DHS Soundstage 1 Renovation - Toy Storia Mania expansion

flynnibus

Premium Member
I'm sorry but I just don't agree. A single additional family friendly ride at DHS is not going to impact wait times at TSMM at all

Don't discount the time dimension. Even if 'Jill' still wants to ride TSMM.. by shifting WHEN Jill attempts to ride.. you alter the system. Waits are about demand around a moment of time. Distracting "Jill" so she and 3k other people don't run to TSMM as the first thing to do in the park will alter the waits.

Distributing demand has a big influence on resulting waits.

of course if you say the # of guests who want TSMM far far far exceeds any possible way to fit them.. then demand will never really shift. For every shifted customer, if there are 3 more lined up and ready to fill that void.. the impact will not really be seen. But its my personal belief that excess isn't that overwelming and that other diversions would have a notable impact. We don't have the raw numbers to play with.. but we've seen it elsewhere so I'm comfortable with the theory. :) YMMV
 

Blueliner

Well-Known Member
I wasn't arguing they were. They're clearly here for another reason. No they're not gonna come out just for a moved frozen celebration and added track. But, that doesn't mean those things aren't also happening.

That would be my best guess. My theory is: a) the permit covers a project to increase TSMM capacity in an area adjacent to the current ride (but maybe with a separate entrance, loading area, etc.); and b) the executives' on-site visit is to discuss a related, but more comprehensive expansion (maybe tied in part to Soundstage 1, but more likely tied to the closing of the Backlot Tour).
 

PhilharMagician

Well-Known Member
TheVisionarySoul said:
Completely BS. The only addition to the building that was made was for Midway Mania's maintenance facility, and that is on the side, not the back. The ride is contained entirely in the old soundstages.

Furthermore, I can confirm that this permit is for an additional track for Toy Story Mania. The current ride will be converted to FP+ Only.

... Guys, I'm new to speculation. Are we skipping over this because we don't trust this person?

The first statement is correct. The addition to the North end was for maintenance and you can see in the layout posted in this thread the track into the maintenance area.

The second statement? I can say it sounds plausible.
 

kap91

Well-Known Member
What I've concluded from my observations is an organization focusing on the bottom line. Something is in need? Ok, but only if the bottom line allows it. Someone sees excess and says "see.. they spend money!" - but that is from another bucket when it's a new attraction being built.. entirely different mindset and leeway vs the guys trying to balance the parks' operating budgets every 2-4 weeks. This is the company that shutters fully functioning locations to idle them to save operating costs.. or shutters things rather than invest to modernize. Those are tells of a company that puts the bottom line metrics FIRST.. everything else is 'if it fits'.

Reduced line waits do not drive additional revenue on their own.. they only help save revenue if your customers are so ed they are leaving. That's why I have a hard time thinking they would spend what I imagine would spend 20,30+ ?? million dollars to just reduce TSMM waits because of customer satisfaction scores. That would be a huge spend just for survey results. Seems disproportionate to their normal MO.

It reeks of the company that does things only when they absolutely must.. or if someone can argue it will pay for itself. Doing it for pure customer sat doesn't seem to be in the deck anymore.

Well I think the last time any company did anything for pure customer satisfaction was when Walt was still alive.

I really do think though that you're mostly seeing the organization largely as it was under the Eisner era and it's residual effects. I'm by no means claiming that WDW has brilliant management that only cares about guest experience, but almost all the things you talk about I see as leftovers from that time. Shuttered locations? Nearly nothing new has been shuttered since that time. Sure stuff that was shuttered during that time remains shuttered, but for the most part they actually operates seasonally or are used for events vs not at all. (I'm thinking of the carousel of progress or diamond horseshoe which both sat completely unopened for years outside of perhaps one week a year if that vs now where carousel is open all the time and diamond horsehoe (while with in show :-() is open maybe 1/4-1/2 the year. It takes a really long time to right a ship in that condition, especially when the people left in charge aren't much better than what was there before. But we see an increased (almost ridiculous) refurbishment schedule, we saw the fantasyland expansion, see the huge investments being made across the resort in infrastructure, and we see what's being done at the other Disney resorts.

I do think WDW sees guest feedback (as measured in surveys, clearly not fan message boards) as a bottom line metric because they want to make sure people have no reason not to come back. They rely heavily on middle class families who need their fix and come back every year as well as international tourists who tell all their friends about it. Since their audience is largely is not really expanding to new demographics, and we see them trying to milk the current demo for all it's worth - part of that milking is ensuring they want to come back for more.

And perhaps it's just possible some executive woke up and looked at DHS and said to themselves, "holy crap this park really is a waste of space. Think of all the extra people we could get in here if we knocked all this stuff down"
 

Rteetz

Well-Known Member
The additional track will be the main, standby ride? That doesn't make much sense to me. Why wouldn't the current part be standby and the additional be FP+?
Someone mentioned before that this would be the case if it happened because FP makes up for 70% of the capacity.
 

kap91

Well-Known Member
Someone mentioned before that this would be the case if it happened because FP makes up for 70% of the capacity.
This is purely speculation, but probably cause the new one will (suspicion) only be one track and the original has two. Thus more capacity for MM+ Which seems reasonable to believe given that the MM+ availability sells out a lot.

EDIT: whoops quoted the wrong post. Oh well. You get my point.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
Everyone keeps talking about how Disney got caught flat footed with the success of Frozen and they didn't have anything pre-postured to captitalize on it's success. With that in mind, my guess, and it's just a guess, I haven't seen, heard, read anything, is that this is Nemo related. Last time I checked Finding Dory is slated to be released in June 2016. I'm guessing their banking on that being a huge hit. Wouldn't it be nice if for once they could show some synergy and launch a movie and it's related ride at the same time? I know Epcot has the Sea's and all, but we all agree it's attrocious. Maybe they're starting to right the ship.

Using that concept, though, maybe an Incredibles attractions since it too has a sequel in the works.
 

noidwork

Member
Using that concept, though, maybe an Incredibles attractions since it too has a sequel in the works.

Could be, but going back to page 1, one of the permits expired in September of 2016. The timing seems to match up very well with Dory. Plus, Nemo is #5 on the list of highest grossing animated films, while Incredibles is at #17. If Disney were going to try to synchronize rides with very popular movie releases, this seems like the perfect time to try it.
 

kap91

Well-Known Member
Now if we could just get them to wander over to Epcot to look at the Imagination pavilion while in WDW....
I guarantee you imagination will get its justice. Unfortunately I don't think it’ll be until after all the studios plans and avatar happen. I would have at least crossed my fingers for sooner (2015 or 16) on a long shot but I think the money being spent on frozen has probably drained any chance of that happening considering how remote it was to begin with. I bet 2022, 2025 at the latest.
 

kap91

Well-Known Member
I hate this idea.
But dammit....I trust your info.
Me too, unless it changes FP+ capacity so much it allows selection like at the MK, where it can almost be done on a lark 5 minutes before you decide to ride. In that case, go right ahead.
 

willtravel

Well-Known Member
I guarantee you imagination will get its justice. Unfortunately I don't think it’ll be until after all the studios plans and avatar happen. I would have at least crossed my fingers for sooner (2015 or 16) on a long shot but I think the money being spent on frozen has probably drained any chance of that happening considering how remote it was to begin with. I bet 2022, 2025 at the latest.
I am afraid that the justice will be closure of pavilion.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I really do think though that you're mostly seeing the organization largely as it was under the Eisner era and it's residual effects

Just because the ball was set in motion back then - I don't give them any slack for failing to stand up and stop it - especially since they've had changes in leadership. Instead you have people more than willing to stick to the status quo... which to me is vulgar in a company that supposedly is innovative and creative focused.

Nearly nothing new has been shuttered since that time

The long drawn out refurbs which allow them to idle attractions? (Nemo Subs) The trimming of operating hours... It's the land of a 1000 cuts.. carefully orchestrated to avoid looking like a larger thing.

And yes, they have brought back some that were on the ropes (CoP) but just because you get 1 out of 5 right on a test.. you don't get an A - you still got an F.

But we see an increased (almost ridiculous) refurbishment schedule, we saw the fantasyland expansion, see the huge investments being made across the resort in infrastructure, and we see what's being done at the other Disney resorts.

The refurbs still lag behind because of the reduced upkeep INBETWEEN the refurbs. Again, doing something 1 out of 5 times doesn't get you credit for doing it. While the work being done seems massive, it's also because it's a massive piece to keep up to date. We see volume of activity - not coverage. And projects like NFL added how much attraction capacity to a park that was woefully behind? I've never been one of those "Disney doesn't do anything!" guys.. but I still believe they are far below the line in what is needed.

I do think WDW sees guest feedback (as measured in surveys, clearly not fan message boards) as a bottom line metric because they want to make sure people have no reason not to come back

I'm sure they see it as important because someone probably made it a METRIC they track and are graded on. Instead of actually ensuring the end game... they play a game of watching the number and manipulating the number. Where are the survey takers after the @$%% hits the fan on a big night? Oh wait.. you'll find them out in mass when a new attraction is opened tho..

My company does it.. they supposedly tie everyone's compensation to a cust sat score of 1-5 they track within two decimial places. And its all complete and utter crap.

They rely heavily on middle class families who need their fix and come back every year as well as international tourists who tell all their friends about it. Since their audience is largely is not really expanding to new demographics, and we see them trying to milk the current demo for all it's worth - part of that milking is ensuring they want to come back for more.

Ahh.. but you miss how they address this without needing customer loyalty. Expand your market. They invest in attracting the South Americans... they invest in bringing in the conventions.. the sports teams... Then you add in things like RunDisney, the ever expanding number of F&W variations, etc. THAT is how they address needing to increase guest counts without needing to move an individual customer from an 'ok visit to a wonderful visit'. It's diminishing returns to polish one customer... but if you can bring in 3 more for the same cost... you win!

And perhaps it's just possible some executive woke up and looked at DHS and said to themselves, "holy crap this park really is a waste of space. Think of all the extra people we could get in here if we knocked all this stuff down"

They can't be as engaged and interested in customer satisfaction as you state and also be oblivious to situation in the park. It would have been in their face for ages. Let's be real.. just like DCA... the park was doing 'enough' to let it keep doing its thing.

Do we really believe American Idol was closed because of customer feedback? Or do we realize it was a show that included lots of high cost labor.. that wasn't pulling in the numbers... and for all we know could have been up for a licensing renewal they didn't want to take.

If TRUE customer sat was really up at the top of the list... they would have put a bullet in the head of so many things so long ago. But customer sat is now a METRIC - not a sentiment.
 

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