Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[DKampy]

Unfortunately the general public has never truly cared about quality in the era of franchises. If they had we wouldn't have 11 and counting Fast and Furious movies all to varying degrees of success

It is not just a now problem….which is why we have so many Police Academy sequels and Adam Sandler movies

 

[celluloid]

Turns out family movies, animation and theaters are not all failing.

 

[DisneyWarrior27]

Now with the inevitability of Moana 2 making a billion thus making the experiment of turning a Disney+ series into a movie a success, there’s only one question… Will Disney turn Tiana into a sequel to The Princess and the Frog for a theatrical release in Thanksgiving 2029 and give it the needed money to make it fully 2D/hand-drawn animated?

Guess we’ll have to wait and see…

I would like to believe there will be C-suite level conversations at Disney about doing that when they come back from their holiday vacation tomorrow.

 

[Disney Irish]

Turns out family movies, animation and theaters are not all failing.

Its funny what a difference a year makes, however I don't think we're out of the woods yet to say one way or the other. Its going to take a few years of stellar box office before it can be said they aren't failing. Domestically theaters are still struggling, and we're still not if ever getting back to a prepandemic box office. AMC for example still has more than a few popcorn buckets full of debt they haven't taken care of yet, they've staved off going under for now, but that bill will come due soon. So unless things change for them that is one that may be lost. Regal isn't doing that much better even though they emerged recently from bankruptcy themselves. Cinemark is the only chain that seems solid for now. So when two of the three major chains still have financial troubles its still not clear how thing will shake out.

So yes things look rosy right now, but all it takes is another disruption for the house of cards to fall.

 

[Disney Irish]

Now with the inevitability of Moana 2 making a billion thus making the experiment of turning a Disney+ series into a movie a success, there’s only one question… Will Disney turn Tiana into a sequel to The Princess and the Frog for a theatrical release in Thanksgiving 2029 and give it the needed money to make it fully 2D/hand-drawn animated?

Guess we’ll have to wait and see…

I would like to believe there will be C-suite level conversations at Disney about doing that when they come back from their holiday vacation tomorrow.

I think it all depends on how far along they are in production. The thing that made it easy for Moana 2 to transition from a series to theatrical is they hadn't really started yet on the animation, only on the story (which I assume only had some rough storyboard animations done).

If the Tiana series, especially if its 2d hand drawn, has already started animation I don't see them spending the money to transition it to theatrical.

But we'll have to wait and see, anything is possible.

 

[Tha Realest]

It's happening mostly thanks to how beloved the original is. We should all be happy that the original is as much a classic as The Little Mermaid and Aladdin and receives the same treatment as they did by getting cheap sequels and a remake.

Taking Pixar out of the equation (and their record is mixed too) WDAS has an abysmal record in terms of sequels to their animated films.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Taking Pixar out of the equation (and their record is mixed too) WDAS has an abysmal record in terms of sequels to their animated films.

The direct-to-video sequels were done by Disney Toon Studios, not WDAS proper. Their sequels to date:

The Rescuers Down Under
Fantasia 2000
Winnie the Pooh (2011)
Ralph Breaks the Internet
Frozen 2
Moana 2*

+ the upcoming Zootopia 2 and Frozen 3 and 4

Having said that, I hope future sequels turn out better than their last 3

 

[DisneyWarrior27]

I think it all depends on how far along they are in production. The thing that made it easy for Moana 2 to transition from a series to theatrical is they hadn't really started yet on the animation, only on the story (which I assume only had some rough storyboard animations done).

If the Tiana series, especially if its 2d hand drawn, has already started animation I don't see them spending the money to transition it to theatrical.

But we'll have to wait and see, anything is possible.

From what I understand, the last I heard of Tiana was when I was at D23 and all they said was that it’s “now in production,” meaning it may have already started production in August.

So, compared to Moana 2, it’s early enough that they might be able to change course before it’s too far into the production process.

 

[DisneyWarrior27]

The direct-to-video sequels were done by Disney Toon Studios, not WDAS proper. Their sequels to date:

The Rescuers Down Under
Fantasia 2000
Winnie the Pooh (2011)
Ralph Breaks the Internet
Frozen 2
Moana 2*

+ the upcoming Zootopia 2 and Frozen 3 and 4

Having said that, I hope future sequels turn out better than their last 3

Don’t forget Tiana, since WDAS is also doing that.

 

[Disney Irish]

From what I understand, the last I heard of Tiana was when I was at D23 and all they said was that it’s “now in production,” meaning it may have already started production in August.

So, compared to Moana 2, it’s early enough that they might be able to change course before it’s too far into the production process.

Again it all depends on how far along they are in the process. I wasn't at the panel, but if they call it "in production" as you said that likely means they've already started animation since it takes a long time for hand drawn to be completed. So I can't see them transitioning it to theatrical, but stranger things have happened. So again we'll have to wait and see, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

 

[DisneyWarrior27]

Again it all depends on how far along they are in the process. I wasn't at the panel, but if they call it "in production" as you said that likely means they've already started animation since it takes a long time for hand drawn to be completed. So I can't see them transitioning it to theatrical, but stranger things have happened. So again we'll have to wait and see, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

They said “NOW in production,” meaning they had just started if they’re saying “NOW” in the street sense of what “NOW” means.

So, it could still change to a movie since it’s early enough but like you and I said, we’ll just have to wait and see.

 

[Disney Irish]

They said “NOW in production,” meaning they had just started if they’re saying “NOW” in the street sense of what “NOW” means.

So, it could still change to a movie since it’s early enough but like you and I said, we’ll just have to wait and see.

You're getting stuck on a single word. But if I say I'm now in production of my product, it means I started producing the product, ie its no longer in development stage. So that still indicates they've already started actual animation rather than just storyboarding it. You know as well as I do how long and how expensive hand drawn animation is, so if they started production on the actual hand drawn animation for a series its not likely for them to scrap it just to turn it in to a theatrical film.

So yes we'll have to wait and see, but as I said I wouldn't get my hopes up on this one. Especially since remember it was suppose to be released at the same time as the ride opening, so they are already behind schedule.

 

[doctornick]

Yup. Very off topic, but another big one for me is anti-hero TV. Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Penguin, etc. I've watched quite a bit and I can absolutely admire the craft and skill but on a profound level it just doesn't appeal to and sometimes even troubles me. I guess I don't want to root for the bad guy!

I know this is a bunch of pages back, but I am in agreement with this and will take it farther.

I like my entertainment to be a form of escapism and I hate the trend of making bad guys "misunderstood" or good guys having significant flaws. I'm much more a fan of characters being more explicitly "good" or "evil" and for a conflict to be one side you clearly want to root for and have that side "win".

I mean I'm fine with giving a villain a backstory or reason why they are evil, but they should be clearly in the wrong. Similarly, I'm okay for the hero to start off less good and have some redemption or development, but by the time they are the protagonist, I like them to be unequivocally on the side of being right.

I actually have a big problem with shows where the main characters are basically jerks or mean or hurtful people. If I'm investing in a show, I want to be able to root for the main characters and hope they succeed not be disappointed in their actions.

Sorry for my simple mindset, but I hate the trend that so much in entertainment has to have characters that are "nuanced". There's a place for it, but I feel the trend has pushed too far in that direction where it has invaded most films and shows.

 

[Ghost93]

I know this is a bunch of pages back, but I am in agreement with this and will take it farther.

I like my entertainment to be a form of escapism and I hate the trend of making bad guys "misunderstood" or good guys having significant flaws. I'm much more a fan of characters being more explicitly "good" or "evil" and for a conflict to be one side you clearly want to root for and have that side "win".

I mean I'm fine with giving a villain a backstory or reason why they are evil, but they should be clearly in the wrong. Similarly, I'm okay for the hero to start off less good and have some redemption or development, but by the time they are the protagonist, I like them to be unequivocally on the side of being right.

I actually have a big problem with shows where the main characters are basically jerks or mean or hurtful people. If I'm investing in a show, I want to be able to root for the main characters and hope they succeed not be disappointed in their actions.

Sorry for my simple mindset, but I hate the trend that so much in entertainment has to have characters that are "nuanced". There's a place for it, but I feel the trend has pushed too far in that direction where it has invaded most films and shows.

For a long time I wondered why this trend of reframing the villain as a hero didn't bother me with Wicked and why it did for Maleficent and Cruella. And I think I finally figured it out!

Wicked (the movie) is made by an entirely different company from the film studio that made the classic 1939 The Wizard of Oz and the author of the Wicked novel is not the same author as the original Oz books. As a result, I think of it as more of a fun alternate take of a classic story rather than an attempt to erase the legacy of the original. It can be viewed as a glorified fan fiction.

But when the Disney company itself remakes its own works with a revisionist spin, it feels like the company is trying to replace the original classics with the new live-action versions. And in an attempt to justify the existence of the live-action versions, the PR people at Disney will go out of their way to point out alleged flaws and problematic elements with the animated classics to justify the need for the live action remakes. They put down the classics to prop the new movies up.

Most people don't feel Wicked is putting down the Wizard of Oz because MGM Studios isn't ranting about how problematic it is that Margaret Hamilton's version of the Wicked Witch of the West is portrayed as pure evil and has no character depth.

 

[LittleBuford]

For a long time I wondered why this trend of reframing the villain as a hero didn't bother me with Wicked and why it did for Maleficent and Cruella. And I think I finally figured it out!

Wicked (the movie) is made by an entirely different company from the film studio that made the classic 1939 The Wizard of Oz and the author of the Wicked novel is not the same author as the original Oz books. As a result, I think of it as more of a fun alternate take of a classic story rather than an attempt to erase the legacy of the original. It can be viewed as a glorified fan fiction.

But when the Disney company itself remakes its own works with a revisionist spin, it feels like the company is trying to replace the original classics with the new live-action versions. And in an attempt to justify the existence of the live-action versions, the PR people at Disney will go out of their way to point out alleged flaws and problematic elements with the animated classics to justify the need for the live action remakes. They put down the classics to prop the new movies up.

Most people don't feel Wicked is putting down the Wizard of Oz because MGM Studios isn't ranting about how problematic it is that Margaret Hamilton's version of the Wicked Witch of the West is portrayed as pure evil and has no character depth.

I disagree. For me, Maleficent and Cruella are to the original animated films what Wicked is to The Wizard of Oz: fun alternative takes that can be enjoyed in their own right without reshaping one’s impressions of the earlier films. I really don’t get the claim that Disney is putting down the animated classics. If that were so, why do most portrayals of Maleficent and Cruella in the parks and in merch remain true to their original, evil characterisations?

ETA: Also, how is Disney “ranting” about these characters being problematic in their original forms?

 

[Ghost93]

I disagree. For me, Maleficent and Cruella are to the original animated films what Wicked is to The Wizard of Oz: fun alternative takes that can be enjoyed in their own right without reshaping one’s impressions of the earlier films. I really don’t get the claim that Disney is putting down the animated classics. If that were so, why do most portrayals of Maleficent and Cruella in the parks and in merch remain true to their original, evil characterisations?

I have somewhat come around Maleficient in recent years after being appalled by the creative bankruptcy of an almost shot-for-shot remake like 2019's The Lion King. However, back in 2014, I hated the movie as it was not at all what I wanted out of a Maleficent movie.

I do think Cruella is a legitimately good film, but it is a COMPLETELY different character from the one in 101 Dalmatians.

 

[Disney Irish]

I know this is a bunch of pages back, but I am in agreement with this and will take it farther.

I like my entertainment to be a form of escapism and I hate the trend of making bad guys "misunderstood" or good guys having significant flaws. I'm much more a fan of characters being more explicitly "good" or "evil" and for a conflict to be one side you clearly want to root for and have that side "win".

I mean I'm fine with giving a villain a backstory or reason why they are evil, but they should be clearly in the wrong. Similarly, I'm okay for the hero to start off less good and have some redemption or development, but by the time they are the protagonist, I like them to be unequivocally on the side of being right.

I actually have a big problem with shows where the main characters are basically jerks or mean or hurtful people. If I'm investing in a show, I want to be able to root for the main characters and hope they succeed not be disappointed in their actions.

Sorry for my simple mindset, but I hate the trend that so much in entertainment has to have characters that are "nuanced". There's a place for it, but I feel the trend has pushed too far in that direction where it has invaded most films and shows.

The problem is that many enjoy rooting for the bad guy and like when they are more grounded in reality and nuanced. This is the reason why many shows that were mentioned by other poster where the main protagonist is clearly bad but many times for good reasons are now seen as classics like Sopranos and Breaking Bad.

The world isn't black and white, and while some don't like to be reminded of that, many more accept they live in the grey area and struggle every day and so like to see themselves up on screen.

 

[LittleBuford]

I do think Cruella is a legitimately good film, but it is a COMPLETELY different character from the one in 101 Dalmatians.

Indeed. But the same goes for Elpheba and the live-action Maleficent in relation to their earlier counterparts.

 

[doctornick]

The problem is that many enjoy rooting for the bad guy and like when they are more grounded in reality and nuanced. This is the reason why many shows that were mentioned by other poster where the main protagonist is clearly bad but many times for good reasons are now seen as classics like Sopranos and Breaking Bad.

The world isn't black and white, and while some don't like to be reminded of that, many more accept they live in the grey area and struggle every day and so like to see themselves up on screen.

I certainly have no problem with people enjoying it, but it most certainly is not for me.

My issue is more that it is leaking into everything and you don't really get much if any straightforward good versus evil stories anymore. Everything seems to need to have nuance and respecting the villain or bringing down the hero or making endings that have indifference instead of good "triumphing". I feel like that should have a place as well but such black and white tales have been greatly reduced in mainstream entertainment.

 

[Disney Irish]

I certainly have no problem with people enjoying it, but it most certainly is not for me.

My issue is more that it is leaking into everything and you don't really get much if any straightforward good versus evil stories anymore. Everything seems to need to have nuance and respecting the villain or bringing down the hero or making endings that have indifference instead of good "triumphing". I feel like that should have a place as well but such black and white tales have been greatly reduced in mainstream entertainment.

As with everything in Hollywood there are ebbs and flows. For a long time it was only good vs evil stories, I mean practically for 75+ years that is all there was until the late 90s when it started to move to more nuanced stories that you see now. So its having its time in the sun for now and will swing back the other direction in time as new storytellers start to tell their stories.