englanddg
One Little Spark...
Since I would never hire a travel agent, I probably would.
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Disney’s RFID "Magic Band" arrives on the FCC
- Thread starter GrumpyFan
- Start date
Since I would never hire a travel agent, I probably would.
That the beauty of the FP experience sets.
What I envision is something along the lines of this January’s sweepstakes where the guest merely chooses what kind of experience that he wants from four or five selections and a FP experience set is automagically generated. The guest can then modify each of the FPs as he sees fit (per the T&C). This makes it super simple for any guest to preschedule his FPs and is a great value added service for travel agents.
You keep insisting that this will be overwhelming when the T&C and everything that TPTB have released suggests that it will be quite simply for newbies and slightly more complex for experienced overplanners like you and me.
Every single time that I have visited WDW, I have found something new. Sometimes, it’s a new attraction. Sometimes, it’s a new or revamped restaurant. Sometimes, it’s an awesomely themed rest area with restrooms, recharging stations, seating area, stroller parking, water features, and even a tower.
Everything about closing Sounds Dangerous seems like a good idea.
Unlike pretty much every other person on these boards?
I don’t know what you want me to tell you. Your comments were kind of all over the place, so I’ll have to handle them individually. 1) By most accounts, wifi has been consistently improving since its introduction. Moving to property-wide wifi and all of MM+ is a large project. 2) If I absolutely had to access the internet for my job, I’d use my aircard, rather than rely on typically horrible hotel internet. What did you do while at sea? 3) Sprint stinks. You’ll get no argument from me on that.
I'm not sure why you believe this to be true.
WDW is a business. Getting people to fill up the parks is good for business. Minimizing wait times is also good for that business.
First, I'm at a loss as to how MM+ keeps anyone captive. Second, I'll have to assume that 'changed very little' is in the eye of the beholder. I'd call an entirely new themepark, over fifteen other new attractions, better than half a dozen significantly revamped attractions, two big outside-the-parks attractions, and half a dozen new resort hotels to be significant change. Others may differ.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
I suggest you read the following post.
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/fastpass-’s-possible-impact-on-standby-lines.858496/#post-5279359
I think you will find it informative.
What's good for a business often is not good for its customers. I'm sure Disney would like WDW to be operating at near capacity every day. WDW at near capacity is not a particularly fun place to be.
Since the opening of DAK, WDW has changed very little. If you doubt that, simply compare expansions during the 1998-2013 after the opening of DAK compared with the prior 15 years. Alternatively, compare it to what's happened over the last 15 years at the much smaller Universal or SeaWorld. By comparison, WDW has stagnated.
I never suggested that it will be an even exchange. However, there will be an effect.
Under the current FP system, my wife and I typically ride TSM four times; three with FP and one first thing with no real line. With FP+, we will only be able to get one FP for the ride. Therefore, if we still do rope drop, we will ride it once first thing and the second time with our FP. However, my wife is a 'sleep in on vacation' person, so we probably won't do rope drop. Still, if we ride once with a FP, we aren't going to wait in a huge line to ride it. Therefore, we will go from four rides to one, opening up two slots in the FP line that will certainly be taken by someone who other wise would have been relegated to the SB line. We also no longer will wait SB, which will open up one other slot in the SB line. Given that my family isn't the only one riding TSM multiple times via the FP line and not being willing to wait in a long line for a reride, it's easy to see how people will be pulled from the SB line into the FP line. Factor in the rumored FP percentage increase and that's additional people pulled from the SB line into the faster FP line.
In most cases, that's not correct simply because the length of the line isn't apparentfrom outside of the line. People will decide whether or not to join the SB line based on the posted wait times, not the length of the SB line.
This is correct and I stated as much in my post.
I don't believe that anyone is suggesting that FP+ will increase ride capacity, beyond overbooking to account for FP+ no-shows.
That being said, I don't believe that we can rely on SB and FP being loaded equally. They aren't currently, after all. FP has priority. SB is 'stand by'.
I read it. It has a few flaws. First, it ignores the fact that the company appears to be expanding FP in depth as well as breadth. Second, it ignores the fact that FP+ reduces the total number of potential line holders by trimming away repeat FP riders.
Enter MM+. They are clearly attempting to get at this very issue.
As mentioned in a previous post, WDW has added many, many attractions in this time period. The mere fact that Universal and SeaWorld have had to get on their game to compete doesn't change that.
Not to play into the Universal v Disney vibe that all threads must turn into, but it should be noted that US, IoA, and SeaWorld all trail in attendance to any of the WDW parks. Heck, you have to add those three parks attendance together to top what MK alone attracts.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
You completely missed the point of the post I linked to. FP+ does not increase ride capacity. It only changes how capacity is distributed.
Today, for example, everyone might wait 20 minutes to ride Haunted Mansion without a FP line. MM+ does not increase HM capacity. So, if I get a FP+ for HM, I might have to wait 5 minutes. However, someone in the Standby line will end up waiting 35 minutes as a result. Total wait time does not change, only how that wait time is distributed. (Note that I'm not getting into queuing theory to explain the complex dynamics of how lines actually work; just trying to keep it simple for now.)
Again, you miss the point. FP+ reduces nothing; it simply redistributes.
It could be argued that FP+ is more "fair" because all WDW guests will have a more equal shot at getting FP+. That I won't disagree with but it depends on your definition of "fair".
Is it fairer to give FP+ to those guests who are too lazy to do their homework to understand how the current FP system works? Alternatively, is it fairer to reward those who take the time to learn the existing FP system? FP+ rewards the uninformed. Is that fair?
One of the goals of MM+ is to add entertainment on smart phones or in queues because of long lines. The goal is to improve the theme park experience by entertaining those standing in long lines, perhaps the most common complaint WDW receives. However, those with smart phones already have access to entertainment while just look at Test Track as a prime example of how adding "entertainment" to a queue ends up frustrating many of those it's trying to entertain.
As an alternative, I suggest most WDW guests would have a better experience if Disney took the estimated $1-to-2B being spent on MM+ to provide additional brick and mortar attractions. $2B could be used (for example) to build 4-to-5 land upgrades & expansions. Would WDW be a better experience with MM+ or with 4-to-5 land expansions?
Victor Kelly
Well-Known Member
Exactly. But the goons running WDO have been known to make bad decisions in the past. Whatever the capacity split, it will never be equal to stand by, and will certainly favor FP+. Even though there is a hard capacity for an attraction, it does not mean that they cannot bump the capacity into what WDO believes the attraction can now hold based upon flow during the day.
My real concern since this thread started and I have had time to think more, is that SB lines will be longer and have longer wait times due to an exceedingly large amount of capacity being reserved for FP+. I am a firm believer in wait your turn and that we need to slow down and be more patient. I and many of my friends that are frequent visitors to Disney parks find it depressing that we will have to plan everything down to the minute and no spontaneous activity during the vacation.
A Disney vacation can be very busy and still relaxing due to spontaneous activities. If people schedule too much they will miss many many things. For our honeymoon, we were on the run everyday almost all day. Dinning reservations kept us moving as did the EMH days. Our upcoming trip in Dec 2014 will be more relaxed. I scheduled way too much for us because I wanted to show my wife everything on her first trip, and it was a 14 day trip. Lesson learned. And I am a veteran park visitor with 40 trips under my belt. I feel, that if we had needed to schedule attractions into that time it would have been way way too much.
I understand the concept of FP+, more efficient park visit. FP was to enable more shopping, eating and utilizing A,B,C ticket attractions, while waiting for D and E ticket rides. FP is ok, I really am still reluctant to use the system unless there is no other way.Yes, FP works, but I have noticed sharp increases in wait SB times for Peter Pan, Big Thunder, Space Mountain, etc. And FP+ will do that to all attractions.
Your post shows a basic misunderstanding of how FP works. To better understand why you are wrong in your above point, you have to think of FP as it was originally developed. FP was basically a virtual queue. While a FP holder wasn’t in the physical line, they were queued for the ride. Instead of waiting in that physical line, the FP holder was locked into a return time for the ride that was an hour or two away. The total wait time for the FP rider that you discuss in your post isn’t the few minutes that they stood in the physical FP line, but the time that the FP holder was in the virtual queue.
The way to really see that your theory is wrong is if you imagine a scenario where there was no SB line, at all, and every rider was scheduled to return at a specific time. In this scenario, the average wait time would drop to just a few minutes, even though ride capacity did not change.
It should also be noted that the rules put in place by the T&C while not reducing capacity, actually reduce the pool of riders, as I explained in an earlier post.
’Fairness’ is a red herring. WDW is a for profit business. This is about maximizing revenue, not being 'fair'. One way that this is done at WDW is by maximizing guest happiness. If TPTB can make more people happy by letting them sleep in and still get a TSM FP, then they are going to do that. If they can make more people happy by limiting me to one TSM FP per day, then they’re going to do that, also.
The company has been pretty open about it’s goals for MM+. I cannot find the bolded one anywhere.
Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Those billions are already spent, so they cannot use that money to do any of those things that you desire. Debating whether or not they should have done something else with a big pile of money when we don’t even really understand how MM+ will work seems kind of pointless to me.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
FP/FP+ is similar to a dining reservation. When I have a dinner reservation at 6 PM, I don’t sit around waiting for it. I do things. The perception is that I am not “waiting”, that I am not queued. Conversely, when I am sitting in the restaurant’s lobby, the perception is that I am “waiting”. A dinner reservation is about creating a “better experience”, the objective of MM+ as stated by Iger. Ask someone if they’d rather sit in a restaurant lobby for an hour and get a table at 6 PM or call ahead of time for a 6 PM reservation and be seated immediately once they arrive. When it comes to the human element of “waiting”, perception is everything. In this sense, FP/FP+ is similar to a dining reservation.
The difference between FP/FP+ and a dining reservation is that, unlike a restaurant where I might eat only one meal, there are many WDW attractions that I want ride throughout the entire day. I might have FP+ (i.e. “reservations”) for Peter Pan, IASW, and HM and that’s great. However, I am going to end up waiting for every other attraction, watching those FP+ guests walk by, my frustration level growing. FP+ increases this frustration because it increases the number of attractions offering FP+. Without any FP/FP+ line, my frustration is reduced because no one receives special treatment. Everyone is treated equally. With expanded FP+ offerings, my frustration level increases because there are more attractions where guests receive preferential treatment over me. Just ask any guest in the Peter Pan Standby line how they feel as guests walk in through the FP line and “cut” in front of them. All you have to do is look at the faces of those in Standby lines to realize the frustration is palpable. FP+ multiplies that emotional response by increasing the number of attractions with two queues. It’s great for the 3 attractions where I get special treatment but stinks for every other attraction.
In the sceanrio you describe with no Standby line, only a FP line, then FP effectively becomes a restaurant that only takes reservations, no walk-ins. Wait time is eliminated not because demand is not there but only because people know they have no chance of being seated without a reservation. People might be willing to sit in a lobby of a popular restaurant if it will be an hour before they are seated. However, no one is willing to sit in that lobby if there is absolutely no chance they will be seated.
Reference to a virtual queue ignores the human element of queuing.
Actually, you are queued. You just aren't standing in line, exactly like when you have a FP.
You are completely making my point. If the restaurant is booked solid, then hypothetically no one has to wait for a meal. The wait time is not tied to the overall reataurant or ride capacity. The thing that creates wait time is when more people arrive to ride (or eat) then the ride (or restaurant) can serve in that timeframe. FP helps to relieve the average wait time by spreading demand over the entire day.
As a seasoned WDW visitor, certainly you are used to people utilizing the FP line. As such, I'm at a loss why they would bug you if you were in the SB line for a ride when you just used FP on three other rides.
No one is given special treatment under the current FP system. No one is expected to be given special treatment under the new FP system.
Again, I have no clue why you get frustrated by other people using a free service that you yourself take advantage of. I am at a total loss.
Newbies who don't actually know what FP is might get frustrated. However, the beauty of FP+ in this regard is two-fold. First, many of these newbies will get educated (and prereserved) on the front end by the Disney mailings and travel agent services. Second, by expanding FP's breadth more people will come into contact with FP+ and gain an understanding of it. It won't be something that they only see during their long wait for a relatively few rides.
Two thoughts: 1) There's no special treatment and 2) don't limit yourself to three. The T&C isn't.
Are you really taking the position that a restaurant that operates at capacity on reservations only has no demand?
Ignoring virtual queues and believing that average wait time is solely a function of how many people attempt to ride a ride versus the ride's capacity ignores the point of FP.
The real difference between restaurant reservations and rides is that the service time at a restaurant has much variation where it is a known quantity on a ride. No one orders the fancy desert that takes thirty minutes to prepare. As such, rides can be scheduled pretty well.
Imagine a ride that has a standard capacity of 1000 guests per day. Without FP, guests hop in line whenever they arrive at the ride. In the morning, few people get in line. Some people ride mulitple times and some cars go out empty. In the afternoon, loads of people show up, overwhelming the period capacity of the ride and creating a long wait time that doesn't clear for a considerable period after people stop hitting the line in bulk. In the evening, fewer people show up allowing the afternoon backlog to clear somewhat.
That same ride with FP spreads half or more of that capacity out over the entire day, resulting in fewer empty cars in the morning and shorter (read faster) SB lines in the afternoon. The higher you go with the FP percentage, the shorter the SB line becomes even though it moves slower. It doesn't move slower in the same ratio as the SB/FP ratio transfer because you've also established a one ride/one FP rule that reduces the demand (in guest/rides) for the ride.
luv
Well-Known Member
I don't know if it is possible to know this yet, but these long-range Bluetooth thingies and RF chips...are they small? Will we be able to know where they are inside these bands?
If I have to use a band, I'd like to chop it up and stick it on a key chain. So it would be nice if I knew where to cut...or at least be able to find the stuff inside the first one so I could go get a second band and know where to cut that one.
And @englanddg - I admit to my stupidity! I don't know what these things are. So, yes, I have to call the help desk, lol!
If I have to use a band, I'd like to chop it up and stick it on a key chain. So it would be nice if I knew where to cut...or at least be able to find the stuff inside the first one so I could go get a second band and know where to cut that one.
And @englanddg - I admit to my stupidity! I don't know what these things are. So, yes, I have to call the help desk, lol!
englanddg
One Little Spark...
It was a random snark on my part...
I'll be the first to admit this is at the edge of my knowledge base. But, I do somewhat keep up with the state of the tech in this respect (but again, am far from an expert).
Well, bluetooth requires power. I suspect they are using Bluetooth LE, running on a small battery contained in the upper portion of the band (I would suspect). Certainly, as was demonstrated about converting an adult band to a child band, the outer portion of the band is not utilized at all.
Without holding one, it's really hard to guess how they distributed the electronics.
LE has limited range (around 150 feet, as I recall), so if they are using that (which I strongly suspect they are, otherwise you would constantly need to "charge" your bracelets), then they have to have receptors all over the place! But, the chips are very small. Here is a TI model...it measures 6 mm x 6 mm.
RFID chips can be very small, and don't require a power source of their own (the power is supplied by the reader, not the chip as it's not a transmitter). Around the size of a grain of rice. Think about those identification chips you can have put in your pet that have been around for years. That's RFID.
So, inside that casing, they at least have a very small RFID chip embedded, a bluetooth chip, and a small battery. I would suspect it's all at the flat part at the top, but that's just my guess.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
That's good to hear I miss it. Will it be on Channel Four?
Yes, Channel 4, 40mins long, later this year.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
Did you ever see the US pilot for the show? It was awful...
It's on youtube if you search for it.