Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[LittleBuford]

I'm happy to count it in the Profit column for our big New Year's Tournament of Champions 2023 Box Office Summary that I'll post here on December 31st.

Elemental made $486 Million at the global box office. If they somehow only spent $40 Million on marketing, then perhaps $450 Million was the break even point. If Pixar got half of the global box office above $450 Million, that would mean Elemental made a profit of $23 Million at the box office.

Does that sound fair to you? We'll credit Elemental with a $23 Million profit instead of a loss?

I’m not interested in tracking the numbers, so do with the information as you wish. The only reason I posted was to correct an error you kept repeating.

 

[LittleBuford]

But Disney's version of the "real world" in their movies lately doesn't come off as natural and real, so much as it comes off as forced and cringey.

Can you provide examples from some of Disney’s recent releases?

 

[Disstevefan1]

I'm happy to count it in the Profit column for our big New Year's Tournament of Champions 2023 Box Office Summary that I'll post here on December 31st.

Elemental made $486 Million at the global box office. If they somehow only spent $40 Million on marketing, then perhaps $450 Million was the break even point. If Pixar got half of the global box office above $450 Million, that would mean Elemental made a profit of $23 Million at the box office.

Does that sound fair to you? We'll credit Elemental with a $23 Million profit instead of a loss?

Elemental is a great movie. Of the majority of the movies they released lately, in my opinion, Elemental would be the one that had a chance of breaking even.

Sadly, I suspect they spent more than 40 million on marketing.

 

[TP2000]

I’m not interested in tracking the numbers, so do with the information as you wish. The only reason I posted was to correct an error you kept repeating.

Oh. But this is the Box Office thread where we discuss the numbers and its implications.

For you, I will pretend that they only spent $40 Million on marketing for Elemental (perhaps the private jet they flew to Cannes and back in and blasted 8,000 gallons of kerosene jet fuel into the stratosphere were all comped by another Disney division?) and thus Elemental made $23 Million in profit off its $486 Million global box office take.

 

[Tha Realest]

Can you provide examples from some of Disney’s recent releases?

You can look for it online, but last year there was a training which said the company’s goal was to have half of its characters in projects from minorities or underrepresented groups. This is not a comment on the pros or cons of such a policy, but rather a confirmation it exists.

 

[Disney Irish]

I'm happy to count it in the Profit column for our big New Year's Tournament of Champions 2023 Box Office Summary that I'll post here on December 31st.

Elemental made $486 Million at the global box office. If they somehow only spent $40 Million on marketing, then perhaps $450 Million was the break even point. If Pixar got half of the global box office above $450 Million, that would mean Elemental made a profit of $23 Million at the box office.

Does that sound fair to you? We'll credit Elemental with a $23 Million profit instead of a loss?

The point is its not up to us here on this fan site to call balls and strikes on what is profitable and what is not. We are not privy to all the inside information on what the real budgets and marketing on these films are, only what is "reported" in the media which is often not complete. As such the ultimate umpire is TWDC, only they can say internally whether something was profitable or not, only they can make decisions on what to do next.

We can all discuss things to our hearts content, but in the end its not going to make one bit of difference. TWDC will continue to do whatever they are going to do, and we have no ultimate say over it no matter if we call something profitable or a bomb.

 

[LittleBuford]

Oh. But this is the Box Office thread where we discuss the numbers and its implications.

Indeed. And my interest in the topic is different in nature from yours.

 

[LittleBuford]

You can look for it online, but last year there was a training which said the company’s goal was to have half of its characters in projects from minorities or underrepresented groups. This is not a comment on the pros or cons of such a policy, but rather a confirmation it exists.

Can you provide specific examples of this approach that you consider “forced and cringey”?

 

[TP2000]

Can you provide examples from some of Disney’s recent releases?

The Marvels for one.

They seemed to go all in on the Ms. Marvel character, who had the lowest rated Marvel series on Disney+. Then I Googled a week or so ago and learned that there is only 600,000 people of Pakistani descent living in the USA. That's 0.2% (I rounded up!) of the US population. No wonder an audience of hundreds of millions of moviegoers failed to connect with her or care about her backstory that they pushed to the forefront.

It checks a box for HR, but that just means it feels cringey and fake to people. Marvel seemed to want to play up her Pakistani background more than build a character that can connect with people more organically and naturally. If they were trying to capture the adorkable teenage girl demographic with Ms. Marvel, they failed. That market didn't show up at the movies this weekend. So make the characters engaging and integral to the story first, and then have their immutable characteristics like race or gender just a background angle that feels natural.

That opinion above is all based on what I've seen of the very low Nielsen ratings for Ms. Marvel, and now box office results for The Marvels. Whatever audience demographic they were trying to lure into theaters by featuring Ms. Marvel in this $275 Million tentpole movie, that strategy did not work. And my hunch is that it's because Ms. Marvel comes off to audiences as more cringey than adorkable.

 

[LittleBuford]

The Marvels for one.

They seemed to go all in on the Ms. Marvel character, who had the lowest rated Marvel series on Disney+. Then I Googled a week or so ago and learned that there is only 600,000 people of Pakistani descent living in the USA. That's 0.2% (I rounded up!) of the US population. No wonder an audience of hundreds of millions of moviegoers failed to connect with her or care about her backstory.

It checks a box for HR, but that just means it feels cringey and fake to people. Marvel seemed to want to play up her Pakistani background more than build a character that can connect with people more organically and naturally. If they were trying to capture the adorkable teenage girl demographic with Ms. Marvel, they failed. That market didn't show up at the movies this weekend. So make the characters engaging and integral to the story first, and then have their immutable characteristics like race or gender just a background angle that feels natural.

That opinion above is all based on what I've seen of the very low Nielsen ratings for Ms. Marvel, and now box office results for The Marvels. Whatever audience demographic they were trying to lure into theaters by featuring Ms. Marvel in this $275 Million tentpole movie, that strategy did not work. And my hunch is that it's because Ms. Marvel comes off to audiences as more cringey than adorkable.

I take it you haven't actually watched the film or the show.

There's something deeply problematic about your claim that general audiences aren't able to connect with a character of Pakistani descent, and even more problematic about your failure to recognise how troubling such sentiments are. Thank goodness Disney isn't being held back by such a mindset.

 

[TP2000]

I take it you haven't actually watched the film or the show.

Did you not read my last paragraph?

That opinion above is all based on what I've seen of the very low Nielsen ratings for Ms. Marvel, and now box office results for The Marvels. Whatever audience demographic they were trying to lure into theaters by featuring Ms. Marvel in this $275 Million tentpole movie, that strategy did not work. And my hunch is that it's because Ms. Marvel comes off to audiences as more cringey than adorkable.

My opinion is based solely on data like Nielsen ratings and box office results.

There's something deeply problematic about your claim that general audiences aren't able to connect with a character of Pakistani descent, and even more problematic about your failure to recognise how troubling such sentiments are. Thank goodness Disney isn't being held back by such a mindset.

I don't know anyone who would be upset that a girl in a movie is Pakistani. And if I did meet such a person, I wouldn't want to hang around them very long.

But I do know a lot of people, myself included, who can spot forced box checking initiatives from 20 feet away. It's feels fake and cringey. Make the Ms. Marvel character fabulous in her own right, and have her ethnicity be a bullet point much further down on the list of character angles. Quite frankly, as a gay man I find female characters far more engaging than males, and even I had no interest in The Marvels. Meanwhile, my Blu-Ray collection is full of female movies like All About Eve, Auntie Mame, The Women, Valley of the Dolls, The Help, etc. But The Marvels? I had no interest, it looks cringey and dumb.

That was Marvel's mistake. They just made a movie that very few people want to see. And they spent $275 Million to make it.

 

[LittleBuford]

But I do know a lot of people, myself included, who can spot forced box checking initiatives from 20 feet away. It's feels fake and cringey.

Sure you can.

If Disney is losing people who think this way, then I’d say it’s a win.

 

[TP2000]

Sure you can.

If Disney is losing people who think this way, then I’d say it’s a win.

That's not really a solid business plan for Disney though, is it?



Expecting people to put up with stuff that reads as cringey and fake 'just because' is likely part of the reason why Disney's box office tanked 10 times in a row in 2023. This isn't sustainable for them. They must return to their flagship studios making movies that people naturally want to see in theaters. Especially if they want to keep spending $200 to $300 Million to make these movies.

The box office has spoken on The Marvels, and there's nothing so efficient as the free market to deliver a message like that. The question now is... are the executives in Burbank listening?

 

[Chi84]

Sure you can.

If Disney is losing people who think this way, then I’d say it’s a win.

You can’t please everyone. Some people want to go back to the past, others have extreme ways of thinking, still others (the vast majority, I suspect) don’t care and simply want entertaining movies.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Are they pushing an agenda or just reflecting the real world? It seems to me they’re doing the latter.

They aren't reflecting the ticket purchasing movie-going public.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Sure you can.

If Disney is losing people who think this way, then I’d say it’s a win.

 

[Tha Realest]

Can you provide specific examples of this approach that you consider “forced and cringey”?

I never used such words or phrases, so don’t attribute them to me.

 

[Chi84]

They aren't reflecting the ticket purchasing movie-going public.

Do you mean they aren’t making films that are getting people into theaters? We know this lol. That’s why the thread exists.

 

[DKampy]

Did you not read my last paragraph?



My opinion is based solely on data like Nielsen ratings and box office results.



I don't know anyone who would be upset that a girl in a movie is Pakistani. And if I did meet such a person, I wouldn't want to hang around them very long.

But I do know a lot of people, myself included, who can spot forced box checking initiatives from 20 feet away. It's feels fake and cringey. Make the Ms. Marvel character fabulous in her own right, and have her ethnicity be a bullet point much further down on the list of character angles. Quite frankly, as a gay man I find female characters far more engaging than males, and even I had no interest in The Marvels. Meanwhile, my Blu-Ray collection is full of female movies like All About Eve, Auntie Mame, The Women, Valley of the Dolls, The Help, etc. But The Marvels? I had no interest, it looks cringey and dumb.

That was Marvel's mistake. They just made a movie that very few people want to see. And they spent $275 Million to make it.

how can you spot that… by your own admission you would never watch any Disney content… any opinions you have about what is in such content can automatically be dismissed

 

[LittleBuford]

I never used such words or phrases, so don’t attribute them to me.

I wasn't attributing them to you. They were used by another poster in the exchange that you yourself joined, seemingly in support of what he was saying.

Can you answer the question?