Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Speaking of actual polling experts (vs our personal opinions), the latest Axios/Harris brand reputation poll showing Disney plummeting down to #77, down from the top 5 as recently as 2019 when Disney touted this well-respected poll in their shareholder communications.

Apparently, those five guys in the basement are busy answering a lot of pollsters calls.

https://www.axios.com/2023/05/23/corporate-brands-reputation-america

“Between the lines: Disney lost momentum across each of nine attributes measured in the Axios Harris 100 poll — with the biggest declines among citizenship and growth.

• Disney lost 6.2 points in perceptions of future growth, 4.3 points on citizenship ("shares my values" and "supports good causes") and 2.9 points on ethics.

By the numbers: The company was ranked the fifth most polarizing brand of 100 in this year's survey

What they're saying: "The lesson here is that when you divide you subtract," said Harris Poll CEO John Gerzema. "When you divide audiences, you're ultimately going to be subtracting customers for your business."

https://www.axios.com/2023/05/23/disneys-reputation-political-drama-polarization

The take away from their numbers is their fall is more attributed to “they just don’t have anything cool coming out I’m interested in” over “my family values”


…which kinda is the point.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Sorry, I was forward looking. My thoughts from one paragraph spilled into the next.

It's tracking to be Illuminations' worst ever opening weekend, by a wide margin. We can wait to see what shade of bad it is, but that wasn't really my point. Theatrical original animation is struggling and it is studio agnostic.

I think they’re opening near Christmas?

Which works for more adult movies but is kinda stupid for kids

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No one knowledgeable thought Batman had been broken by Schumacher. That's utter fannish hyperbole.

Big shocker you dispute the eye test…

Hell…even the people in the movies said they were nonsensical in the 25+ years since

I did dig st Elmo’s fire though

 

[erasure fan1]

No one knowledgeable thought Batman had been broken by Schumacher. That's utter fannish hyperbole.

You're kidding right? Batman forever and Robin were a laughing stock. You say I underplay the culture war stuff, well, you become disagreeable for the sake of being disagreeable. I'm talking about the films, just like star wars. Of course Schumacher didn't kill the character as a whole. But you already knew I wasn't talking about that. If no, you need to learn and trace a thread back to get the full context. But to think that theatrical Batman wasn't damaged by him is laughable. Batman begins did $375mil, not much better than forever. The next two? Over a billion each. Begins should have done much better because it was so good. But people were sceptical from the two trash fires before.

Now maybe I offended you, and you absolutely love the Schumacher films. In all honesty I could see that based on how you defend mediocre films. If that's the case I apologize, everyone is free to love what they love.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Now maybe I offended you, and you absolutely love the Schumacher films. In all honesty I could see that based on how you defend mediocre films. If that's the case I apologize, everyone is free to love what they love.

How could you not love neon lighting, slapstick…and “fins”….on like…everything…

…right

Or this…particularly 1:30 on

 

[Casper Gutman]

You're kidding right? Batman forever and Robin were a laughing stock. You say I underplay the culture war stuff, well, you become disagreeable for the sake of being disagreeable. I'm talking about the films, just like star wars. Of course Schumacher didn't kill the character as a whole. But you already knew I wasn't talking about that. If no, you need to learn and trace a thread back to get the full context. But to think that theatrical Batman wasn't damaged by him is laughable. Batman begins did $375mil, not much better than forever. The next two? Over a billion each. Begins should have done much better because it was so good. But people were sceptical from the two trash fires before.

Now maybe I offended you, and you absolutely love the Schumacher films. In all honesty I could see that based on how you defend mediocre films. If that's the case I apologize, everyone is free to love what they love.

There’s tons of fannish hyperbole in this thread, (“It’s dead forever!!”) and your post was an example of it. Batman and Robin was a major box office disappointment and something of a laughingstock and it ended that particular series of films. The idea that it forever tainted Batman as a filmic IP was Comic-Book-Guy hysterics (“Worst Movie Ever”) of the sort that keeps intruding on this discussion. If I’m forgiving of some second-tier films, a number of posters here balance that by screaming about how they “killed their childhood.” It’s tiresome.

 

[el_super]

Being perceived as a highly political, divisive brand is the antithesis of the entire Disney global brand strategy for the past 100 years.

We live in polarizing times. Which is to say, there might not be an easy path toward Disney making a movie that "everyone" can enjoy. If appeasing the 40% means alienating the 51%... which do you pick? And that's just today, what about the future? If age and demographics show that the 40% is going to be whittled even further by time does that change the math?

Of course the other interesting part, is that all this "politicization" hasn't really impacted the parks or streaming business at all.

So if the choice is trying to appease the 40%, at the risk of alienating the 51%, and potentially impacting all of your other businesses... what do you do?

 

[TalkingHead]

Black Widow did day and date, think it was $30ish to stream at home? Maybe live action Mulan did that too? That could work if they committed to not putting them on D+ for 9-10 months.

Biggest problem is other studios have become suppliers of passable animated family fare, and the Disney brand doesn’t carry as much weight today. There’s decent competition in the animated family fare arena.

I still think the answer is to 1) make movies that aren’t only aimed at young kids, i.e. the old Pixar model, 2) commit to productions that are overwhelming visual spectacles, i.e. the Spider-verse model, and 3) market it to adults and families as it has to be seen in a theater for full impact, i.e. Nolan model.

Wish notably fails on each of those points. Just to add, the revisionism with Elemental needs a corrective. It’s mediocre storytelling full stop, and most people outside the Disney bubble can see that.

 

[TalkingHead]

Just to add another animated data point to the mix, there’s a new Miyazaki title opening this weekend. At least around here, the early screenings this week have been well attended. Curious to see what kind of business it does this weekend.

 

[el_super]

Wish notably fails on each of those points. Just to add, the revisionism with Elemental needs a corrective. It’s mediocre storytelling full stop, and most people outside the Disney bubble can see that.

That's not really fair to say though. Most Disney movies employ mediocre storytelling. These aren't Oscar worthy scripts going into these pictures. They're meant to achieve a certain effect and generally are pretty formulaic. They have been since the 1940s.

 

[Willmark]

There’s tons of fannish hyperbole in this thread, (“It’s dead forever!!”) and your post was an example of it. Batman and Robin was a major box office disappointment and something of a laughingstock and it ended that particular series of films. The idea that it forever tainted Batman as a filmic IP was Comic-Book-Guy hysterics (“Worst Movie Ever”) of the sort that keeps intruding on this discussion. If I’m forgiving of some second-tier films, a number of posters here balance that by screaming about how they “killed their childhood.” It’s tiresome.

Do you have examples of “screaming about how they killed their childhood?”

 

[el_super]

It’s a false choice - Universal, WB, Sony, Paramount, etc. have navigated the exact same times without becoming a polarizing, politicized brand.

Everyone is suffering at the box office. Did politics cause Fast X to stumble? Or Mission Impossible?

 

[celluloid]

“messaging” in Disney’s films, the totally real thing no one can ever really explain.

"Tell the truth, but tell it slant."

 

[celluloid]

Everyone is suffering at the box office. Did politics cause Fast X to stumble? Or Mission Impossible?

There is still ebb and flow in movies and industry. You have some exhaustion of franchise in those two examples...over two decades old movie series.

 

[erasure fan1]

There’s tons of fannish hyperbole in this thread, (“It’s dead forever!!”) and your post was an example of it.

No, it wasn't. I was giving examples of why it isn't "dead forever!" I was defending your same sentiment. But you need to trace threads back, something sorely missing on this site.

The idea that it forever tainted Batman as a filmic IP was Comic-Book-Guy hysterics (“Worst Movie Ever”) of the sort that keeps intruding on this discussion. If

Again, it did exactly what I said it did. It was bad enough to significantly reduce the box office for a absolutely fantastic Batman film. And if that Rey movie came out in 2024, I would bet the same thing happens. And that was the point.

If I’m forgiving of some second-tier films, a number of posters here balance that by screaming about how they “killed their childhood.” It’s tiresome.

That's all fine but you realize you aren't helping the situation, right? You obviously looked at the post, made the conclusion I was all doom and gloom. When in fact I was basically agreeing with your point above. But you obviously didn't read back to see the actual context.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Your take away from the Harris Poll CEO’s summation of: “The lesson here is that when you divide you subtract," said Harris Poll CEO John Gerzema. "When you divide audiences, you're ultimately going to be subtracting customers for your business."

Was: “Wish needed a better third act”.

You can debate to what extent the shocking decline in brand reputation and increased polarization is having on specific films, but to dismiss the fact it is happening is just intellectual dishonesty.

The polling data, box office results, common sense, and zeitgeist continue to tell the unfortunate story.

Oh I never dispute it’s happening…and intensifying

I just won’t give air to “they’ve p!zzed off 40%!”

Nah…85% of the US population if located in about 20% of the land mass…and that chunk isn’t inherently anti-Disney

That’s where polls tend to miss…they give too much gravitas to the cows

 

[celluloid]

Sorry, I was forward looking. My thoughts from one paragraph spilled into the next.

It's tracking to be Illuminations' worst ever opening weekend, by a wide margin. We can wait to see what shade of bad it is, but that wasn't really my point. Theatrical original animation is struggling and it is studio agnostic.

For sure it is not an animation year as a whole but two films Although Mario and Spiderman shows people are still fine with animation. As a whole it is a horror and social commentary(a lot of bleed over there) year. There are eras and trends in movies.

30's horror, 40s Gangsters, 50's Musicals. Bearded wonders brought sci fi and supernatural in the 70s

There is a reason Barbie, Godzilla, Oppenheimer, and the mid budget horror films were very successful. People love messaging when they can swallow it with entertainment. Inspired even at times.

Disney as of late has not put much effort into telling the truth slant right now. All people like entertaining movies. All people enjoy messages in those movies because entertainment when done well has some allegory or digestible concepts of humanities. Disney often has featured that is often too on the nose than craft for what audiences right now want.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

And I’ve been consistent in supporting those types of new story details…but…they are mishandling the rollout. It takes more tact than they have displayed…but Bob Inc is screwing up across the entire board…so I’m not going out on a limb

It’s the “how?”…not the “what? And the why?”

We have to work with what the world gives us…sometimes that might be lying/outsmarting bigots to make them irrelevant.

But you gave yourself away when you said the movies don’t look the same as people on the street. That shows us you’re only looking at this from one perspective, of which I’m sure a lot of people are guilty, and I know it’s not intentional on your part.

It’s time to represent different streets, and adults should be able to handle that. People should be able to handle that they aren’t at the center of the universe.

I’m grossed out and embarrassed by the behavior of the people bemoaning black mermaids, gay cartoons, and female superheroes regardless of quality of story.

 

[celluloid]

And we are back to blaming the audience or outing some social prejudice!

It can't be that the Disney brand perception and experience now is that people are not trusting it with quality entertainment.

 

[DKampy]

For sure it is not an animation year as a whole but two films Although Mario and Spiderman shows people are still fine with animation.

My thoughts are perhaps families with kids are staying home… I saw neither Mario or Spiderverse in theaters… but from what I have gather from online…. Both of those movies appealed to adults… even those that don’t have kids… which might have helped both… as families with kids are opting to stay home more and just use a streaming service they already pay for to entertain the kids