Disney’s RFID "Magic Band" arrives on the FCC

[englanddg]

Huh?

Ok, so maybe I misunderstood your reasoning. If I did, apologies in advance. Let me re-hash what I see as your points regarding the wise investment in FP+.

1) People stay away from Disney Parks due to wait times, and as a result, Disney sees attendance attrition to local competitors

2) If people could guarantee a reserved spot on certain rides, they wouldn't even consider local competitors.

3) People are willing and will ignore local competitors if they can pre-plan their entire Disney Vacation online with ADRs and FP+.

Did I misunderstand?

Also, have you ever seen the standard line at HP? It's insane!

 

[dadddio]

I understand the logic of the SB line possibly becoming shorter. But as a poster has suggested, it will make a way too complicated trip turn into an unbelievable complicated trip. It will take any and all spontaniety (sp) out of a trip, which many of us know makes the trip more enjoyable. I know myself and many others believe it is just a way to make all of us adopt the every second scheduled crowd. You know the ones that run purely on Monster, Redbull, and caffiene. It is a shame really because they will miss many of the wonderful things the resort and the parks in particular have to offer.

And, I am not keen on having to plan my attraction plans 180+ days out. Yes I can plan a general trip including EMH dates, co-ordinating which parks on which days that have EMH and making dining plans for that park for that day. But ,planning attractions is a little bit too much. There are a whole list of what if's like deciding not to do a park on a particular day and go to another park instead. Changing dining plans is easy, but changing stuff can lead to planning and time going to waste.

I have grown to accept fastpass for what it is and can work within that system effectively.And if the SB lines become the next short lines, I will abandon FP happily. But I fear that FP+ will just make wait times longer for all people. And I think it is because our society is the right now, right away, all for me society.

I get your point, but it should be noted that FPs will be prereserved 60 days out, not 180.

I am not of the group that prereserving FPs will make it more onerous than the current process. On the front end, it's not the big of a deal for me because I had to plan out the parks months before to schedule ADRs. If my plans change, the FP+ system allows me to change my FP reservations.

 

[dadddio]

Ok, so maybe I misunderstood your reasoning. If I did, apologies in advance. Let me re-hash what I see as your points regarding the wise investment in FP+.

1) People stay away from Disney Parks due to wait times, and as a result, Disney sees attendance attrition to local competitors

2) If people could guarantee a reserved spot on certain rides, they wouldn't even consider local competitors.

3) People are willing and will ignore local competitors if they can pre-plan their entire Disney Vacation online with ADRs and FP+.

Did I misunderstand?

Also, have you ever seen the standard line at HP? It's insane!

You did misunderstand.

I don't believe that #1 is accurate, at all. This plan is not directly about attrition.

Most newbies include WDW in their plans in one of two ways. They plan one day for WDW or they plan one day for all four parks. So they plan a week in the area with one or four days at WDW and the rest either planned to go to US and Seaworld or wherever. By getting these people to plan more, they are more likely to realize that a first time visit to WDW is going to eat up the bulk of those seven days and once these days are preplan need for WDW, people will be unlikely to change their plans if they see something shiny once they are in the area (#2).

#3 is absolutely correct. People will stick to their prereserved plan if it is paying off rather than ditching it.

 

[RandomPrincess]

I get your point, but it should be noted that FPs will be prereserved 60 days out, not 180.

I am not of the group that prereserving FPs will make it more onerous than the current process. On the front end, it's not the big of a deal for me because I had to plan out the parks months before to schedule ADRs. If my plans change, the FP+ system allows me to change my FP reservations.

The 60 days out seems odd to me since you don't have to have your trip paid off until 45 days out. I guess its the same with ADRs though. They have people making all their dining and ride plans but they can still back out if their trip with no consequences.

 

[englanddg]

You did misunderstand.

I don't believe that #1 is accurate, at all. This plan is not directly about attrition.

Most newbies include WDW in their plans in one of two ways. They plan one day for WDW or they plan one day for all four parks. So they plan a week in the area with one or four days at WDW and the rest either planned to go to US and Seaworld or wherever. By getting these people to plan more, they are more likely to realize that a first time visit to WDW is going to eat up the bulk of those seven days and once these days are preplan need for WDW, people will be unlikely to change their plans if they see something shiny once they are in the area (#2).

#3 is absolutely correct. People will stick to their prereserved plan if it is paying off rather than ditching it.

So, your contention is that, by forcing people to plan out their vacations in advance, that makes the Parks / Resorts more attractive, and therefore people are more likely to either stay longer and / or ignore local competition?

Has it occurred to you that the reason people plan longer vacations at WDW after their first visit isn't because of pre-planning tools / utilities? It's because they visited doing a 4 park or 7 day visit, and realized how much there is to actually see and do?

Furthermore, has it occurred to you that by making the trip more a hassle to plan, rather than investing in experiences and attractions, WDW might actually be chasing away first time visitors who see it as too complicated to manage?

 

[dadddio]

The 60 days out seems odd to me since you don't have to have your trip paid off until 45 days out. I guess its the same with ADRs though. They have people making all their dining and ride plans but they can still back out if their trip with no consequences.

It mirrors the resort online check-in timeframe.

 

[dadddio]

So, your contention is that, by forcing people to plan out their vacations in advance, that makes the Parks / Resorts more attractive, and therefore people are more likely to either stay longer and / or ignore local competition?

No, but I will contend that WDW is already 'more' attractive and that by preplanning, newbies will discover just how attractive it is and plan to spend more time on property.

Has it occurred to you that the reason people plan longer vacations at WDW after their first visit isn't because of pre-planning tools / utilities? It's because they visited doing a 4 park or 7 day visit, and realized how much there is to actually see and do?

You are making my very point.

Furthermore, has it occurred to you that by making the trip more a hassle to plan, rather than investing in experiences and attractions, WDW might actually be chasing away first time visitors who see it as too complicated to manage?

No. Additional experiences are not as important for the first time visitor because they haven't yet experienced all of the other awesome experiences. It should also be noted that 1) WDW is also adding additional attractions, as they have for some time and 2) many would consider the ability to prereserve FPs and to do it through their smartphone to be 'value added'.

 

[englanddg]

No, but I will contend that WDW is already 'more' attractive and that by preplanning, newbies will discover just how attractive it is and plan to spend more time on property.

I would contend that "newbies" find it overwhelming. They have enough trouble understanding what the Dining Plan is and how it works, much less planning out ride times 60 days (or even one day) in advance. Adding tools to preplan out trips may be up some Disnerd's (which I am happily one, by the way) alley. The same group who goes every year, or multiple times a year, and uses spreadsheets and calendars to plan out every last minute of their trip.

This is not the average vacationer, and it is a VERY far cry from the average WDW n00b.

You are making my very point.

No, I'm not. I'm stating that by making the trip more complex to initially plan and book, it may actually be turning away prospective guests...unless that was your point. I don't think it was. My contention is that the best advertising for repeat visits is what is there, not what Disney shoves in your face with online and overwhelming planning tools and utilities.

No. Additional experiences are not as important for the first time visitor because they haven't yet experienced all of the other awesome experiences. It should also be noted that 1) WDW is also adding additional attractions, as they have for some time and 2) many would consider the ability to prereserve FPs and to do it through their smartphone to be 'value added'.

What "additional attractions?" A DLC clone ride? Adding a restroom that has a tower?

What about closing down Sounds Dangerous to be used as a queue for Jedi Academy?

Ok, now is time for me to chime in as someone who actually books and pays for Disney vacations (youknow...a customer)...

When I went, for the first time as a parent, in 2010, I was deeply reserved. I thought that my impression of Disney was colored by my own youth and love for it growing up. The ME experience was terrible (as a "first time" guest).

The bus was dirty, the driver was annoying, the Cast at MCO was reletively unhelpful. Check in at CBR was horrid. I literally stood there, not knowing what to do, in the wrong line, only to be told that I couldn't check in here, as I'd done online check in and was redirected to an unattended window where I had no line, but had to wait anyhow as there was no one at the counter. Mind you, I was surrounded by cast members, and not one spoke up to give me advice, direction, etc.

The Bell Hop who took me to my room smelled of liquer and was obviously hung over. He kept making very awkward conversation with me and the Kid. I couldn't wait until he left, and didn't even let him in our room, tipping him at the curb and transporting our own luggage just to get him to go away.

They were testing "Wifi" at the resort that year, and the speed and reception was terrible (as was my experience in 2012 at Pop), which made my life very difficult as I do internet related work for a living, and I don't have the luxury of "checking out" for two weeks. I need email, I need remote access, and I need reliable internet. Disney has only provided that twice, in 2011 at CBR and 2013 at Disneyland (though the Wifi at the Disneyland Resort stinks if you leave your room), when I had the luxury of wired internet.

Phone service in all years (I have Sprint) has been terrible. More than once I've had situations pop up at work where I've had to run outside to get decent signal, talk to the person on the other end (because I can only get decent signal outside), and run back into the room because that's the only place that has even half decent internet.

Mousekeeping is spotty, grossly inconsistent.

Disney does a VERY poor job of explaining how things work to new guests, even when you have your "first time visit" buttons on.

ADRs have gone out of control to the point where you pretty much can write off any spontaneous table dining if you don't have one (this is something I noticed in 2011, and it's not fun).

I can keep listing. ALL of these things are items that a first time guest who is NOT fond of Disney, and is very aware of the dent in their checkbook, will notice...well before a poorly designed and expensive fastpass pre-booking system.

I suggest Disney get back to basics.

 

[ParentsOf4]

So, your contention is that, by forcing people to plan out their vacations in advance, that makes the Parks / Resorts more attractive, and therefore people are more likely to either stay longer and / or ignore local competition?

I'll start by quoting CEO Bob Iger at the most recent earnings call:

The goal is for us to roll out My Magic Plus at some point this year. It's at various levels of beta testing right now. We want to very careful that it is working absolutely right before we roll it out to the general public. There's no reason for us to rush it to market.

In terms of what we can expect from it return-wise, you're right; it's somewhat -- although we've modeled it -- it's somewhat difficult to be specific about. You can expect that it will create a better experience, and with that we believe people will spend more time at our parks and ultimately deliver more business per guest.

We also know that it will deliver some up-sell opportunities in terms of the array of products the basically digital technology will allow, and we also think it's going to give us somewhat of a competitive advantage. I think you have to look at all of those things. Basically new products to sell, better experience that should obviously keep people coming back for more or staying longer, and then the competitive advantage would be the way to do it. But I can't get specific with you, Doug, in terms of how to model that.

Wall Street has been grappling with NextGen's business model for some time. In his response, Iger is intentionally vague but, publicly, is indicating the business model behind MyMagic+ is higher revenue through longer guest stays driven by "a better experience".

Beyond the whiz-bang "Gee, Cinderella knows my name", it unclear so far what guests actually gain for NextGen's $1B+ investment. Guests previously could combine room, theme park admission, and charging privileges on a single media before. So far, reports are the new system (already in use) is not appreciably faster than the old system, perhaps saving a few seconds at best.

MyMagic+ does not increase ride capacity so the FP+ aspect is largely a shell game. For every attraction I spend an hour less in line because of FP+, there will be three or four attractions I spending 20 minutes extra in the Standby Line because of FP+. In fact, if Iger's dream scenario comes true, we all end up spending even more time in line because daily park crowd levels will increase, meaning longer lines on all attractions.

Ultimately, that's the most frustrating aspect of MyMagic+. It benefits WDW's guests very little and, instead, is designed to keep WDW guests captive at a theme park resort that has changed very little in 15 years.

 

[englanddg]

I'll start by quoting CEO Bob Iger at the most recent earnings call:

Wall Street has been grappling with NextGen's business model for some time. In his response, Iger is intentionally being vague but, publicly, is indicating the business model behind MyMagic+ is higher revenue through longer guest stays driven by "a better experience".

Beyond the whiz-bang "Gee, Cinderella knows my name", it unclear so far what guests actually gain for NextGen's $1B+ investment. Guests previously could combine room, theme park admission, and charging privileges on a single media before. So far, reports are the new system (already in use) is not appreciably faster than the old system, perhaps saving a few seconds at best.

MyMagic+ does not increase ride capacity so the FP+ aspect is largely a shell game. For every attraction I spend an hour less in line because of FP+, there will be three or four attractions I spending 20 minutes extra in the Standby Line because of FP+. In fact, if Iger's dream scenario comes true, we all will end up spending even more time in line than in the past because daily park crowd levels will increase, meaning longer lines on all attractions.

Ultimately, that's the most frustrating aspect of MyMagic+. It benefits WDW's guests very little and, instead, is designed to keep WDW guests captive at a theme park resort that has changed very little in 15 years.

I completely agree. And, with respect to Iger's comments (which I have read before), he completely misses what makes Guests "spend money", I think.

What makes me want to buy an extra t-shirt? Experience and value. Not overhyped technology.

This reminds me of people (who I deal with daily) who pour tons of money into SEO as the "future" of their business, whilst ignoring bricks and morter and customer service. But, outsourcing and crappy uses of "technology" is what is being taught at Harvard Business these days, so I guess I'm too dumb and uneducated to have an opinion.

 

[CDavid]

It is my belief that part of FP+ will be a significant increase in the percentage of FPs available for each ride which will further reduce the length of the SB line, but not the wait time for SB.

You can't just arbitrarily assume that greater Fastpass availability will lead to fewer people in the standby line, in fact just the opposite could be true, depending in part on how many people don't plan in advance (not every guest even uses Fastpass) or their reason or necessity to join standby instead of FP. If 100 people can get a FP during a given hour, that doesn't necessarily mean there will be exactly 100 fewer persons in the standby queue. Indeed, a shorter standby line will entice more people to enter, not less, and their wait times will be longer than before.

We do know that with more "slots" taken by Fastpass, on an attraction where the capacity hasn't changed one bit, that the standby line will move slower regardless on the number of people in it.

 

[Victor Kelly]

The capacity of lets say POTC will remain the same. Let us say that for example, that the capacity is 1500 people per hour. There are 750 FP+ per hour reserved and 750 standby line slots. The capacity remains the same.

But let us suppose that Disney says ok lets increase the hard capacity to a new theoretical capacity from 1500 to 3000 per hour. This now puts the attraction way over capacity. Now they say that 1500 people are FP+ and the other 1500 are stand by. Now let us suppose that the FP+ tickets are taken, stand by is running at 500 per hour due to the fact that FP+ is at capacity. It is still 500 people per hour over capacity. The standby line will wait while the FP people are boarded. This will increase wait time for standby riders. This will not account for surge due to inclement weather of general chaos.

Hopefully it is option one, where the capacity will not change, remain the same and both lines being loaded equally.

 

[luv]

Planning your next WDW vacation:

Planning your next Uni vacation:

Can't be posted too many times!

Like Sweetpee, we aren't even trying to get our degrees in FP+.

Fire-breathing dragons? Cool.

 

[CDavid]

But let us suppose that Disney says ok lets increase the hard capacity to a new theoretical capacity from 1500 to 3000 per hour. This now puts the attraction way over capacity. Now they say that 1500 people are FP+ and the other 1500 are stand by. Now let us suppose that the FP+ tickets are taken, stand by is running at 500 per hour due to the fact that FP+ is at capacity. It is still 500 people per hour over capacity. The standby line will wait while the FP people are boarded. This will increase wait time for standby riders. This will not account for surge due to inclement weather of general chaos.

Total attraction capacity is a fixed quantity and will not and cannot change. The only thing that can vary is the percentage of boarding "slots" given to FP (of any type) or standby. So, if 500 FP's are available each hour, on a ride with a 1,000 person hourly capacity, instead of the standby line boarding 1,000 it will only board half that many. Hence, the line is moving half as fast (500 people per hour) as it did previously.

Again, what we can't just assume (though many erroneously do) is that giving 500 people a FP or FP+ means there will be 500 fewer persons in the standby line.

 

[DisneyJoe]

I would contend that "newbies" find it overwhelming.

I would agree. This is why my business, and that of other Disney focused travel agencies, are thriving. Our clientele consists of those new to planning a Disney trip and those who have been many times and just want to shoot us an email and have us do the work.

 

[englanddg]

I would agree. This is why my business, and that of other Disney focused travel agencies, are thriving. Our clientele consists of those new to planning a Disney trip and those who have been many times and just want to shoot us an email and have us do the work.

As wonderful as you find it (and I do wish you and your business the best), I think that is a BAD thing. When it requires a travel agent to plan out a trip as it's too complex to understand, and it's a DOMESTIC trip...that should be a red flag.

 

[lego606]

In perhaps the post of the year, @Cosmic Commando identified the difference between planning a WDW vacation vs. planning a Universal vacation:

Not sure WDW's strategy is going to work.

Here's how I'm planning my next WDW vacation:

 

[luv]

I would agree. This is why my business, and that of other Disney focused travel agencies, are thriving. Our clientele consists of those new to planning a Disney trip and those who have been many times and just want to shoot us an email and have us do the work.

I've thought of this before! More than ever, I foresee people saying, "Call a travel agent" as an answer to questions about how to visit WDW, lol.

It was bad enough when they needed the names, addresses and birthdays of everyone staying in the room. Now, it seems excessively confusing and like a little too much work (that WE must do) for a dang hotel reservation. So much easier to google "Hilton", "Marriott", etc. SO MUCH EASIER!!

 

[englanddg]

Here's how I'm planning my next WDW vacation:

Been there, done that...loved it!

 

[DisneyJoe]

As wonderful as you find it (and I do wish you and your business the best), I think that is a BAD thing. When it requires a travel agent to plan out a trip as it's too complex to understand, and it's a DOMESTIC trip...that should be a red flag.

You'd be shocked then at the other trips we help people with.