Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[CaptainAmerica]

Absolutely fantastic.

Silver Surfer In Marvel's 'Fantastic Four' MCU Reboot Reportedly A Woman

It looks like the new Silver Surfer in the Marvel's upcoming Fantastic Four MCU reboot is reportedly a woman in the new iteration.

www.screengeek.net

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Absolutely fantastic.

Silver Surfer In Marvel's 'Fantastic Four' MCU Reboot Reportedly A Woman

It looks like the new Silver Surfer in the Marvel's upcoming Fantastic Four MCU reboot is reportedly a woman in the new iteration.

www.screengeek.net

I guess that would bother easily bothered people for some reason.

 

[flynnibus]

I guess that would bother easily bothered people for some reason.

Because people want the silver surfer people have known for decades when someone tells them they are making a silver surfer character

 

[Casper Gutman]

Absolutely fantastic.

Silver Surfer In Marvel's 'Fantastic Four' MCU Reboot Reportedly A Woman

It looks like the new Silver Surfer in the Marvel's upcoming Fantastic Four MCU reboot is reportedly a woman in the new iteration.

www.screengeek.net

Look at the source...

And even if this were to turn out to be true (which is no more likely because some random clickbait guy claimed it is), the number of people who will pretend to be outraged will be exponentially higher then the number of people who have EVER cared about the Silver Surfer, and I say that as someone who has read thousands of Marvel comics.

 

[Disney Irish]

Actually, that was quite interesting. I had no idea really. I appreciate the background info from you and @Disney Irish both.

Off the top of my head, that phase strategy and the inane details that only superfans can obsess over (I have been posting inane things here about Disneyland for 20 years, so I do have some experience) would seem to work for comic books that sell for a dime or 15 cents. Or whatever comic books go for nowadays.

But for mega-budget tentpole movies that need to pull in the largest audience possible to break even? That seems risky to get into phases and sagas and required homework and such. The box office for The Marvels is only the latest warning sign on that, in addition to miserable Nielsen ratings on Disney+ for Ms. Marvel, Loki, etc.

Except this isn't new, its been going on since 2008 when the MCU started and exactly how it got to be the biggest franchise in movie history, with not 1 but 4 of the top 10 movies of all time, making over $30B. That wasn't just superfans doing that, that was the general audience.

Things as of late have faltered, the many reasons why have been discussed ad nauseam in this forum across many threads including this one. The main reasons in my opinion is that there hasn't been enough to connect the recent films and tv shows together, the stories appear to be aimless with nothing connecting them together yet. And too much content being released that it became overwhelming for the general audience. Both of which Marvel appears to acknowledge and working to resolve.

 

[erasure fan1]

Look at the source...

And even if this were to turn out to be true (which is no more likely because some random clickbait guy claimed it is), the number of people who will pretend to be outraged will be exponentially higher then the number of people who have EVER cared about the Silver Surfer, and I say that as someone who has read thousands of Marvel comics.

These rumors seem to point back to not swapping silver surfer, but instead using Frankie Raye. As far as I can tell it was because it was said that one of the Galactus heralds is female. So most probably just assume, Galactus harald = silver surfer. But Raye is connected to Johnny Storm so I think the rumor tracks, but not as it's headlined. Would the mcu gender swap silver surfer? I wouldn't put it past them. But what would be the point when all it would do is create very negative headlines for the film. Especially since there's already a story with a female character, tied to the fantastic four, that would make a lot more sense.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Look at the source...

And even if this were to turn out to be true (which is no more likely because some random clickbait guy claimed it is), the number of people who will pretend to be outraged will be exponentially higher then the number of people who have EVER cared about the Silver Surfer, and I say that as someone who has read thousands of Marvel comics.

 

[mf1972]

View attachment 754976

that was a funny episode btw

 

[Phroobar]

These rumors seem to point back to not swapping silver surfer, but instead using Frankie Raye. As far as I can tell it was because it was said that one of the Galactus heralds is female. So most probably just assume, Galactus harald = silver surfer. But Raye is connected to Johnny Storm so I think the rumor tracks, but not as it's headlined. Would the mcu gender swap silver surfer? I wouldn't put it past them. But what would be the point when all it would do is create very negative headlines for the film. Especially since there's already a story with a female character, tied to the fantastic four, that would make a lot more sense.

I assume a female Silver Surfer will look nothing like the comic book version.

 

[Casper Gutman]

These rumors seem to point back to not swapping silver surfer, but instead using Frankie Raye. As far as I can tell it was because it was said that one of the Galactus heralds is female. So most probably just assume, Galactus harald = silver surfer. But Raye is connected to Johnny Storm so I think the rumor tracks, but not as it's headlined. Would the mcu gender swap silver surfer? I wouldn't put it past them. But what would be the point when all it would do is create very negative headlines for the film. Especially since there's already a story with a female character, tied to the fantastic four, that would make a lot more sense.

Yes, this occurred to me - its also possible the Surfer in the MCU will be a mashup of Frankie and the Surfer, much the way the MCU's Spidey is a mashup of Parker and Morales.

Again, however, there's no reason to believe any of this until its reported by a more credible source. It's also worth noting that gender-swapping the Surfer doesn't fundamentally change anything about the character, who has always been a ponderous, uninteresting presence in comics whose prominence is mostly due to Stan Lee's obsession with having a messianic character to teach cliched moral lessons. If they alter any of the Four or Doom - yeah, I'd get the concern.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I assume a female Silver Surfer will look nothing like the comic book version.

I strongly suspect they will look like a silver person on a surfboard. So, very much like the comics.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Here's one of the things that is most irritating about the gender/ ethnicity swap panic. I can completely understand the reaction IF its altering something fundamental about a character you care about. I would have been unhappy if The Thing were anything other then a Jewish male, because that's important to who he is as a character and it's important to his creators. Marvel has been VERY selective about which characters they flip. I think they messed up Taskmaster, but that has nothing to do with the gender swap, it has to do with making a chatty amoral merc into a characterless zombie - a fundamental change to the character.

A lot of people, however, are just upset with the gender/ ethnicity swapping ITSELF, regardless of what it means for the characters. Many have to be told its happening (look at the gender-swap of the original Captain Marvel, which almost no one remembers). That, I think, is a much more questionable position to hold, ESPECIALLY when coupled with an unwillingness to accept newer characters like Ms Marvel or the new Hawkeye. It essentially traps the franchise in the 60s, with all that implies for inclusivity.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

It essentially traps the franchise in the 60s

The 60s versions of the franchise are the ones I personally want to see, and they are the reason they became classics. They weren't making tentpole big-budget superhero movies in the 60s, so I'd like to see a Fantastic Four movie created NOW that is as faithful to the original comics as possible.

 

[Casper Gutman]

The 60s versions of the franchise are the ones I personally want to see, and they are the reason they became classics. They weren't making tentpole big-budget superhero movies in the 60s, so I'd like to see a Fantastic Four movie created NOW that is as faithful to the original comics as possible.

You want to see Reed be an unlikeable condescending misogynist to Sue, "The Invisible Girl?" Nah. The nature of comics, what makes them a special storytelling medium, is that they constantly adapt and change, absorbing elements that work and discarding ones that don't. That's why characters like Deadpool who were boring and unoriginal when first introduced can become iconic and beloved when other creators alter them, or a group of forgotten pre-existing characters can be tossed on a team to create the Guardians of the Galaxy. Through this evolutionary process, certain elements become fundamental to characters, and the MCU has been better then any other comic-based franchise at identifying these core elements and staying true to them. These core elements MAY be linked to ethnicity or gender, but they often aren't.

And besides, you've got a film with a "traditional" Silver Surfer. It was really bad and messed up the much more important characters, but it nailed the comic Surfer.

 

[TalkingHead]

Read that Disney/20th Century isn’t releasing The Bikeriders, which was originally supposed to open in Dec. Great cast including Austin Butler, 60s period piece, positive reviews when it played fall festivals.

Could Disney really not figure out a way to release this mid-budget drama? Further evidence Hollywood’s running on fumes.

 

[erasure fan1]

A lot of people, however, are just upset with the gender/ ethnicity swapping ITSELF, regardless of what it means for the characters. Many have to be told its happening

For me it comes down to this. Was it necessary. In a case like silver surfer as an example if it did happen. What would be the reason to swap? If you are trying to add a female character in, you have one that is already associated with the franchise. There's no real need to do a swap in my opinion because there is a character already established that you can hopefully grow and integrate into the larger universe. That way you can avoid the noise of the people who just want to be angry with you.

And besides, you've got a film with a "traditional" Silver Surfer. It was really bad and messed up the much more important characters, but it nailed the comic Surfer.

He was by far the best part of either of those F4 films.

 

[Casper Gutman]

For me it comes down to this. Was it necessary. In a case like silver surfer as an example if it did happen. What would be the reason to swap? If you are trying to add a female character in, you have one that is already associated with the franchise. There's no real need to do a swap in my opinion because there is a character already established that you can hopefully grow and integrate into the larger universe. That way you can avoid the noise of the people who just want to be angry with you.

He was by far the best part of either of those F4 films.

Disney shouldn't be making decisions based on a desire not to anger people who want to be angry and will be angry regardless of what Disney does.

I don't see the harm of adding a female character to a film that will already have four male leads (five if we count Doom) and only one female lead.

In the specific case of the Surfer, he's already a largely sexless (literally and figuratively) and emotionally distant character, so the change doesn't alter anything fundamental to the character.

 

[flynnibus]

Disney shouldn't be making decisions based on a desire not to anger people who want to be angry and will be angry regardless of what Disney does.

And what about making decisions that regular fans don't like either? Or do you just want to lump everyone into the 'hater' bucket if they dare not like a choice?

 

[Casper Gutman]

And what about making decisions that regular fans don't like either? Or do you just want to lump everyone into the 'hater' bucket if they dare not like a choice?

I don’t think any one of us gets to decide what a “regular fan” is.

I articulated my personal “hater/non-hater” distinction above. If you feel a swap hurts a character you care about, that’s a very reasonable criticism. If you just hate the idea of swaps in general or if you’re looking for any opportunity to attack Disney, yeah, that’s a more questionable position.

 

[erasure fan1]

Disney shouldn't be making decisions based on a desire not to anger people who want to be angry and will be angry regardless of what Disney does.

I don't see the harm of adding a female character to a film that will already have four male leads (five if we count Doom) and only one female lead.

To the first point, I agree. But you know as well as I do that it will get major backlash. And that leads to the second point. Why bother when there's a story, right there already, with a female character that would work Great and accomplish what you are saying? Disney shouldn't bend the knee, but in a case like this, I'd say it's just poking the bear for the sake of poking the bear. And personally I'd rather see the Frankie story any way as it would be an arc we haven't seen. It seemed like that was what they were going to do in the original since she was in it. Of course it could have just been an Easter egg for the comic nerds.