Discussion about how paid Fastpass will work

[Waters Back Side]

The only way I'd ever consider paying for DPA if it came to WDW with the amount I pay for my family of 5 every year at Disney is this...

I'll throw down $1000. For the week of my stay....I can walk on ANY ride any time of day. From open to close. Now I can plan or not plan. Now I can wake up early or show up late. Now I can avoid lines on all attractions.

$1000..7 days of park tickets. Unlimited line skipping. I'm occupying 7 nights in your resort during a peak week. I'm paying for 5 adults with two 11 year olds and a 14 year old you consider adults. Take it or leave it.

 

[SSH]

That only goes so far though, people who kept their job are spending their entertainment money from this year and last year. Eventually all the 2020 money will be spent and everyone will finally realize the inflation that has happened in travel, food, and home supplies. I continue to expect an economic downturn in the near future, P/E ratios are way out of wack on stocks, there is no where to go but down. I don’t think Disney is going to escape this one scot free like they did in 2008.

I agree...it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when - this level is not sustainable indefinitely. I've canceled several trips this year in light of the unreasonable price gouging I'm seeing (not just at WDW) and will patiently bide my time.

Once the "travel revenge" calms down a bit and people are tapped out, perhaps companies will come back down a bit closer to earth and toss out a few reasonable promos/deals. And then, I'll happily crack open the wallet and spend, spend, spend.

Will. Not. Pay. stupidly high prices for decreased benefits.
Good things come to those who wait.

 

[SSH]

Here is my question how many people are going to actually take advantage of this new system. So if the rumor is true that Deluxe and DVC resorts are getting an EMH wouldn't it make more sense to chunk that extra money into staying at a Deluxe resort ? We are DVC people who usually stay 5 nights on points and then another 3 nights at a moderate but if this EMH comes through we will stay our entire trip at a Deluxe to utilize EMH. We aren't in the park all day people and prefer the late afternoon night time hours so we really enjoy night time EMH's. I will be honest this pay for individual rides seems a little dirty to me. I get it other parks do it but they don't sell themselves all inclusive resorts eithers. You know a magical place away from the real world.

As I was reading this, I got to thinking: it's funny - we're almost full circle. In the '70s, you got a small book of tics - A-E good on individual rides. Of course, all the good rides were "E"s and we ran out of those fast! Back in line most parents would go - to buy more E tics. The old system wasn't about front-of-the-line access, but the whole concept of "pay per ride" is similar.

Back then, you at least got the initial book of tics with your park admission - then paid per ride for whatever else you wanted. Much like initial 3 FPs - then pay for more.

 

[Jrb1979]

I agree...it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when - this level is not sustainable indefinitely. I've canceled several trips this year in light of the unreasonable price gouging I'm seeing (not just at WDW) and will patiently bide my time.

Once the "travel revenge" calms down a bit and people are tapped out, perhaps companies will come back down a bit closer to earth and toss out a few reasonable promos/deals. And then, I'll happily crack open the wallet and spend, spend, spend.

Will. Not. Pay. stupidly high prices for decreased benefits.
Good things come to those who wait.

Some places are treating their pass holders good. My local Cedar Fair park has extended my pass til next year so I am getting a year free.

 

[billb]

I’m tired of the old thread constantly veering off into free vs paid Fastpass. Look, the industry standard is a paid option, we all knew Disney would go there eventually. This thread is going to assume it’s happening, and is not, I repeat not, to discuss if it’s a good idea to go from free to paid. I instead want to discuss why I think DLP’s premier access at WDW will be a disaster. To start the conversation with like minded individuals I will repost my thoughts that previously go hurried in that thread:


I can’t read this thread meltdown in its entirety, so I apologize if this has been mentioned before, I am not going to debate the merits of free vs paid FP. I instead want to focus on why I think premier access is not going to work at WDW, mainly by comparing it to other North American Theme Park offerings.

Ok first let’s guess on the price, 8 euros is roughly $10 based on the exchange rate. While WDW is likely to be more expensive I’m going to give PA the benefit of the doubt and make the starting price $9.99 my gut feeling is the top rate will be double that, $19.99. Let’s average that price at $15 for simplicity.

Ok what does that buy you? It buys you essentially a Fastpass, a ticket to come back later during a time you can’t pick (potentially hours later) during a set interval and wait in potentially a 30 min line once (assuming it’s used as much as FP now.)

The only park that offers something similar is Six Flags with their Flash Pass. The base model grants you a device where you can select a line and have your virtual queue wait for you 75% whatever the wait is for the ride (upcharges reduce that time by 50% and 90%) at your time you will have a <15 min wait at the ride. The price for the bronze flash pass at the chains flagship park (Magic Mountain) starts at $60, and Sat July 10 is $75 which I assume is the ceiling price (Saturday in the summer.). Obviously $75>$15, but I think even the most inept guest is likely to ride >6 rides in a day thus not only do you have to wait less time in a virtual queue you get a “discount rate on the whole day.”

Sea World/Busch Gardens has a punch card system that allows you a ride on every ride that offers quick queue (anytime you want) for a similar rate.

Cedar Fair and Universal offer a pass that allows you to use the Fastlane/Express pass queue unlimited times during the day. Cedar Fair’s flagship park Cedar Point charges $101-$169 for this privilege. To get to $15 a ride you have to ride 12 rides, very likely for an average guest. Universals 2 park unlimited ranges from $101-$329. 22 rides to get to $15 a ride, doable but only for warriors but even if you don’t hit all the rides the flexibility and unlimited access has tangible benefits.

As you can see, Disney’s Premier Access is more expensive, more restrictive, less user friendly, and feels more like a money grab (constantly having to purchase this anytime you want to use it for each ride) then any system in the United States and it has the additional handicap of being introduced to replace something that was free.

This is going to seriously hurt the brand, perhaps permanently and be widely unpopular and prone to user error; in short a disaster.

They should have brought Maxpass East or mimicked one of their competitors, I don’t think Americans are going to accept this.

REMEMBER IN THIS THREAD WE ASSUME FREE FASTPASS IS NOT COMING BACK AND WILL NOT DEBATE THE MERITS OF THAT DECISION. This is to discuss how paid Fastpass will appear at WDW.

A few years ago we stayed at Yatch Club. On Club level you were allowed to purchase Three Fast Passes Per Day for one individual for 50 US Dollars. This was on top of the three you automatically receive. You also selected ALL your Fast Passes 180 days out.

 

[CntrlFlPete]

As I was reading this, I got to thinking: it's funny - we're almost full circle. In the '70s, you got a small book of tics - A-E good on individual rides. Of course, all the good rides were "E"s and we ran out of those fast! Back in line most parents would go - to buy more E tics. The old system wasn't about front-of-the-line access, but the whole concept of "pay per ride" is similar.

Back then, you at least got the initial book of tics with your park admission - then paid per ride for whatever else you wanted. Much like initial 3 FPs - then pay for more.

I keep thinking it would be great to go back to tickets for rides, that would put it on Disney to increase ride capacity in order to make more $$ off of folks. I mean back then $5 got you into the park (only MK in those days) -- they also had a keys to the world program where during show times your ticket book was all 'E' tickets -- my parents taught me early in life to buy a C ticket and not waste an E on it.

 

[KrzyKtty]

A few years ago we stayed at Yatch Club. On Club level you were allowed to purchase Three Fast Passes Per Day for one individual for 50 US Dollars. This was on top of the three you automatically receive. You also selected ALL your Fast Passes 180 days out.

Yup, before COVID, that was the entire reason we were looking into Club Level. Now we are probably going to skip Club Level, and use the money saved to book a VIP Tour instead.

 

[cat2dragons]

I've been going to WDW since 1974. I've waited in lines no longer than an hour everytime I have visited, before FastPass and after. Now that I am older and most speculation seems to point to the paid system covering the "thrill rides", I won't even bother with the paid system as I am not interested in riding those rides much anymore and my body can't handle some of the various physical forces as well. The body can't adjust as fast as it ages.
Now, IF it is offered as a discount or free perk for staying at one of the deluxe resorts, I will probably take advantage of it for my child or any future grandchildren.
Of course, like everything else in life, there are exceptions. Again, IF a favorite ride is on the list, and the wait is a couple hours, I will use my Disney CC points to pay for the attraction. Then it is "free" since that money was spent months ago on a non-disney, household need/want.
I know this is not directly answering the original thread, but this is my take on it.

 

[John park hopper]

So, I pay the admission to get into the parks which entitles me to ride the attractions. However, because Disney allows the place to get so over crowded if I want to ride the rides in a timely fashion and not spent most of my day standing in lines I can pay extra for something I already paid for. What scam Disney.

 

[Jrb1979]

So, I pay the admission to get into the parks which entitles me to ride the attractions. However, because Disney allows the place to get so over crowded if I want to ride the rides in a timely fashion and not spent most of my day standing in lines I can pay extra for something I already paid for. What scam Disney.

I don't understand this argument. I'm guessing most don't go to regional parks much as almost every park does that. I do get it when people say Disney WAS different but that was the old Disney before Chapek.

It's funny cause I'm in the minority who welcomes a paid system. Mainly cause it will limit the amount of people using it as many won't pay for it.

 

[KrzyKtty]

So, I pay the admission to get into the parks which entitles me to ride the attractions. However, because Disney allows the place to get so over crowded if I want to ride the rides in a timely fashion and not spent most of my day standing in lines I can pay extra for something I already paid for. What scam Disney.

I also do not really get this argument. I don't get where people claim Disney is letting their parks get overcrowded as some semblance of personal choice. They either keep selling ticket prices and allow as many people in as they can and maintain current profits, or they severely increased the ticket price while cutting back the admittance rate to maintain current profits. Either way a whole lot of people are going to whine. They're either going to whine they spend this much money and have to wait in line for an hour, or they're going to whine that the cost to go is so incredibly expensive now that they can't get in. The fact is Disney is now a publicly traded company and their profits are directly tied to their shareholders. The concept of we don't need to make that last million dollars because we're going to be nice and maintain crowd control just isn't a thing with capitalism. That's not how this economy works.

 

[SteveAZee]

So, I pay the admission to get into the parks which entitles me to ride the attractions. However, because Disney allows the place to get so over crowded if I want to ride the rides in a timely fashion and not spent most of my day standing in lines I can pay extra for something I already paid for. What scam Disney.

There is some irony here... that if the crowds are low, then Disney makes less money at the gate and people have shorter lines for attractions. As the crowd size increases, more revenue at the gate AND they charge people to skip the lines created by all the people there, perhaps with dynamic pricing... so the more people they let in, the more money they can make on paid fast pass per person.

 

[flynnibus]

They either keep selling ticket prices and allow as many people in as they can and maintain current profits, or they severely increased the ticket price while cutting back the admittance rate to maintain current profits

these are not the only ways to make money….

notice disney tracks avg spending per day as a key metric… not gate revenue?

 

[KrzyKtty]

these are not the only ways to make money….

notice disney tracks avg spending per day as a key metric… not gate revenue?

I get that those are not the only ways to make money, Disney will utilize all of the ways to make money, because their entire purposes to make as much money as possible for their shareholders. That's just reality.

 

[flynnibus]

I get that those are not the only ways to make money, Disney will utilize all of the ways to make money, because their entire purposes to make as much money as possible for their shareholders. That's just reality.

their goal is to return the most VALUE to the shareholders- this doesn’t mean squeeze every drop of blood from the stone.
Leading a company purely by the profit line is like running a race staring at your feet. You’re gonna trip or miss what’s coming.

 

[KrzyKtty]

their goal is to return the most VALUE to the shareholders- this doesn’t mean squeeze every drop of blood from the stone.
Leading a company purely by the profit line is like running a race staring at your feet. You’re gonna trip or miss what’s coming.

Shareholders and stakeholders are two different things. And Disney clearly cares about the shareholders not so much about the stakeholders. Their goal is to return the most money to their shareholders. Value from their stakeholders has not been a thing for a long time.

 

[flynnibus]

Shareholders and stakeholders are two different things. And Disney clearly cares about the shareholders not so much about the stakeholders. Their goal is to return the most money to their shareholders. Value from their stakeholders has not been a thing for a long time.

shareholders gain from either appreciation or dividends. All appreciation is based on the belief of what the company will be “in the future”.

it’s all based on what people believe the company will be… delivering profit growth is just ONE way to drive that belief in the market that the stock will appreciate. It’s a means of growing assets and showing the health of the business. It is not the sole thing that matters - its just one of the more simplistic measures people use to track a business.

the mindset that a company must only care about driving profits and “That’s capitalism”is a gross simplification that is wrong on so many levels. Boards are not mandated to drive profits - they are mandated to best represent the interest of the shareholders and drive the value of their investments.

which is why tesla is a thing and their shareholder growth dwarfs others - all while profits are still second fiddle to the company’s insistence on investment in its longer term strategy at the expense of profits now. And the market believes the plan is paying off. Hence their share valuation - and the shareholders gain in value.

 

[KrzyKtty]

shareholders gain from either appreciation or dividends. All appreciation is based on the belief of what the company will be “in the future”.

it’s all based on what people believe the company will be… delivering profit growth is just ONE way to drive that belief in the market that the stock will appreciate. It’s a means of growing assets and showing the health of the business. It is not the sole thing that matters - its just one of the more simplistic measures people use to track a business.

the mindset that a company must only care about driving profits and “That’s capitalism”is a gross simplification that is wrong on so many levels. Boards are not mandated to drive profits - they are mandated to best represent the interest of the shareholders and drive the value of their investments.

which is why tesla is a thing and their shareholder growth dwarfs others - all while profits are still second fiddle to the company’s insistence on investment in its longer term strategy at the expense of profits now. And the market believes the plan is paying off. Hence their share valuation - and the shareholders gain in value.

I don't disagree with anything you said about. However the idea of American capitalism is profit is king. Tesla is really an outlier. I do wish Disney was more the way you say, but it's just not going to be that way. The idea of American capitalism is profit is king, whether that's right or wrong is a completely different debate.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't disagree with anything you said about. However the idea of American capitalism is profit is king. Tesla is really an outlier.

It is not. You can name any number of businesses that are trying to establish something else… like market penetration, customer growth, asset libraries, could go on and on.

its why we categorize companies like “growth” vs mature, etc.. different companies have different strategies of how they are growing value of their business and how they will return value to its shareholders. Some will focus on steady dividends, etc.

The argument they must always maximize profit as a justification for behavior is just urban myth parroted over and over.

 

[spock8113]

Greedy and predictably disappointing. Ivy League Theme Park with Country Club financial exclusivity, this IS their goal.
We used to make a point of going to Disney, now with they stacking costs we make a point to NOT go to Disney.
It is no longer worth it and NOT "Affordable Family Fun."