Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[erasure fan1]

Read the boards. Actually read what they say, not what you want them to say because you don’t want to believe the truth about a lot of posters that agree with you. We’re told Disneys entire output is terrible.

I actually think it needs to be you who starts paying attention to what's being said. You are so entrenched in the anti-culture war that you are giving way too much influence to a small group. You are responding to a post where I said:

I'm not saying everything was terrible, but there was a lot of, meh, take it or leave it.

So I guess a lot of people agree that Disneys output has been meh. But I wasn't running around saying everything is terrible like you want to make it seem.

You and a consistent group are constantly calling everyone anti diversity. Yet when shown counter points, they're conveniently ignored. I'm still waiting on that answer as to why rogue one, the most diverse of the star wars films, is considered the best of Disney star wars, when all the fans are so anti diversity? I'm guessing it's because it doesn't further your narrative.

What, for instance, is the problem with Ms Marvel, a critically acclaimed series? The star wasn’t hot enough, obviously. The white males who rightfully own the franchise didn’t list for her. It didn’t star more universally acceptable actors like Evans or Downey (acceptable because wink wink). It didn’t give the audience “what they want” (wink wink).

I tried watching, and it didn't appeal to me. It just felt too teen dramady to me. I also was never a fan of her in the comics. I keep hearing it's so critically acclaimed yet it sure doesn't seem like too many others watched it either. So I'll throw a question back at you. If the show wasn't made for white males as you say, why didn't the rest of the people watch it? I fully admit the show wasn't made for me. So why am I the bad guy for not watching? When you make a show that skews to a different demographic, don't be surprised if it doesn't click with the others.

no we all play dumb. And the only criticism of those “terrible” Disney films is that they didn’t give the audience “what they want” (wink wink).

That's completely disingenuous. Again, there are some doing exactly that, I'm not blind. But when people do give valid reasons for not liking something or as to why they think it didn't perform, it becomes, LIAR!!!! You just hate diversity! Disney has had a rough year or two. That's not because the world hates all diversity. I'm not going to sit here and blow smoke and say that everything is perfect in the world. But to think that all of Disneys problems are because the world hates diversity, just seems crazy to me.

 

[Ghost93]

While I do believe misogyny and racism are a factor in why some are rooting for The Marvels to fail, I think the biggest reason it will flop — beyond quality or superhero fatigue — is that it doesn't seem like an "event." The marketing makes it look like Freaky Friday in space. That could be very fun! But that isn't very appealing to the types of superhero fans who want the Marvel movies to be more intense and have more gravitas. The marketing has been selling "fluffy, lightweight fun." And I'm just not sure that's what audiences want. Especially since the comedy in Thor: Love and Thunder and Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania was widely panned. Wakanda Forever and Guardians of the Galaxy 3 — both of which dealt with loss and had plenty of dark moments — were more positively received.

I feel MCU's trademark humor — which was a draw to audiences in its early days — is now a deterrent. I think people want less funny quips and more sincerity. The Marvels might have that, but that's not the impression I get from the marketing.

People often call the James Cameron Avatar movies corny, but I think the reason they are successful is because they do take themselves seriously, even when dealing with something as ludicrous as a talking whale.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I actually think it needs to be you who starts paying attention to what's being said. You are so entrenched in the anti-culture war that you are giving way too much influence to a small group. You are responding to a post where I said:

So I guess a lot of people agree that Disneys output has been meh. But I wasn't running around saying everything is terrible like you want to make it seem.

You and a consistent group are constantly calling everyone anti diversity. Yet when shown counter points, they're conveniently ignored. I'm still waiting on that answer as to why rogue one, the most diverse of the star wars films, is considered the best of Disney star wars, when all the fans are so anti diversity? I'm guessing it's because it doesn't further your narrative.

I tried watching, and it didn't appeal to me. It just felt too teen dramady to me. I also was never a fan of her in the comics. I keep hearing it's so critically acclaimed yet it sure doesn't seem like too many others watched it either. So I'll throw a question back at you. If the show wasn't made for white males as you say, why didn't the rest of the people watch it? I fully admit the show wasn't made for me. So why am I the bad guy for not watching? When you make a show that skews to a different demographic, don't be surprised if it doesn't click with the others.

That's completely disingenuous. Again, there are some doing exactly that, I'm not blind. But when people do give valid reasons for not liking something or as to why they think it didn't perform, it becomes, LIAR!!!! You just hate diversity! Disney has had a rough year or two. That's not because the world hates all diversity. I'm not going to sit here and blow smoke and say that everything is perfect in the world. But to think that all of Disneys problems are because the world hates diversity, just seems crazy to me.

Again, where are the detailed criticisms? More to the point, where are the posters on these boards replying to thoughtful criticism of the content of Disney’s output by calling the critic a liar? Do you have an example? Even on these boards, which tend to be more eloquent and informed then most social media, what we get over and over are not detailed critiques but cutesy-poo allusions to vaguely defined wokeness.

You have still failed to direct any sort of coherent criticism at Ms Marvel. If you don’t want to watch it, fine, but the salient point is that it has been derided on these boards as part of Disneys awful output, something that will obviously contribute to the doom of The Marvels. Your language is nonetheless deeply illustrative. “The show wasn’t made for white males.” I said nothing of the sort - I was quite clearly paraphrasing the odious comments of other posters. It certainly seems that you’re making the assumption that films and TV shows without white male leads exclude white male audience members, but I doubt very much that you’d agree with the reverse - that films with white male leads somehow exclude every other group (the “rest of the people,” as you term them) from the audience.

Your constant claims of a “small group” of bad apples is utterly absurd in light of the fact that the culture war has been one of, if not THE, dominant elements in American society for several years and that one of the country’s two political parties has made attacks on Disney a very significant part of it’s appeal to voters. The culture war plays a huge role in current discourse about Disney.

It’s also the height of absurdity to try and counter the flood of racist and misogynist invective that has been directed at SW by pointing to minority characters that have received fewer attacks - it’s the pop culture equivalent of saying “I can’t be racist, I have a black friend.” We can go through the complex interplay of elements that forged the reaction to each Star Wars character and project, but that won’t alter the fact that culture war hate is a strong and consistent, occasionally even dominant, factor shaping the reaction of a significant part of the audience. I bet you can come up with some reasons Cara Dune wasn’t widely attacked, for instance.

 

[Casper Gutman]

While I do believe misogyny and racism are a factor in why some are rooting for The Marvels to fail, I think the biggest reason it will flop — beyond quality or superhero fatigue — is that it doesn't seem like an "event." The marketing makes it look like Freaky Friday in space. That could be very fun! But that isn't very appealing to the types of superhero fans who want the Marvel movies to be more intense and have more gravitas. The marketing has been selling "fluffy, lightweight fun." And I'm just not sure that's what audiences want. Especially since the comedy in Thor: Love and Thunder and Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania was widely panned. Wakanda Forever and Guardians of the Galaxy 3 — both of which dealt with loss and had plenty of dark moments — were more positively received.

I feel MCU's trademark humor — which was a draw to audiences in its early days — is now a deterrent. I think people want less funny quips and more sincerity. The Marvels might have that, but that's not the impression I get from the marketing.

People often call the James Cameron Avatar movies corny, but I think the reason they are successful is because they do take themselves seriously, even when dealing with something as ludicrous as a talking whale.

This is an interesting thought, but I’m not sure I agree. The Iron Man films, which were essentially comedies, were the MCU’s bedrock, Ragnarok revitalized Thor, and constant humor is one of the series trademarks. Now, perhaps there has been a shift, as you suggest, but I’d really have to have a clear understanding of exactly WHEN and WHY that shift would have taken place to see it as a major factor.

Honestly, I don’t know which way Marvel should course correct. Half of the critics seem to feel The Marvels problem is that it’s too stand-alone, not tied enough to other films, while half argue that those interlocking narratives are precisely the issue. My impulse is that Marvel needs to simplify narratives, to focus more on individual characters and stories that begin and end in one film, leaving the larger narrative in the background - a return to phase 2 or so. I’d be lying if I said I had much faith in that approach, however.

 

[Ghost93]

This is an interesting thought, but I’m not sure I agree. The Iron Man films, which were essentially comedies, were the MCU’s bedrock, Ragnarok revitalized Thor, and constant humor is one of the series trademarks. Now, perhaps there has been a shift, as you suggest, but I’d really have to have a clear understanding of exactly WHEN and WHY that shift would have taken place to see it as a major factor.

Honestly, I don’t know which way Marvel should course correct. Half of the critics seem to feel The Marvels problem is that it’s too stand-alone, not tied enough to other films, while half argue that those interlocking narratives are precisely the issue. My impulse is that Marvel needs to simplify narratives, to focus more on individual characters and stories that begin and end in one film, leaving the larger narrative in the background - a return to phase 2 or so. I’d be lying if I said I had much faith in that approach, however.

I do agree that the overall narrative needs to be simplified. I think the multiverse has made things way, way too complicated for general audiences and it makes it difficult to care about what is happening.

I also think there are a lot of loose ends that need to be tied up. Whatever happened with Arishem popping up at the end of the Eternals? That's a huge, world-changing event that has just been completely forgotten about. And what about Shang Chi's rings, and the beacon they were sending out? We haven't had any follow up on that either!

 

[erasure fan1]

Again, where are the detailed criticisms? More to the point, where are the posters on these boards replying to thoughtful criticism of the content of Disney’s output by calling the critic a liar?

You just did it to me. You responded to my post and ended with
(And the only criticism of those “terrible” Disney films is that they didn’t give the audience “what they want” (wink wink)
Implying the things people are saying are lies.

“The show wasn’t made for white males.” I said nothing of the sort - I was quite clearly paraphrasing the odious comments of other posters. It certainly seems that you’re making the assumption that films and TV shows without white male leads exclude white male audience members,

Except if you read the boards and paid attention to what I've said. I've said my favorite animated film since lion king was princess and the frog. Favorite star wars under Disney rogue one and mando. Or do you consider Pascal white like you do issacs? I supported captain marvel. Muppets mayhem was fantastic... There's plenty more if you actually paid attention. As for mrs marvel, what more do you want? I thought the show was played out as too much of a higher budget disney channel/nickelodeon show. Maybe it got better? I don't know, it lost me after a couple episodes. Again, so what? Where are all the other people to support it as I've been told it wasn't aimed at me?

Your constant claims of a “small group” of bad apples is utterly absurd in light of the fact that the culture war has been one of, if not THE, dominant elements in American society for several years and that one of the country’s two political parties has made attacks on Disney a very significant part of it’s appeal to voters. The culture war plays a huge role in current discourse about Disney.

Fine you win. The whole world is a bunch of hate mongering jerks who want nothing to do with diversity and Disney has made no errors in the quality of their films.

It’s also the height of absurdity to try and counter the flood of racist and misogynist invective that has been directed at SW by pointing to minority characters that have received fewer attacks - it’s the pop culture equivalent of saying “I can’t be racist, I have a black friend.”

Sorry, but I did not see any level of hate towards the cast of rogue one that you seem to have seen. And why is it so absurd? It makes plenty of sense that if all star wars fans were so toxic, they would have rejected everything with diversity. But they didn't. Maybe I'm looking at it from too positive of a lens. But I'd say you are looking at it from far too negative of one. We can go back and forth for the rest of eternity on this subject. The difference between us is you want to defend Disney at all costs. All I want is for them to make a better product, no matter who is starring.

I bet you can come up with some reasons Cara Dune wasn’t widely attacked, for instance.

And I bet you assume because of her "side" that's why she wasn't attacked. Her acting was criticized as being fairly wooden. And that's a fair assessment. But she was awesome for the part she played, she was perfect for it and I did not see any real objections to her character being female. This is part of the problem I'm having with your argument. People liked the Cara Dune character, but it's invalid because of "reasons". It just doesn't fit your narrative. Just like Lando, Baze, Jyn, Ashoka, Cassian, Qira, Val...

 

[BuddyThomas]

Read the boards. Actually read what they say, not what you want them to say because you don’t want to believe the truth about a lot of posters that agree with you. We’re told Disneys entire output is terrible. But are we given critical assessments of what’s wrong with the films? Discussions of cinematographic or directorial choices? No, the ONLY thing we’re told, over and over, is that the films are too woke, or, more often, that they “don’t give the audience what they want” (wink wink).

What, for instance, is the problem with Ms Marvel, a critically acclaimed series? The star wasn’t hot enough, obviously. The white males who rightfully own the franchise didn’t for her. It didn’t star more universally acceptable actors like Evans or Downey (acceptable because wink wink). It didn’t give the audience “what they want” (wink wink). No comments on story structure, performances, directing… no indication that critics have seen anything other then pictures of the Star or the name of the studio, which, amazingly, were enough to form a definite opinion (wink, wink).

And of course we all have to pretend that a national culture war unlike anything we’ve seen since the 60s, a movement that has elected multiple high office holders and effects every single corner of our culture, couldn’t possibly be motivating the posters here or effecting the fortunes of a studio that is being directly attacked by multiple news channels, commentators, powerful politicians… no we all play dumb. And the only criticism of those “terrible” Disney films is that they didn’t give the audience “what they want” (wink wink).

They don’t go see the movies and yet they consider themselves to be experts on the movies. It’s really pathetic.

 

[Andrew C]

but I did not see any level of hate towards the cast of rogue one that you seem to have seen

 

[Willmark]

So who is the blame getting leveled at if the Marvels bombs?

 

[Casper Gutman]

You just did it to me. You responded to my post and ended with
(And the only criticism of those “terrible” Disney films is that they didn’t give the audience “what they want” (wink wink)
Implying the things people are saying are lies.

Except if you read the boards and paid attention to what I've said. I've said my favorite animated film since lion king was princess and the frog. Favorite star wars under Disney rogue one and mando. Or do you consider Pascal white like you do issacs? I supported captain marvel. Muppets mayhem was fantastic... There's plenty more if you actually paid attention. As for mrs marvel, what more do you want? I thought the show was played out as too much of a higher budget disney channel/nickelodeon show. Maybe it got better? I don't know, it lost me after a couple episodes. Again, so what? Where are all the other people to support it as I've been told it wasn't aimed at me?

Fine you win. The whole world is a bunch of hate mongering jerks who want nothing to do with diversity and Disney has made no errors in the quality of their films.

Sorry, but I did not see any level of hate towards the cast of rogue one that you seem to have seen. And why is it so absurd? It makes plenty of sense that if all star wars fans were so toxic, they would have rejected everything with diversity. But they didn't. Maybe I'm looking at it from too positive of a lens. But I'd say you are looking at it from far too negative of one. We can go back and forth for the rest of eternity on this subject. The difference between us is you want to defend Disney at all costs. All I want is for them to make a better product, no matter who is starring.

And I bet you assume because of her "side" that's why she wasn't attacked. Her acting was criticized as being fairly wooden. And that's a fair assessment. But she was awesome for the part she played, she was perfect for it and I did not see any real objections to her character being female. This is part of the problem I'm having with your argument. People liked the Cara Dune character, but it's invalid because of "reasons". It just doesn't fit your narrative. Just like Lando, Baze, Jyn, Ashoka, Cassian, Qira, Val...

The idea that I “defend Disney at any costs” could not possibly be further from the truth. For years and years I’ve been one of the more critical posters regarding the parks and I’ve argued with more positive posters like Penguin on many occasions. I’m simply unwilling to buy into hysterical, unfair criticism just because I don’t like the company’s direction.

I don’t think you’re motivated by a hatred of diversity, but I DO think it’s important to you not to see the true nature of a significant amount (not a majority) of the criticism on “your side.” When there’s a well- funded network of outlets, online and off, dedicated to attacking media for being woke, when that network has millions and millions of viewers and is backed by some of the most powerful people in society, denying its existence comes off as gaslighting.

You simply cannot reasonably counter claims that a fear of diversity shaped a significant portion of the response to certain films by pointing to responses where those forces are less apparent or even non-existent. First, hate is not logical or consistent. Second, as I said above, the response to each project is shaped by a multitude of elements, and culture war hate, while always present, is more or less dominant based on other factors in each case. I’m not going to go through each film and argue the historical and cultural reasons why reactions to a Hispanic actor might differ from reactions to an African-American one, or why some roles are considered “acceptable” for minority actors.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

View attachment 753011

…internet winner of today

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So who is the blame getting leveled at if the Marvels bombs?

…me and the same four other guys in this basement that brought down last Jedi, the little mermaid, and caused team Disney Orlando to overprice all their products to the point nobody wants them…
…of course

 

[erasure fan1]

I don’t think you’re motivated by a hatred of diversity, but I DO think it’s important to you not to see the true nature of a significant (not a majority) of the criticism on “your side.” When there’s a well- funded network of outlets, online and off, dedicated to attacking media for being woke, when that network has millions and millions of viewers and is backed by some of the most powerful people in society, denying its existence comes off as gaslighting.

What's important to me is quality entertainment. I know that can be subjective, what's quality to me, might not be for someone else. I don't need the criticism to be on my side. I speak up when I see the entirety of a fandom being lumped together with the real toxic people. Notice I didn't say toxic fandom, because most of those that are acting deplorable, are not fans and just looking for something to hate. And as far as this well funded network you speak of. It's on both sides. There are plenty of well funded, mainstream outlets cherry picking a few dill holes on Twitter to prove the fanbases are so anti woke. Essentially doing the same as the haters. They're fanning the flames of, the worlds against diversity!!!

I don't deny there's a group that hates "wokeness". But what I don't believe is that they are enough to do the kind of damage to Disneys box office that we've seen. Because there's plenty of diverse content that has been well received. Disney is an easy target right now because their films haven't been great. I firmly believe films like light-year or strange world, or any of the hot button movies that struggled, do all that much better if they hadn't had the "woke" aspects. Why? Because they just weren't very good. Were the hot button aspects an issue? Yes, for some I'm sure they were. But then something like peacemaker comes along and is pretty much universally liked, despite the LGBTQ aspects being much more prevalent. Some people here said "well that show got lots of hate too". But what happened? The show was fantastic, so the vocal toxic minority were drowned out and the show was a success. Because in the end, quality almost always wins out.

Disney just keeps making bad decisions. Haunted mansion is a good example. A very diverse cast, that no one had an issue with. But yet it failed, and it failed hard. Not because of it's diverse cast that the toxic fans attacked, but because of it's poor quality. Couple that with a very questionable release date that made Disney seem like it was afraid of five nights at Freddy's. It also seems like they were content with sacrificing box office for a D+ push. It was a recipe for failure.

 

[Casper Gutman]

What's important to me is quality entertainment. I know that can be subjective, what's quality to me, might not be for someone else. I don't need the criticism to be on my side. I speak up when I see the entirety of a fandom being lumped together with the real toxic people. Notice I didn't say toxic fandom, because most of those that are acting deplorable, are not fans and just looking for something to hate. And as far as this well funded network you speak of. It's on both sides. There are plenty of well funded, mainstream outlets cherry picking a few dill holes on Twitter to prove the fanbases are so anti woke. Essentially doing the same as the haters. They're fanning the flames of, the worlds against diversity!!!

I don't deny there's a group that hates "wokeness". But what I don't believe is that they are enough to do the kind of damage to Disneys box office that we've seen. Because there's plenty of diverse content that has been well received. Disney is an easy target right now because their films haven't been great. I firmly believe films like light-year or strange world, or any of the hot button movies that struggled, do all that much better if they hadn't had the "woke" aspects. Why? Because they just weren't very good. Were the hot button aspects an issue? Yes, for some I'm sure they were. But then something like peacemaker comes along and is pretty much universally liked, despite the LGBTQ being much more prevalent. Some people here said "well that show got lots of hate too". But what happened? The show was fantastic, so the vocal toxic minority were drowned out and the show was a success. Because in the end, quality almost always wins out.

Disney just keeps making bad decisions. Haunted mansion is a good example. A very diverse cast, that no one had an issue with. But yet it failed, and it failed hard. Not because of it's diverse cast that the toxic fans attacked, but because of it's poor quality. Couple that with a very questionable release date that made Disney seem like it was afraid of five nights at Freddy's. It also seems like they were content with sacrificing box office for a D+ push. It was a recipe for failure.

Absolutely no one has lumped the entirety of any fandom in with toxic fans. Since I’m a fan of both SW and Marvel, it would be a very very strange thing for me to do. This is a strawman. So is the idea that anyone is claiming the culture war is the only thing dictating Disney’s box office fortunes. But it IS a factor, and it is prevalent on these boards.

You say you don’t need to worry about “your side” and in the next breath make the claim that toxic fans aren’t fans… trying to purify “your side.”

I’m not going to get you to see what you don’t want to see. You want to “both sides” and deny or attempt to downplay the impact of a culture war movement that has played a very significant role in ELECTING A PRESIDENT, to pretend that there is some equivalent to an entire political party attacking Disney for years and years. It’s an extremely widespread phenomenon in modern America, of course - steadfastly pretending reality isn’t happening because acknowledging it would raise profoundly uncomfortable questions that might require difficult choices.

 

[flynnibus]

What, for instance, is the problem with Ms Marvel, a critically acclaimed series? The star wasn’t hot enough, obviously. The white males who rightfully own the franchise didn’t for her. It didn’t star more universally acceptable actors like Evans or Downey (acceptable because wink wink). It didn’t give the audience “what they want” (wink wink). No comments on story structure, performances, directing… no indication that critics have seen anything other then pictures of the Star or the name of the studio, which, amazingly, were enough to form a definite opinion (wink, wink).

I didn’t want a mini series on pakistan or their family traditions. Too much of the show was focused on trying to broaden people’s horizons and try to elevate her culture as the story vs a story i was interested in.

It got me to read up more on the partition… so i guess they succeeded. But it didn’t make me go and tell my friends this is must see tv.

It was just basically soiderman… but with the ghostbusters 3 treatment.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I didn’t want a mini series on pakistan or their family traditions. Too much of the show was focused on trying to broaden people’s horizons and try to elevate her culture as the story vs a story i was interested in.

It got me to read up more on the partition… so i guess they succeeded. But it didn’t make me go and tell my friends this is must see tv.

It was just basically soiderman… but with the ghostbusters 3 treatment.

I could not possibly disagree with this more. I found nothing didactic about the show whatsoever - the family traditions seemed both organic and natural, not overwhelming the stories or characters but instead giving them a flavor I hadn't experienced before. What in the text makes you think they were trying to "broaden people's horizons" or "elevate her culture?" Do you feel that is simply inherent in depictions of unfamiliar cultures?

Being annoyed by discussion of the partition seems a bit like being annoyed by mention of the holocaust in films featuring Magneto. Its part of the characters and their story.

As for your last sentence - Ghostbusters 3 was awful for many reasons - terrible direction, a reliance on rambling improv in a story not suited to that kind of humor, bad characters, a fundamentally unclear reason for existing - absolutely none of that applies to Ms Marvel. I'm trying to give your comments the benefit of the doubt, but they do come across (especially the Ghostbusters comment) as complaining about the show being "woke." If I'm being unfair, I welcome clarification.

 

[TP2000]

So who is the blame getting leveled at if the Marvels bombs?

I'd love to know that too. And I've asked that before, but in a slightly different way...

Who is the blame getting leveled at if The Marvels becomes Disney's 10th (Tenth!) box office bomb in a row in 2023?

 

[Ghost93]

I'd love to know that too. And I've asked that before, but in a slightly different way...

Who is the blame getting leveled at if The Marvels becomes Disney's 10th (Tenth!) box office bomb in a row in 2023?

I think Bob Iger, Bob Chapek, Kevin Feige and Nia DaCosta all have varying levels of blame.

I think the weakness of previous MCU movies like Ant-man and the Wasp Quantumania and Thor: Love and Thunder and the oversaturation of the market with the (mostly medicore) Disney Plus shows has severely harmed the Marvel brand.

In retrospect, I think this movie should have just been called Captain Marvel 2, as originally intended. I think they expected Ms. Marvel to be a big hit on Disney Plus and thought Monica was a breakout character in WandaVision, and thought selling the film as a crossover would help it at the box office. But unfortunately, few people watched Ms. Marvel and the people who decided to skip the show last year would probably view it as "homework" needed to understand The Marvels.

I also think the body swapping premise, while probably a lot of fun, isn't really a draw to most superhero fans. I think the Secret Invasion show should have been scrapped entirely and Captain Marvel 2 should have been about the Skrull invasion on earth.

And from a purely cold and calculating business perspective, it probably would have helped to have a male character be on the team so it didn't seem like a girls only film. I personally think it's stupid that many guys won't see a movie led by women when women do that all the time for male-led movies, but it's a sad reality of the world we live in. Maybe Shang-Chi or Thor could have been brought in somehow. Or they could have introduced Noh-Var (also known as Marvel Boy) if they wanted all the main characters to have "Marvel" in their titles.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I think Bob Iger, Bob Chapek, Kevin Feige and Nia DeCosta all have varying levels of blame.

I think the weakness of previous MCU movies like Ant-man and the Wasp Quantumania and Thor: Love and Thunder and the oversaturation of the market with the (mostly medicore) Disney Plus shows has severely harmed the Marvel brand.

In retrospect, I think this movie should have just been called Captain Marvel 2, as originally intended. I think they expected Ms. Marvel to be a big hit on Disney Plus and thought Monica was a breakout character in WandaVision, and thought selling the film as a crossover would help it at the box office. But unfortunately, few people watched Ms. Marvel and the people who decided to skip the show last year would probably view it as "homework" needed to understand The Marvels.

I also think the body swapping premise, while probably a lot of fun, isn't really a draw to most superhero fans. I think the Secret Invasion show should have been scrapped entirely and Captain Marvel 2 should have been about the Skrull invasion on earth.

And from a purely cold and calculating business perspective, it probably would have helped to have a male character be on the team so it didn't seem like a girls only film. I personally think it's stupid that many guys won't see a movie led by women when women do that all the time for male-led movies, but it's a sad reality of the world we live in. Maybe Shang-Chi or Thor could have been brought in somehow. Or they could have introduced Noh-Var (also known as Marvel Boy) if they wanted all the main characters to have "Marvel" in their titles.

IT'S NOT BODY SWAPPING!

 

[Ghost93]

IT'S NOT BODY SWAPPING!

Whatever, location swapping. Calm down.

Anyway, I'm sure about a year or two from now we'll get the REAL truth about what happened behind the scenes on The Marvels. I suspect Nia DaCosta had a unique vision for the film that was slowly taken away from her by Kevin Feige and Disney who wanted her to stick to the generic MCU formula. She seems like she's already trying to distance herself from the film (beyond the obligated press interviews), and I suspect that's because she's not happy with the final product due to studio meddling.