releases in January. Unless something changes, makes me think that Avatar 3 may get a full 2 months without any major competition when it releases in December. Disney is back to owning the holiday season.